Supreme Court gives green light to law that could ban TikTok

[LM117]

The unsigned opinion had no dissents.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/tiktok-ban-supreme-court-ruling-bytedance-sell-rcna187150

[hotdogPi]

I don't quite understand why people are switching to Rednote, another Chinese company. Won't it get banned, too?

[vdeane]

If the Congress were actually concerned about data, then they should regulate that, because nothing is stopping China from getting data from the same data brokers that Facebook, Twitter, etc. sell to.  And if Congress were actually concerned about China getting data, then this just backfired horribly, because everyone just migrated to RedNote, which unlike TikTok, is actually a Chinese company.

[Max Rockatansky]

Sweet, my wife won't be able to bother me anymore with videos about what people think drones actually are.

[kphoger]

I haven't been following this, because I have nothing to do with TikTok.

But it does seem at first glance that the bill's opponents are calling it a free speech issue, whereas its proponents are worried that the Chinese government would control what content is seen by users—which sounds a lot like a free speech issue to me.

[1995hoo]

The main thing that interests me is what ramifications it will have for the Washington Capitals. They have a TikTok patch on their road uniforms as the sweater sponsor. (The home uniforms are sponsored by Caesars Sportsbook, but NHL rules prohibit advertising sports betting on the road uniforms.)

[oscar]

I don't quite understand why people are switching to Rednote, another Chinese company. Won't it get banned, too?

With the way the law is written, at least the ones that are also owned by ByteDance. The law itself designates all Bytedance affiliates as "foreign adversary controlled applications" covered by the law. Other applications based directly or indirectly in mainland China can be designated "foreign adversary controlled applications", but that's not automatic and might take at least 270 days to take effect.

Would be safer for TikTokers to migrate to a U.S. company like Facebook/Instagram/Google____, even if they are also disgusting.

I don't do social media. My comments above draw on today's Supreme Court decision, https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-656_ca7d.pdf, which I read within minutes after it came out this morning.

[1995hoo]

.... My comments above draw on today's Supreme Court decision, https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-656_ca7d.pdf, which I read within minutes after it came out this morning.

I did as well. I was amused by the reference to Mr. Justice Frankfurter's observation about the need to be cautious so as not to "embarrass the future." It made me think of the early 1980s opinion in which the Court constantly used the term "VTRs"—"Video Tape Recorders"—to refer to the machines we all know as "VCRs."

[hbelkins]

The main thing that interests me is what ramifications it will have for the Washington Capitals. They have a TikTok patch on their road uniforms as the sweater sponsor. (The home uniforms are sponsored by Caesars Sportsbook, but NHL rules prohibit advertising sports betting on the road uniforms.)

What's the logic in that?

I haven't been following this, because I have nothing to do with TikTok.

But it does seem at first glance that the bill's opponents are calling it a free speech issue, whereas its proponents are worried that the Chinese government would control what content is seen by users—which sounds a lot like a free speech issue to me.

It's not the worry about the ChiComs controlling what is seen, but the misuse of user data by said ChiCom government. I don't have TikTok, but from what I understand, you sign away your rights to your firstborn child when you agree to their terms of service. In other words, you are giving all kinds of information that's on your phone to the ChiComs.

Would be safer for TikTokers to migrate to a U.S. company like Facebook/Instagram/Google____, even if they are also disgusting.

That's what I don't understand about the allure of TikTok. What does it do that you can't do on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, X, or any other platform that allows video streaming or video uploads?

My understanding of the law is that it doesn't ban TikTok itself, or access to the service by current users, but it bans the app's future availability on app stores. So if you download the app by Sunday, you're good and can still continue to use it.

The fact that ByteDance wasn't willing to sell TikTok to an American corporation for boatloads of money tells me that there was indeed nefarious intent regarding ByteDance's use of the data it acquires from users' cellphones.

[1995hoo]

The main thing that interests me is what ramifications it will have for the Washington Capitals. They have a TikTok patch on their road uniforms as the sweater sponsor. (The home uniforms are sponsored by Caesars Sportsbook, but NHL rules prohibit advertising sports betting on the road uniforms.)

What's the logic in that?

....

My understanding, based on something I read in the Athletic when the Caps first announced the Caesars sponsorship, is that the league is concerned about not all states and provinces having the same laws on sports betting. By definition, a team ordinarily wears its home uniforms in a single jurisdiction—the location of its home arena (in this case, the District of Columbia, where sports betting is legal and is the subject of an incessant parade of TV ads). But it wears its road uniforms in a great variety of places (in this case, 18 states and 5 provinces). From what I understand, the concern is that if a state or province doesn't allow sports betting, or doesn't allow advertising on sports betting, it would be problematic for a team to wear a patch identifying a sportsbook as a uniform sponsor when it plays in such a jurisdiction. Hence the restriction.

[kernals12]

I'm guessing that someone in Silicon Valley will come up with an app functionally identical to TikTok faster than you can say "Jack Robinson"

[Roadgeekteen]

Ban might not even happen. 47 doesn't want it to happen and he takes office Monday.

[kphoger]

I haven't been following this, because I have nothing to do with TikTok.

But it does seem at first glance that the bill's opponents are calling it a free speech issue, whereas its proponents are worried that the Chinese government would control what content is seen by users—which sounds a lot like a free speech issue to me.

It's not the worry about the ChiComs controlling what is seen, but the misuse of user data by said ChiCom government. I don't have TikTok, but from what I understand, you sign away your rights to your firstborn child when you agree to their terms of service. In other words, you are giving all kinds of information that's on your phone to the ChiComs.

... but ...

The Justice Department had raised two key issues in defending the law: that the Chinese government could exert control over what content users see in order to influence public opinion, and that it could collect sensitive data on millions of American users.

[DTComposer]

Would be safer for TikTokers to migrate to a U.S. company like Facebook/Instagram/Google____, even if they are also disgusting.

That's what I don't understand about the allure of TikTok. What does it do that you can't do on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, X, or any other platform that allows video streaming or video uploads?

It's less about what it can or cannot do - but what it does do, it does better. And it helps that it's not owned by aspiring oligarchs.

My understanding of the law is that it doesn't ban TikTok itself, or access to the service by current users, but it bans the app's future availability on app stores. So if you download the app by Sunday, you're good and can still continue to use it.

Yes, but since it can't/won't be updated, as OS's are updated the app will eventually become unusable.

The fact that ByteDance wasn't willing to sell TikTok to an American corporation for boatloads of money tells me that there was indeed nefarious intent regarding ByteDance's use of the data it acquires from users' cellphones.

ByteDance is not Chinese-owned or run. The company is owned jointly by non-Chinese investment groups, employees and the company's founder; three of the five Board members are American (and the other two aren't Chinese); and it's not headquartered in China (Santa Monica and Singapore). The data is stored on American soil.

That's not to say the people that do run it don't have nefarious intent with the data, but not any more so than any other corporation who does any significant portion of their business online. I think Zuckerberg has demonstrated much more "nefarious" intent than ByteDance. After all, Facebook started as a "hot-or-not" site, and his recent behavior seems to indicate he's reverting to form (or it's never changed, but he's no longer afraid of that being his public-facing persona).

If it were really about data security, then Congress would be focused on the many, many large American corporations who have had data breaches over the years.

https://techcrunch.com/2025/01/15/unitedhealth-hid-its-change-healthcare-data-breach-notice-for-months/

https://www.upguard.com/blog/biggest-data-breaches-us

I'm magnitudes of order more worried that Wells Fargo has allowed my Social Security number, PIN code, or other financial information leak out to a individual or small group of criminals than I am that a foreign government knows I like to watch short-form videos about giraffes, puppies, and musical theatre.

It's also about congressional hypocrisy - numerous politicians are in favor of the ban, in spite of being on the platform, and in several instances utilizing the app's ability to coalesce movements and trends to build a popular following (Jeff Johnson is one of the most egregious examples of this).

But IMO, it's mostly because TikTok, more than any of the other social media platforms, has demonstrated the ability to get non-corporate-based news (some relatively independent, others with agendas across the political spectrum) into the public discourse, to build communities among marginalized groups, and to show the potential to be an organizing space for change.

TikTok is a threat, not to individual American's data, but to the rich and powerful.

[kphoger]

My spit-ball opinion is that it's become a white elephant:  politicians don't want to ban it, but nobody wants to come forward and say they don't care about the Chinese government having our personal data and influencing elections, so they keep having to deal with it.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

My spit-ball opinion is that it's become a white elephant:  politicians don't want to ban it, but nobody wants to come forward and say they don't care about the Chinese government having our personal data and influencing elections, so they keep having to deal with it.

Given how many people have been flocking to a competitor app that doesn't even have an English version and have led to people starting to learn some Mandarin in order to use it properly, which I'm sure is what the US government wanted far less than this ongoing TikTok migraine, clearly people don't seem to care.

Not to drag too much politics into this, but I think there is a fairly stark discrepancy in how older Americans and younger Americans view China, with older ones being more conditioned to view China as an enemy, and younger people not necessarily embracing China but also not being interested in continuing the older generation's anti-CCP battles.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm a little lost on what TikTok is even about?  My wife hasn't given me a glowing assessment given what she sends me.  Can anyone expound what is actually good about the platform?

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I'm a little lost on what TikTok is even about?  My wife hasn't given me a glowing assessment given what she sends me.  Can anyone expound what is actually good about the platform?

It was kind of the spiritual successor to Vine, these short videos about basically any topics that you just roll through one to the next.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm a little lost on what TikTok is even about?  My wife hasn't given me a glowing assessment given what she sends me.  Can anyone expound what is actually good about the platform?

It was kind of the spiritual successor to Vine, these short videos about basically any topics that you just roll through one to the next.

That's it?  Can't you pretty much do the same thing on every other social media platform now? 

[DTComposer]

I'm a little lost on what TikTok is even about?  My wife hasn't given me a glowing assessment given what she sends me.  Can anyone expound what is actually good about the platform?

It was kind of the spiritual successor to Vine, these short videos about basically any topics that you just roll through one to the next.

That's it?  Can't you pretty much do the same thing on every other social media platform now? 

I've been on TikTok about three years now.
Compared to Instagram/Reels or YouTube Shorts, I find the interface to be more intuitive, and their algorithm both more accurate and more flexible to what I'm interested in. My understanding is that creators (I'm just a viewer) find a much higher level of engagement on TikTok than they do on other platforms.

Plus, it's not owned by an aspiring oligarch...yet.

[Molandfreak]

I'm a little lost on what TikTok is even about?  My wife hasn't given me a glowing assessment given what she sends me.  Can anyone expound what is actually good about the platform?

It was kind of the spiritual successor to Vine, these short videos about basically any topics that you just roll through one to the next.

That's it?  Can't you pretty much do the same thing on every other social media platform now? 

Yep. Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube all have a similar reel functionality built into their mobile apps. Maybe they introduced this after TikTok became popular, but still, I never saw the point. Maybe it's just a safe haven from relatives who use facebook and instagram.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm a little lost on what TikTok is even about?  My wife hasn't given me a glowing assessment given what she sends me.  Can anyone expound what is actually good about the platform?

You should post a short video of you and your wife talking about this to TikTok.

[Road Hog]

This all started, if you recall, when a bunch of TikTok K-pop stans decided to spoil Trump's first rally since the pandemic in Tulsa on 6/20/2020 by buying up all the tickets.

[thspfc]

I'm sure the logic of the ban is debatable at best, but regardless, the United States is a better place without TikTok in it.

[vdeane]

The fact that ByteDance wasn't willing to sell TikTok to an American corporation for boatloads of money tells me that there was indeed nefarious intent regarding ByteDance's use of the data it acquires from users' cellphones.

I feel like you'd be against a company being forced to be sold in most other circumstances.  Let's face it, if you built/owned a company, you might not want to sell.  Some people in business are in it because that's what they want to do and they take pride in their work, not just to make a quick buck and then cut and run.

My spit-ball opinion is that it's become a white elephant:  politicians don't want to ban it, but nobody wants to come forward and say they don't care about the Chinese government having our personal data and influencing elections, so they keep having to deal with it.

If they really didn't want to ban it, they could just say that the law was a bad way of accomplishing its stated goals, but that would require taking on Silicon Valley, which they don't want to do (I'm in agreement with the theory that the law was always intended as a Silicon Valley bailout after the younger generations decided to tell the US-based social media companies to go screw themselves).

But IMO, it's mostly because TikTok, more than any of the other social media platforms, has demonstrated the ability to get non-corporate-based news (some relatively independent, others with agendas across the political spectrum) into the public discourse, to build communities among marginalized groups, and to show the potential to be an organizing space for change.

TikTok is a threat, not to individual American's data, but to the rich and powerful.

Yep.  But the rich and powerful are also hypocrites - they want to take advantage of TikTok when it's in their favor and ban it when it's not.  It's why some politicians have flip-flopped on whether they support a ban or not over the past couple years.