What ever happened to the counterculture?

[bandit957]

Does the counterculture still exist?

It seems like the counterculture today consists of only one person (me). Or maybe a couple other people who I see from time to time. How has the media managed to suppress the counterculture so successfully?

I thought it was dwindling back when I was in college, when it seemed like a lot of people were using counterculture branding and bragged about being "EXTREME!!!" even though they had establishment ideas. But the real counterculture still existed to some extent, much more so than today. I thought things were even worse in the decade of the 2000s, but even then, the counterculture was still around to an extent.

But in the 2020s, it's gone. Completely.

Everyone just laps up every word they hear, see, or read without questioning it.

Where's the counterculture? Are they pooing?

[Max Rockatansky]

It because normalized and those people grew up.  Having things you value like family and a career tends make people more grounded.

[thspfc]

Social media happened. Any "counterculture" trend that resonates with people gets plastered all over the internet and before long, it's not counterculture anymore.

[Rothman]

There has to be a culture that the counterculture counters...

[GaryV]

Everyone just laps up every word they hear, see, or read without questioning it.

Have you been paying attention? That half the people take half of everything without question, and the other half of the people take the other half of everything?

[SEWIGuy]

Easy. There is no monolithic culture to counter.

[formulanone]

It because normalized and those people grew up.  Having things you value like family and a career tends make people more grounded.

For every group of individuals that thought they were going to change the world, one still tends to the cooperative farm in a small town in Vermont, one died for the cause, another one overdosed, two went to jail, three more found ascetic religion, seven went on to regret their decisions and work for a think tank designed to destroy that counterculture, and the other 98% found their ideals slowly gnashed by the gears of a well-oiled civilization (they probably joined out of boredom or a desire to get laid).

Does the counterculture still exist?

Of course it does, advertising just became too expensive.

There has to be a culture that the counterculture counters...

For almost every ___, there's an anti-___.

[Bobby5280]

Does the counterculture still exist?

Not really. The mediums used by the counterculture to spread their message 50+ years ago just don't exist like they did back then. Music, fashion, literature and movies were all very influential and helped spread that message to the general public. Now those outlets are mere shells of their former selves.

First, we have to acknowledge the widespread disappearance of retail stores that sold books, music and movies. A lot of people who shared the same interests would meet in those places. Now they're isolated and "meeting" online, which isn't the same.

The only thing I'll say about fashion is it's for rich people. It might try to promote some visual counterculture message. But the buyers of the product are about as not-counter as it gets.

50 years ago there were dozens of independent music labels and hundreds upon hundreds of independent radio stations willing to play lots of new stuff. That's not the case anymore. They've all been bought and sold again and again. Now a select few people up on high decide what gets played. Listener requests? Don't make me laugh. I can't listen to broadcast radio at all. It sucks everywhere. The same 10 songs are on infinite repeat for possibly years on end, punctuated by lots of annoying commercials. There is plenty of new music out there that is interesting, but you have to go well out of your way to find it. It's very difficult for new bands to break through. They already have to be a social media phenomenon before they can even get signed (and financially screwed by the big label).

Big companies who control what music gets distributed really don't like any music that has a message to it. They'll tolerate it to an extent in some genres, such as hip-hop. Far more acts in that genre rap about their own narcissism. Groups like Public Enemy and Rage Against the Machine are mostly relics of the past. There's lots of "edgy" music out there, but it's rarely political. Gotta maximize sales.

I used to be a big movie fan, but my movie-going habits have dropped off to almost nothing. I can go months at a time without visiting a cinema. It has been years since I have bought a movie on disc (I've never bought a digital download movie). So many movies these days are just unremarkable. One movie might be pretty good; but I very rarely ever want to watch it again, much less own a copy of it. We have all the damned sequels and re-makes. But then everything else is churned out of a plot beat-sheet library like clip art. Save the Cat! is the movie industry's screen-writing bible.

In the mid 1960's Hollywood was in deep financial trouble. Big budget, 3 hour long costume dramas weren't selling anymore. Acting styles were dated as hell. The movie industry had to do something. "Underground" film was gaining popularity. The Motion Picture Association of America launched its new ratings system and the old Hayes code was abandoned. That allowed Hollywood to go on its most innovative streak in the movie industry's history. They took chances on all kinds of movies, even ones that were overtly political. Not every movie had a happy ending either. Hits like The Godfather, The Exorcist and even Star Wars were products of this chance-taking attitude. Of course Star Wars is one of those blockbuster movies we can blame for how bland and predictable movies are now.

Today Hollywood doesn't take any chances at all. New movies play in the cinema for barely a month. Then they arrive on a given streaming service platform only to disappear in the abyss of the app's user interface. In the past I had a lot easier time finding movies to buy or rent in a retail store than I do having to fart around scrolling in some app.

Commercial cinemas are struggling to stay operational. Chains like AMC are closing under-performing locations right and left. A growing number of towns and suburbs are turning into "cinema deserts" -no first run theaters at all. If the cinema platform fails it will take down much of the rest of the movie industry. What is a movie if it doesn't play in theaters? A made-for-TV movie. Movie studios will get a lot smaller or just be folded into parent TV networks.

Book publishing is probably an even worse situation. Far fewer authors get published in physical print anymore. Some of that is due to so many retail book stores vanishing. So many writers have to use the e-book route and even self-publish. It's far more difficult for a talented new writer to get noticed than it was in the past.

I think there is a price to be paid for America's corporate-flavored decline of its popular culture (and counterculture). America used to win hearts and minds with our music, movies, etc. It was one form of "soft power." Now that our creative stuff just isn't all that good anymore our nation's influence overseas is waning.

[mgk920]

It could also be political counterculture, now blasting forth into the mainstream like it has been doing throughout history.

Mike

[Molandfreak]

A major part of countercultural media was shocking audiences. When a large part of the population literally believes in Qanon hogwash, there isn't a lot you can do to shock people.

[Bobby5280]

I wouldn't call the media's output of stuff, such as what they air on 24-hour cable "news" channels, culture or even counter-culture. It's nothing more than an emotional jerk-off for viewers. Anger pornography. I think an episode of WWE SmackDown has more cultural significance than that other crap.

[SEWIGuy]

50 years ago there were dozens of independent music labels and hundreds upon hundreds of independent radio stations willing to play lots of new stuff. That's not the case anymore.

There is all sorts of music out there than is played through Spotify. Who needs radio?

[Ted$8roadFan]

It's been homogenized.

[Bruce]

Hipsters were a close proxy in the 2000s/2010s, but then became the mainstream.

[vdeane]

Book publishing is probably an even worse situation. Far fewer authors get published in physical print anymore. Some of that is due to so many retail book stores vanishing. So many writers have to use the e-book route and even self-publish. It's far more difficult for a talented new writer to get noticed than it was in the past.

I've definitely noticed that books as a medium seem to no longer be all that significant anymore.  Back when I was young, it seemed like major book series like Harry Potter, Twilight, and the Hunger Games were gaining widespread popularity all the time.  I definitely don't hear about such things now.  When was the last time a major author or series became prominent via books?

Hipsters were a close proxy in the 2000s/2010s, but then became the mainstream.

I think it stands to reason that counterculture won't remain such forever.  Either it will become mainstream or it will wither and die as people move on.

[Rothman]

It's been homogenized.

And pasteurized.

[Bobby5280]

There is all sorts of music out there than is played through Spotify. Who needs radio?

Music is far less visible today from an advertising/marketing angle. The brick and mortar retail footprint is far smaller now. A JPEG thumbnail image of a band's album in some streaming app is not much of a substitute.

Many magazine publications have ended. The others that still exist (such as Rolling Stone) shrank in physical size (so they can fit on a Walmart shelf). MTV rarely plays music videos; I can't make sense why they still have a video music awards show. What the hell do they know about music anymore? 95% of the time they're playing repeats of reality TV show episodes.

The only "record stores" my town of 100,000 people has is the limited (and censored) selections of music in Walmart, Target and Sam's Club. And a bunch of the stuff they sell there is old music. I have an original LP pressing of Kill 'Em All by Metallica, which I bought when I was in high school. The same LP, brand new, is for sale at Walmart. Those small music departments in places like Walmart are far less capable of carrying other music-related merchandise, such as band t-shirts. Items like that were easier to buy at real brick and mortar music stores. Now if you want some band related merch to wear you gotta take your chances ordering it online.

Paid services like Spotify and Sirius|XM will give listeners a break from all the damned commercials that infect broadcast radio. They'll play a somewhat wider variety of music. But I can listen to a channel, such as Alt Nation on Sirius|XM and hear a lot of the same songs repeatedly. I have an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription that I use at work and at the gym. Their music "channels" and play lists are also pretty repetitive. But I can search out specific albums or songs from almost any artist and play them at will. However that takes a bit of work. It takes even more work to build up a really good play list.

I've definitely noticed that books as a medium seem to no longer be all that significant anymore.  Back when I was young, it seemed like major book series like Harry Potter, Twilight, and the Hunger Games were gaining widespread popularity all the time.  I definitely don't hear about such things now.  When was the last time a major author or series became prominent via books?

I couldn't answer that question. But I'm pretty sure it's quite a bit more difficult for a new author to break through and get published. If Stephen King was an age 20-something guy just starting out he probably wouldn't make it in today's publishing environment. That's not to say it was really easy back then. His first novel, Carrie got rejected by 30 different publishers before Doubleday took a chance in 1974. It's important to notice a lot more book publishers were in business back then. There are fewer around today. Also: manuscripts had to be physically type-written on paper and even in a certain industry standard format. Now it's easy for well-meaning publishers to get overwhelmed with thousands upon thousands of amateur-quality novels.

[SEWIGuy]

Music is far less visible today from an advertising/marketing angle. The brick and mortar retail footprint is far smaller now. A JPEG thumbnail image of a band's album in some streaming app is not much of a substitute.

Many magazine publications have ended. The others that still exist (such as Rolling Stone) shrank in physical size (so they can fit on a Walmart shelf). MTV rarely plays music videos; I can't make sense why they still have a video music awards show. What the hell do they know about music anymore? 95% of the time they're playing repeats of reality TV show episodes.

The only "record stores" my town of 100,000 people has is the limited (and censored) selections of music in Walmart, Target and Sam's Club. And a bunch of the stuff they sell there is old music. I have an original LP pressing of Kill 'Em All by Metallica, which I bought when I was in high school. The same LP, brand new, is for sale at Walmart. Those small music departments in places like Walmart are far less capable of carrying other music-related merchandise, such as band t-shirts. Items like that were easier to buy at real brick and mortar music stores. Now if you want some band related merch to wear you gotta take your chances ordering it online.

Paid services like Spotify and Sirius|XM will give listeners a break from all the damned commercials that infect broadcast radio. They'll play a somewhat wider variety of music. But I can listen to a channel, such as Alt Nation on Sirius|XM and hear a lot of the same songs repeatedly. I have an Amazon Music Unlimited subscription that I use at work and at the gym. Their music "channels" and play lists are also pretty repetitive. But I can search out specific albums or songs from almost any artist and play them at will. However that takes a bit of work. It takes even more work to build up a really good play list.

This just sounds like nostalgia more than a death of counter-culture thing.

[Bruce]

Good radio isn't dead, just scattered. KEXP is still humming along in Seattle and moved into a new space a few years back that hosts live shows and a record store. There's quite a few shops in and around Seattle that cater exclusively to physical music media.

[Bobby5280]

This just sounds like nostalgia more than a death of counter-culture thing.

The only counter-culture that exists today is underground. And it will probably go fully into hiding. The only thing that passes for "counter-culture" today is "influencers" online. They're a joke. Just about every so-called influencer is there to celebrate themselves and pester people to like and subscribe.

Good radio isn't dead, just scattered. KEXP is still humming along in Seattle and moved into a new space a few years back that hosts live shows and a record store. There's quite a few shops in and around Seattle that cater exclusively to physical music media.

Seattle hardly qualifies as being an average American town.

Most other smaller cities and towns aren't going to have brick and mortar record stores or radio stations whose local management and DJ's can actually choose the music they want to play.

In the 1990's when our local rock radio station (Z94) launched it was great. They played all sorts of rock music, listener requests, deep cuts, etc. The first time the station got sold the new owners threw their physical music library (LPs, reel to reel tapes, CDs, etc) into the garbage and replaced it with a media server with only about 10% of the music they had previously. They also fired several DJ's. When the station got sold again the new owners installed a newer server with even less music. And more people got fired. That radio station has changed hands another couple of times. Now the thing is pretty much automated. They have a manager and a couple local sales people to sell ads. But there is no real on-air talent. If they do have a local human being come in and record some bumpers it's just content to go in the automation queue. None of it is live. That's the reality across much of America.

Having a subscription to Spotify, Tidal, Sirius|XM or whatever is only a lesser evil. I can't stomach listening to local broadcast radio. But choosing to listen to streaming providers instead is going to speed up the outright demise of those local radio stations.

Some of this shit is happening to TV stations too. The Weather Channel is starting to decimate the local weather departments at many local TV stations. So far they're not firing our local weather crew in Lawton, which is located near the heart of Tornado Alley, but that might be because there would be such a shit show of local outrage if they dared to it. I don't put it past those bastards to try.

[wxfree]

Getting not just your own entertainment, but your own reality pumped directly into your brain is more counterculture than anything, and it's now mainstream.  In an age in which people endlessly and futilely yell and laugh at each other, no one learns, and belief in truth is traitorous to the cause, perhaps the new counterculture is people who believe in using truth to solve problems and make people's lives better.

[NE2]

It's in the queer-celebrating spaces like Fringe Festivals.

[Bobby5280]

I think the Super 59 broadcast (still in progress as of this writing) has been a pretty good example of just how arguably invisible modern music is. Sure, Kendrick Lamar headlined the halftime show. However, just about all these expensive Super Bowl ads have been digging up vintage music from the 1980's, 1970's and earlier. I just heard Huey Lewis and the News during the last commercial break. They've had Gary Numan, Scorpions, LL Cool J and lots of other "old" artists in the ads.

[Max Rockatansky]

A lot of that can be attributed to 80s nostalgia being the peak thing among older adults right now.  When I was kid it was the same thing with 60s stuff. 

[Rothman]

I think the Super 59 broadcast (still in progress as of this writing) has been a pretty good example of just how arguably invisible modern music is. Sure, Kendrick Lamar headlined the halftime show. However, just about all these expensive Super Bowl ads have been digging up vintage music from the 1980's, 1970's and earlier. I just heard Huey Lewis and the News during the last commercial break. They've had Gary Numan, Scorpions, LL Cool J and lots of other "old" artists in the ads.

What are the demographics of the buying audience...