Place names you always mispronounce (like Mackinac and Greenwich)

[SEWIGuy]

Meanwhile, France just neatly sidesteps the whole matter by changing the spelling of the place name.  They don't pronounce Dunkirk correctly, so they just change it to Dunkerque instead.

Again, this is common in Europe.

[mgk920]

Soo Saint Marie

Yep, Sault Sainte Marie ('Saint Mary's Falls' in French).  One print news reporter from a couple of decades ago spelled the name of the railroad that was named after it (the 'SOO LINE') as 'Sioux Line'.

 

Mike

[Flint1979]

I have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac and as a matter of fact I have never heard anyone mispronounce it either. I've seen people misspell it (Mackinaw instead of Mackinac) but that's about it.

[Flint1979]

Soo Saint Marie

Sault Ste. Marie but it means Rapids of St. Mary in English.

[kphoger]

I have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac and as a matter of fact I have never heard anyone mispronounce it either. I've seen people misspell it (Mackinaw instead of Mackinac) but that's about it.

How about misspelling Mackinaw City?

[hotdogPi]

The only time I've heard someone else pronounce "Mackinac" here, which was earlier this year, had the c at the end pronounced.

[Flint1979]

I have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac and as a matter of fact I have never heard anyone mispronounce it either. I've seen people misspell it (Mackinaw instead of Mackinac) but that's about it.

How about misspelling Mackinaw City?

I haven't seen that one misspelled. I do know the trend there though, all Upper Peninsula places are spelled Mackinac and all Lower Peninsula places are spelled Mackinaw. Like Mackinac Trail, Mackinac County, Mackinac Island, Mackinac Bridge. Then Lower Peninsula has Mackinaw Trail, Mackinaw City, Mackinaw Road. I honestly didn't realize until recently that Saginaw and Mackinaw have the same last four letters and I've been spelling those words all my life.

[Flint1979]

The only time I've heard someone else pronounce "Mackinac" here, which was earlier this year, had the c at the end pronounced.

I've heard people pronounce it Mack-in-ack but I don't know if they are being sarcastic or serious.

[JayhawkCO]

Good thing I don't have to mention Buena Vista, Colorado often. As a native Spanish speaker I would likely "butcher" that, by pronouncing it the way it should be. It is not written "Biuna Vista" after all, like they insist to say it.

It does hurt my soul a little bit to say "Byoona", pero cuando en Roma...

[SEWIGuy]

I have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac and as a matter of fact I have never heard anyone mispronounce it either. I've seen people misspell it (Mackinaw instead of Mackinac) but that's about it.

That's because you're from Michigan. I have heard it mispronounced many times.

[vdeane]

Cairo, Illinois for me is "ky-ro" and not "kay-ro" as the local pronunciation is.

I always have to be careful with our Cairo for the same reason.  Meanwhile, I have to be careful with the original Medina because I tend to pronounce it like the one in Orleans County.  Somehow I don't have the same problem with Chili.

NY - Valatie (Va-lay-sha)

I think you can blame the Dutch for that.

Meanwhile, France just neatly sidesteps the whole matter by changing the spelling of the place name.  They don't pronounce Dunkirk correctly, so they just change it to Dunkerque instead.

We should do this.  Des Moines becomes Demoin.  Baton Rouge becomes Battin Rouge.  Saint Paul stays the same.

Seems to be par the course for romance languages given how many irregular verbs in both Spanish and French are the result of changing the spelling so that the pronunciation won't be affected while the verb is conjugated.  In English we just say "screw that, people can just remember to say it the way it's said and not how it's spelled" (to the rejoicing of spelling bee champions and cursing of language learners).

[wxfree]

Any English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.

Case in point: Mawn TREE all

Although there actually is a meteorologist locally who pronounces Québec correctly (for anyone curious, it's Tim Drawbridge formerly of WTEN and now with WNYT)

According to Wikipedia, it's MUN-tree-AWL in Canadian English.  I say it more like how you wrote it, but not quite.  I don't know much about this topic, so I don't really know how to describe it, but to me it feels more like mont REE yahl.  The T feels like part of the first syllable.  I don't hear a "tree," but the sounds blend because of how well those letters go together.  It's like a place called Mont Ree pronounced like "montree" with the emphasis on the second half.

I think what I'm saying, and maybe someone can explain this, is that the R, not the T, feels like the beginning of the emphasis.  That seems to be how the letters combine.  "Tree" is an "upward" word, since you can't emphasize the T without changing the word, like "TUH ree."  I think it has to do with how staccato sounds blend.  I took a music class, so I know what staccato is, but I never learned much about linguistics.

The Y I included in my pronunciation is a result of combining the ee and awl sounds.  I included the Y to blend the sounds together.  The way it's written in the quote, and on Wikipedia, to me looks more like three words.  They describe the syllables in a way that divides them.  The way I wrote it was meant to combine the syllables.  The way I read "mawn TREE" sounds like two words, but the way I read "mont REE" sound like one.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong.  Similarly, I read "REE awl" as divided sounds.  It isn't a glottal stop, but it's more gently divided.  It's like they split the syllables to clarify that there's no Y sound combining them.  (To me, there shouldn't be implied sounds.  If you hear a Y, you write it.)  I read "REE yahl" as a blended sound, which is how I pronounce that part of "Montreal," which is like the audio on Wikipedia other than the sound of the O.

I never studied this topic, but it's one I've gained an interest in.  I'd enjoy reading an informed opinion on the matter.

[wxfree]

War cess ter MA

I usually pronounce that as "war-ses-STER", what it looks like.  How one gets "woo-STAH" out of it blows my mind.

I thought about this because of Worcestershire sauce (I never knew that was capitalized).  I wanted to know how to pronounce it, and then I wanted to know why we say it that way.  I've heard Worcester pronounced on The Weather Channel as "wooster" (with the "oo" sounding more like "wool" and not like "wooing").

I see it as a result of the state law banning the letter R in Massachusetts.  "Worce" is one syllable, possibly sounding something like "wahs."  They adjust the vowel a little and run straight into the "ster" at the end, getting rid of the first E.  According to Wikipedia, Worcestershire is pronounced about the same in England as the sauce, so the Massachusettsian pronunciation of Worcester seems to honor the mother tongue.

[kphoger]

I used to mispronounce Osceola (the town in Iowa) as ah-see-OLE-uh.
I think it was on Amtrak that I learned it's actually oh-see-OLE-uh.

[7/8]

Some place names can't really be pronounced, such as Banff.

Still surprised no one has commented on this. What's so hard about Banff?

The 'n' always comes out as 'm'.

I have the same problem, Bamff is easier and more natural for me than Banff.

[wxfree]

I used to mispronounce Osceola (the town in Iowa) as ah-see-OLE-uh.
I think it was on Amtrak that I learned it's actually oh-see-OLE-uh.

I pronounce Osceola, Texas the same as your mispronunciation of the town in Iowa.  The only time I remember hearing someone say it, the first O was the long vowel sound, but that sounded wrong to me.  The town isn't in an isolated area, but it's very small.  It's the kind of place you drive through, but you never actually meet anyone from there.

I seem to remember someone on The Weather Channel saying "Osceola" starting with the short O.  I seem to think it was in Florida.  They're not always right, but they try to be right.  (That was the case years ago when I watched, back when they reported on the weather. [I loved the channel back then.  I would watch it for hours even when no big weather was happening.])

The Texas pronunciation guide says it's "7 s4 ¶ luh."  Apparently I can't copy and paste from that file and get the same figures.  It says it starts with a long O.  I've never known the guide to be wrong.

[bassoon1986]

I will always say Humble, TX (Houston suburb) with the H. "HUM-bull"

I honestly don't know the correct pronunciation because I hear just as many people pronounce it like they also do the adjective humble, with silent H, like your would with hour or honor. I just can't do it.

Also Corinth, TX. Can't always bring myself to give the second syllable the accent. I want to say CORE-inth not cur-INTH.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned New Orleans. I always felt like more people in the rest of the country prefer saying New or-LEENZ 

[Dirt Roads]

See Buena Vista, VA

That might not be a good example.  The same folks that say "Beh-YOU-na VEES-ta", also pronounce the neighboring town of Natural Bridge as "NATCH-you-lerr BRIDGE".

[GaryV]

I have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac

No MI natives, anyway.

We were talking with someone from out of state and they mentioned they were next traveling to Mackinac Island, pronounced it with the "ack" at the end. I told them that if they didn't want to sound like outsiders, it should be "aw".

I think I heard "ack" on Jeopardy once too.

[Brandon]

how locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.

Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals. 

I can understand the reaction. Growing up in a place where "Faribault" and "Cloquet" are pronounced in a very close approximation of the French way, hearing the way Michiganders pronounce "Calumet" feels pretty jarring. I also had to train myself not to say "Bel-wah" when referring to Beloit, Wisconsin.

Calumet City, Illinois is also very much not pronounced the French way. On the topic of Chicago suburbs, Joliet isn't either, and Des Plaines is especially far off.

Joliet is pronounced close to the French way other than the "J" (and even that varies from speaker to speaker).  The explorer (Louis Joliet) spelled his name before standard French spelling rules were set, so you have the two spellings, "Joliet" and "Jolliet".  The family is still around, and a city in Quebec is named for one of Louis's descendants, a Barthélemy Joliette.  When standard spelling for French was introduced, the name was modified, but still pronounced the same.

[Flint1979]

how locals pronounce the city name doesn't resemble how one would say Détroit in French.

Thus how the locals pronounce it is wrong. One of the worst offenders of this is Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

It's not wrong. Just because a place name's origin is French, that doesn't mean that the pronounciation needs to remain in French when its not the language spoken by the locals. 

I can understand the reaction. Growing up in a place where "Faribault" and "Cloquet" are pronounced in a very close approximation of the French way, hearing the way Michiganders pronounce "Calumet" feels pretty jarring. I also had to train myself not to say "Bel-wah" when referring to Beloit, Wisconsin.

Calumet City, Illinois is also very much not pronounced the French way. On the topic of Chicago suburbs, Joliet isn't either, and Des Plaines is especially far off.

I've always called Calumet City, Illinois just Cal City anyway.

[vdeane]

Any English speakers will mispronounce every city in Québec, as well as the province itself. No, it's not KWUH-beck, it's KAY-beck.

Case in point: Mawn TREE all

Although there actually is a meteorologist locally who pronounces Québec correctly (for anyone curious, it's Tim Drawbridge formerly of WTEN and now with WNYT)

According to Wikipedia, it's MUN-tree-AWL in Canadian English.  I say it more like how you wrote it, but not quite.  I don't know much about this topic, so I don't really know how to describe it, but to me it feels more like mont REE yahl.  The T feels like part of the first syllable.  I don't hear a "tree," but the sounds blend because of how well those letters go together.  It's like a place called Mont Ree pronounced like "montree" with the emphasis on the second half.

I think what I'm saying, and maybe someone can explain this, is that the R, not the T, feels like the beginning of the emphasis.  That seems to be how the letters combine.  "Tree" is an "upward" word, since you can't emphasize the T without changing the word, like "TUH ree."  I think it has to do with how staccato sounds blend.  I took a music class, so I know what staccato is, but I never learned much about linguistics.

The Y I included in my pronunciation is a result of combining the ee and awl sounds.  I included the Y to blend the sounds together.  The way it's written in the quote, and on Wikipedia, to me looks more like three words.  They describe the syllables in a way that divides them.  The way I wrote it was meant to combine the syllables.  The way I read "mawn TREE" sounds like two words, but the way I read "mont REE" sound like one.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong.  Similarly, I read "REE awl" as divided sounds.  It isn't a glottal stop, but it's more gently divided.  It's like they split the syllables to clarify that there's no Y sound combining them.  (To me, there shouldn't be implied sounds.  If you hear a Y, you write it.)  I read "REE yahl" as a blended sound, which is how I pronounce that part of "Montreal," which is like the audio on Wikipedia other than the sound of the O.

I never studied this topic, but it's one I've gained an interest in.  I'd enjoy reading an informed opinion on the matter.

Maybe the way I had it is just Americans?  If I'm interpreting what you wrote correctly, it sounds closer to the French pronunciation than the American one.

Speaking of Americans mispronouncing Canadian cities - tor ron toe

[SectorZ]

I have never in my life mispronounced Mackinac

No MI natives, anyway.

We were talking with someone from out of state and they mentioned they were next traveling to Mackinac Island, pronounced it with the "ack" at the end. I told them that if they didn't want to sound like outsiders, it should be "aw".

I think I heard "ack" on Jeopardy once too.

I did when I was in school once. My meteorology professor grew up in Michigan. A group of us students were discussing a large storm passing thru that area and I mispronounced the island. Across the room was his voice correcting me as soon as it came out of my mouth.

This is the same guy who once dinged me on a test for misspelling Gray ME.

[Bruce]

About 30 years ago, all the libraries around here had a book listing all the Kentucky place names and how they were pronounced. It was a yellow and blue book. But I haven't seen it in an awfully long time.

Sounds like it's "Kentucky Place Names" by Robert M. Rennick. There's a digitized version (broken up by letter) available from the Morehead State University Library: https://scholarworks.moreheadstate.edu/rennick_ms_collection/

[Flint1979]

Buena Vista here is pronounced how it's spelled instead of the real way it's pronounced, wenna-vesta. Whatever the case it means good view and there is nothing good about the view in Buena Vista Township. The western side of it is an overrun from the ghettos of the east side of Saginaw but it starts getting nicer after you get east of Towerline Road.