I-69 Ohio River Bridge

[edwaleni]

I know it's been explained to these leaders that the cost to maintain the SB bridge would be just off the charts, but they don't seem to understand or accept that.

I get why the Mayor isnt happy, his constituents on US-41 between downtown and the bridge are complaining. But instead of getting a reversal of the decision record and EIS results, he should be using his civic authority with his city council to get these businesses relocated closer to I-69.

Because once all the national traffic redirects in a few years, that is where the overnight (hotel) business is going to go. US-41 will return to being a local arterial. The non-retail properties in this space are mostly trailer parks and veterinarians for Ellis Park.

Most of the rest are 2 star hotels and the usual range of American fast food places and cell phone retail.

If I were him I would start trying to get a Bucee's or Love's at US-60 and I-69, how many people in Henderson earn 100k?

[The Road Warrior]

Henderson interests are working hard to get the Record of Decision changed to keep the SB US 41 bridge after the I-69 bridge opens.

WFIE reports that Congressman James Comer is supportive of keeping the bridge, although it is not clear if that support comes with the funding to do so.

maybe he can pay for its upkeep 

Staton says if the twin bridges were to go away, it would hurt businesses on the U.S. 41 strip, farmers trying to move equipment across state lines, and cause a permanent traffic jam.

I think this was covered in the EIS before the Record of Decision was made. It was also discussed in the public hearings.

Also, Henderson annexed most of the land around the future I-69/US-41 exit and the future I-69/US-60 exit.



If I was Henderson, I would work with several developers and offer special zoning deals for commercial development in and around those exits and tax breaks for those who are on US-41.

The one farmer who works Green River Island on the Kentucky side already has an equipment barn on site which is accessible from Waterworks Road on the Indiana state line. The only reason he would move his equipment is if the island is flooded, by which he should be getting another barn on the Indiana side, not trekking across a major arterial bridge to reach the Kentucky side. The nearest working farm is off US-60 east of Henderson, so I don't think the mayor is being realistic.

I know it's been explained to these leaders that the cost to maintain the SB bridge would be just off the charts, but they don't seem to understand or accept that.

They might be trying to push for a full bridge replacement after the interstate bridge is finished, reasoning that it will primarily alleviate local traffic, who are not interested in taking the interstate or paying a toll.

[jnewkirk77]

Governor Beshear has VETOED, with his line-item authority, the portion of the KYTC Road Plan bill which would impose tolls on the I-69 bridge.

In his veto message, the Governor wrote the following:

"In 2019 then-Governor Matt Bevin supported tolls for the Brent Spence Bridge connecting Covington with Cincinnati, which I opposed. Voters in Northern Kentucky soundly rejected tolls in the election that year. The Brent Spence Bridge project has no tolls and neither should the I-69 Ohio River Crossing."

It isn't immediately known if the General Assembly will seek to override the veto when they return to Frankfort.

[silverback1065]

If they don't toll to pay for the bridge they will simply raise taxes in another way to get the money anyway.

[sprjus4]

If they don't toll to pay for the bridge they will simply raise taxes in another way to get the money anyway.

Which is exactly what should happen.

[seicer]

I know it's been explained to these leaders that the cost to maintain the SB bridge would be just off the charts, but they don't seem to understand or accept that.

They might be trying to push for a full bridge replacement after the interstate bridge is finished, reasoning that it will primarily alleviate local traffic, who are not interested in taking the interstate or paying a toll.

Rehabilitation projects are planned for the southbound bridge to keep it in service for over 130 years. The steel quality is very good and isn't experiencing fatigue or brittleness.

[jnewkirk77]

I know it's been explained to these leaders that the cost to maintain the SB bridge would be just off the charts, but they don't seem to understand or accept that.

They might be trying to push for a full bridge replacement after the interstate bridge is finished, reasoning that it will primarily alleviate local traffic, who are not interested in taking the interstate or paying a toll.

Rehabilitation projects are planned for the southbound bridge to keep it in service for over 130 years. The steel quality is very good and isn't experiencing fatigue or brittleness.

You're thinking of the NB bridge. The SB bridge is going to be demolished.

[ITB]

Governor Beshear has VETOED, with his line-item authority, the portion of the KYTC Road Plan bill which would impose tolls on the I-69 bridge.

In his veto message, the Governor wrote the following:

"In 2019 then-Governor Matt Bevin supported tolls for the Brent Spence Bridge connecting Covington with Cincinnati, which I opposed. Voters in Northern Kentucky soundly rejected tolls in the election that year. The Brent Spence Bridge project has no tolls and neither should the I-69 Ohio River Crossing."

It isn't immediately known if the General Assembly will seek to override the veto when they return to Frankfort.

This is not a positive development. Somehow Kentucky will have to come up with the money to pay for the bridge, and, needless to say, it'll be a considerable sum. I assume Indiana will proceed with tolls. If Kentucky ultimately decides not to toll, it might be in Indiana's favor to toll both north and southbound.

[ITB]

I know it's been explained to these leaders that the cost to maintain the SB bridge would be just off the charts, but they don't seem to understand or accept that.

They might be trying to push for a full bridge replacement after the interstate bridge is finished, reasoning that it will primarily alleviate local traffic, who are not interested in taking the interstate or paying a toll.

Rehabilitation projects are planned for the southbound bridge to keep it in service for over 130 years. The steel quality is very good and isn't experiencing fatigue or brittleness.

You're thinking of the NB bridge. The SB bridge is going to be demolished.

Have there been any concrete figures released regarding the cost of rehabilitating and maintaining the SB bridge? For instance, what would the cost be to keep the SB bridge functional and open to vehicular traffic for another 30 years, or 40, and so on?

[jnewkirk77]

Have there been any concrete figures released regarding the cost of rehabilitating and maintaining the SB bridge? For instance, what would the cost be to keep the SB bridge functional and open to vehicular traffic for another 30 years, or 40, and so on?

First, to update everyone, the tolls are back on. The veto was, not surprisingly, overriden by huge margins in both House & Senate.

At one point, there were, but strangely enough those figures have gone missing. I can't find them anywhere on KYTC's website.

Henderson County's judge-executive, Brad Schneider, wrote a scathing comment on a local news Facebook page yesterday in which he derided the veto as little more than grandstanding, because the Brent Spence bridge was kept toll-free by what he called "a one-time, largest-in-history, manna-from-heaven federal grant from the Biden Administration for which there was no precedent at the time and won't be in any foreseeable future."

I don't want to drop this off into a political abyss, but the Biden administration got the Spence bridge funded even though it serves two states which most definitely did not vote for President Biden.  I may be terminally naive (I've been called worse), but I fail to see why the deeply red states of Indiana and Kentucky aren't trying to curry favor with the Trump administration in return for their overwhelming support of President Trump.  But since Indiana now seems to be becoming the toll state Kentucky once was, I have a feeling it's going to be a moot argument.

[silverback1065]

Have there been any concrete figures released regarding the cost of rehabilitating and maintaining the SB bridge? For instance, what would the cost be to keep the SB bridge functional and open to vehicular traffic for another 30 years, or 40, and so on?

First, to update everyone, the tolls are back on. The veto was, not surprisingly, overriden by huge margins in both House & Senate.

At one point, there were, but strangely enough those figures have gone missing. I can't find them anywhere on KYTC's website.

Henderson County's judge-executive, Brad Schneider, wrote a scathing comment on a local news Facebook page yesterday in which he derided the veto as little more than grandstanding, because the Brent Spence bridge was kept toll-free by what he called "a one-time, largest-in-history, manna-from-heaven federal grant from the Biden Administration for which there was no precedent at the time and won't be in any foreseeable future."

I don't want to drop this off into a political abyss, but the Biden administration got the Spence bridge funded even though it serves two states which most definitely did not vote for President Biden.  I may be terminally naive (I've been called worse), but I fail to see why the deeply red states of Indiana and Kentucky aren't trying to curry favor with the Trump administration in return for their overwhelming support of President Trump.  But since Indiana now seems to be becoming the toll state Kentucky once was, I have a feeling it's going to be a moot argument.

Seems logical to lobby the government with a favorable administration in. But I don't want to comment on politics either at this point because neither I nor many members on here feel like reading all the arguments that will come up. 

[The Ghostbuster]

I wouldn't be surprised if tolls come to other Ohio River Bridges in the future.

[hbelkins]

I wouldn't be surprised if tolls come to other Ohio River Bridges in the future.

As a counterpoint to the discussion of the Brent Spence and I-69 bridges, there was a huge outcry in Louisville as to why Kentucky didn't seek covid relief money to pay off the bonds/remove the tolls on the Louisville bridges during the Biden administration, especially since Gov. Andy Beshear (D-Kentucky) claimed Louisville as his home. The people in Jefferson County felt, for lack of a better term, betrayed since I-65 generally carries more long-distance traffic than does I-65.

[edwaleni]

The I-69 Ohio River Crossing (ORX) project, estimated to cost around $1.5 billion, includes a four-lane bridge, 8.4 miles of new highway, and upgrades to existing roads, connecting Evansville, Indiana, with Henderson, Kentucky.

 Revisions to the Ohio River Bridge concept have helped reduce its estimated cost from the initial estimate of $1.4 billion to $845 million. Both states are considering a combination of tolls, private sector investment, and traditional funding sources to finance construction of the bridge.

[Big John]

I wouldn't be surprised if tolls come to other Ohio River Bridges in the future.

The people in Jefferson County felt, for lack of a better term, betrayed since I-65 generally carries more long-distance traffic than does I-65.

I don't think any highway carries more traffic than itself. 
Just need a correction here.

[Sapphuby]

I wouldn't be surprised if tolls come to other Ohio River Bridges in the future.

The people in Jefferson County felt, for lack of a better term, betrayed since I-65 generally carries more long-distance traffic than does I-65.

I don't think any highway carries more traffic than itself. 
Just need a correction here.

I guess it largely depends on what section of the New Jersey turnpike is the busiest...

[jnewkirk77]

I wouldn't be surprised if tolls come to other Ohio River Bridges in the future.

As a counterpoint to the discussion of the Brent Spence and I-69 bridges, there was a huge outcry in Louisville as to why Kentucky didn't seek covid relief money to pay off the bonds/remove the tolls on the Louisville bridges during the Biden administration, especially since Gov. Andy Beshear (D-Kentucky) claimed Louisville as his home. The people in Jefferson County felt, for lack of a better term, betrayed since I-65 generally carries more long-distance traffic than does I-65.

I don't remember the Louisville media reporting why that didn't happen in the long run, but my understanding was the rules of the relief money were such that the money couldn't be used for that purpose. We can argue the wisdom of that, but I think any one of us would've been okay with finding a way to reduce or eliminate those tolls.

[hbelkins]

I wouldn't be surprised if tolls come to other Ohio River Bridges in the future.

The people in Jefferson County felt, for lack of a better term, betrayed since I-65 generally carries more long-distance traffic than does I-65.

I don't think any highway carries more traffic than itself. 
Just need a correction here.

Yes, I obviously meant I-75.

Disclaimer: I have not looked at the traffic counts for the Brent Spence and Lincoln/Kennedy bridges to see which Ohio River crossing actually carries the most traffic; I was relying on the fact that in general, I-65 carries more traffic through Kentucky than does I-75.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Governor Beshear has VETOED, with his line-item authority, the portion of the KYTC Road Plan bill which would impose tolls on the I-69 bridge.

In his veto message, the Governor wrote the following:

"In 2019 then-Governor Matt Bevin supported tolls for the Brent Spence Bridge connecting Covington with Cincinnati, which I opposed. Voters in Northern Kentucky soundly rejected tolls in the election that year. The Brent Spence Bridge project has no tolls and neither should the I-69 Ohio River Crossing."

It isn't immediately known if the General Assembly will seek to override the veto when they return to Frankfort.

Both the House and Senate in Kentucky have override the veto, which means that there will be tolls on the I-69 bridge over the Ohio River. (77-16 in the House and 32-6 in the Senate)

[Moose]

Maybe taking a cue from ITB.

The Ohio River Crossing website has posted tons of very up to date construction photos.

https://i69ohiorivercrossing.com/videos-and-photos/

[edwaleni]

As of 10 days ago, it was under about 2 feet of Ohio River floodwater.



Looks like it drained off pretty quick.

[vdeane]

As of 10 days ago, it was under about 2 feet of Ohio River floodwater.



Looks like it drained off pretty quick.

Does this mean that I-69 is going to be MORE susceptible to flooding than US 41?  If so, that's very shortsighted.

[74/171FAN]

Does this mean that I-69 is going to be MORE susceptible to flooding than US 41?  If so, that's very shortsighted

I guess we have no idea if the piers were underwater or not.  If that is the case, then there is very much cause for concern.

[pianocello]

Does this mean that I-69 is going to be MORE susceptible to flooding than US 41?  If so, that's very shortsighted

I guess we have no idea if the piers were underwater or not.  If that is the case, then there is very much cause for concern.

Yeah, it's hard to tell from the image. But I'm always surprised to find out how much depth is added from the girders and deck. Obviously we still want floodwaters to be able to flow underneath, but I could see another 5-7 vertical feet between the top of the piers and the roadway surface.

Also, if the image was from the 18th, that would have put it shortly before the crest - based on NWS data from the stations, that crest was around the top 5 of recorded history and top 3 since the big one in 1937. I'm not sure what probability that would put it at, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere around the 100-year stage.

[edwaleni]

Does this mean that I-69 is going to be MORE susceptible to flooding than US 41?  If so, that's very shortsighted

I guess we have no idea if the piers were underwater or not.  If that is the case, then there is very much cause for concern.

I had the same concern. This image is from the Copernicus sat image site and they do not provide hi-res imagery, so for the clip it was either zoom in really tight (and blurry) or zoom out to pick up references.

But here is a fuzzy zoom in and I have highlighted where the pylons and crane are sticking up above the flood water.