U.S. Census Bureau population estimates for July 1, 2024

[ran4sh]

With Baltimore and Detroit growing, it's a good time to remind everyone that gentrification is a bad thing.

Why do we have to shove abrasive negativity into such a non-charged thread?

But if the topic at hand is out there and open for debate

gentrification is a bad thing.

I would ask for some justification as to why . . .

Because I live in poverty and I don't like the idea of being pushed out of my own neighborhood by hipsters.

It's not "your" neighborhood. You're trying to deny other people the ability to live there, often based on "immutable characteristics" such as where they were born, where they were raised as children, etc. The left/liberal side is usually the side that says it's wrong to discriminate based on "immutable characteristics".

[LilianaUwU]

It's not "your" neighborhood. You're trying to deny other people the ability to live there, often based on "immutable characteristics" such as where they were born, where they were raised as children, etc. The left/liberal side is usually the side that says it's wrong to discriminate based on "immutable characteristics".

That's a fucking bold statement. So I should let the rich hipsters push me out of my house and onto the streets?

[Max Rockatansky]

It's not "your" neighborhood. You're trying to deny other people the ability to live there, often based on "immutable characteristics" such as where they were born, where they were raised as children, etc. The left/liberal side is usually the side that says it's wrong to discriminate based on "immutable characteristics".

That's a fucking bold statement. So I should let the rich hipsters push me out of my house and onto the streets?

Are you at risk of this presently?  If so, how does your circumstances compare to that of someone living in Detroit? 

I mean hey, I am not particular fan of the hipster crowd.  But Detroit needs any boost in population it can get.  The city is basically in ruins and everyone has been leaving for a long time.

On the last two trips back to Michigan I actually found downtown welcoming and lively.  There was even a jazz festival last year that caught my wife's interest.  Certainly felt like a step in the right direction despite the crowd mostly being comprised of hipsters. 

[SEWIGuy]

I think cities should have affordable areas, but also need the regeneration that people with more wealth provide. Too much of one or the other isn't great.

[LilianaUwU]

I think cities should have affordable areas, but also need the regeneration that people with more wealth provide. Too much of one or the other isn't great.

That I can agree with. But unfortunately, whenever redevelopment happens, no one knows where to pump the brakes.

Are you at risk of this presently?

I'm not, but seeing the rest of the neighborhood redevelop, I might be eventually.

[SEWIGuy]

I think cities should have affordable areas, but also need the regeneration that people with more wealth provide. Too much of one or the other isn't great.

That I can agree with. But unfortunately, whenever redevelopment happens, no one knows where to pump the brakes.

And where it's going to happen.

[Rothman]

"White flight" is not racism.  So-called white flight was simply the fact that some (most) people prefer a suburban lifestyle to a urban one.  They worked hard and achieved what, for them, is the American Dream.  "Gentrification" is also not racism.  It is simply the fact that some other people prefer a urban gentrified lifestyle to a suburban one.

Others prefer rural areas, high rises, cabins in the mountains, RV wandering, Ex-pat to Panama or Costa Rica, older close in suburbs, gated lifestyle communities, 55 plus communities, whatever.

It's a big country and a bigger world.  Before condemning people you do not know, learn that.

Aw.  Educating people how to use dog whistles is...ick. 

Simplifying motivations like this does ignore the extensive history of race being a factor, especially with the migration north of southern black populations.

[thspfc]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

The type of gentrification that is not just good, but necessary for the health of our cities is when abandoned blocks and unused parking lots and blocks of decrepit, unlivable homes are converted into blocks of higher-density housing.

"White flight" is not racism. It's a big country and a bigger world.  Before condemning people you do not know, learn that.

I was speaking from the perspective of someone who staunchly opposes gentrification, to point out the obvious contradiction in the common "it's racist" argument (whites leave, they're racist; whites come back, they're also racist).

I don't know if white flight was racism; I was not around while it was happening.

[Rothman]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

[Max Rockatansky]

My own family left Detroit during the late 1960s for the suburbs after the big riots.  My grandfather isn't who was the breadwinner isn't someone I think was a racist.  He grew up in a different time and was cautious around people of other ethnicities.  He was not a worldly person and worked for four decades in a lumber yard.  Really I think he was just afraid of the city after my mom got caught in downtown during the 1967 riot.  But yes, a lot of white racism went into why that riot (and others) broke out. 

Sometimes I wonder what my grandparents would think of me being in a mixed ethnicity marriage.  I doubt my grandpa from Detroit would have an issue.  My hyper religious grandpa from Baltimore on the other hand almost certainly would have had a problem.

[vdeane]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

[Rothman]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

I suppose that could happen if you stretch "urban setting" to be the reaches of sprawling cities like Houston.  Manhattan, not so much.

[Scott5114]

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

I suppose that could happen if you stretch "urban setting" to be the reaches of sprawling cities like Houston.  Manhattan, not so much.

Houston doesn't have zoning. 

[Rothman]

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

I suppose that could happen if you stretch "urban setting" to be the reaches of sprawling cities like Houston.  Manhattan, not so much.

Houston doesn't have zoning. 

I forget the term they use down there for their legal substitute and I'm too lazy to Google it this morning.

[kalvado]

I would ask for some justification as to why

The problem with gentrification is when a neighborhood with lower-income residents begins to gentrify, property values increase, which means that rents generally increase too. So people who have lived in a place for years, grinding out a living and living within their means, through no fault of their own, suddenly can no longer afford to live where they have for years. Depending on tax laws even homeowners may be affected, if their property values increase so much they are no longer able to pay their property tax.

On the other hand, gentrification is usually the result of cleaning up and generally improving derelict properties, and typically increases the tax base of the affected area, which are both good things for a city overall. So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

There are 3 types of problems, where most areas deal with at least one of those:
-Area is growing, and people suffer the consequences
-area is decaying, and people suffer consequences
-area is stagnant, and people suffer consequences

[GaryV]

Detroit's population decline was not just "white flight". It lost 10% in both the 60's and 70's. But it lost 20% in the 80's and 15% in the 90's, 7% in the 2000's, 25% in the 2010's and 10% in the 2020's. Much of those years of largest decline were due to the auto industry contracting and moving out of the rust belt; people who didn't have jobs didn't stay.

A lot more of Detroit's decline was due to people of color moving out of the city to the suburbs when they were able to afford it (like the whites did earlier). The city of Warren had a very low minority population (1-2%) 4 decades ago; today it is 1/3 each white, black and Asian. Southfield is majority black, mostly due to migration in the 1990's and later. Removal of restrictions on minorities played a large part in many suburbs gaining people of color.

[webny99]

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram had a story about its city reaching 7 digits.  It's currently one of 11, and the story said it was the 13th US city to ever reach that level.

This post is like a really bad Jeopardy answer.

Nevertheless. What is San Jose and Detroit?

I was trying to figure out the other two. Detroit was pretty obvious, but San Jose was a surprise.

[SEWIGuy]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

I don't think starter homes getting replaced by McMansions is the major issue. I think the issue is when apartment buildings are replaced by high-end apartments or condos, and it drives up the price of everything in that neighborhood - including the single family houses. As I said above, some of that is good. An example is the Walker's Point area of Milwaukee, which is not a place you would generally want to hang out 30 years ago. Now it is full of younger professionals, but the cost of housing in the neighborhood has increased. And it is definitely less affordable for those with less means.