U.S. Census Bureau population estimates for July 1, 2024

[ran4sh]

With Baltimore and Detroit growing, it's a good time to remind everyone that gentrification is a bad thing.

Why do we have to shove abrasive negativity into such a non-charged thread?

But if the topic at hand is out there and open for debate

gentrification is a bad thing.

I would ask for some justification as to why . . .

Because I live in poverty and I don't like the idea of being pushed out of my own neighborhood by hipsters.

It's not "your" neighborhood. You're trying to deny other people the ability to live there, often based on "immutable characteristics" such as where they were born, where they were raised as children, etc. The left/liberal side is usually the side that says it's wrong to discriminate based on "immutable characteristics".

[LilianaUwU]

It's not "your" neighborhood. You're trying to deny other people the ability to live there, often based on "immutable characteristics" such as where they were born, where they were raised as children, etc. The left/liberal side is usually the side that says it's wrong to discriminate based on "immutable characteristics".

That's a fucking bold statement. So I should let the rich hipsters push me out of my house and onto the streets?

[Max Rockatansky]

It's not "your" neighborhood. You're trying to deny other people the ability to live there, often based on "immutable characteristics" such as where they were born, where they were raised as children, etc. The left/liberal side is usually the side that says it's wrong to discriminate based on "immutable characteristics".

That's a fucking bold statement. So I should let the rich hipsters push me out of my house and onto the streets?

Are you at risk of this presently?  If so, how does your circumstances compare to that of someone living in Detroit? 

I mean hey, I am not particular fan of the hipster crowd.  But Detroit needs any boost in population it can get.  The city is basically in ruins and everyone has been leaving for a long time.

On the last two trips back to Michigan I actually found downtown welcoming and lively.  There was even a jazz festival last year that caught my wife's interest.  Certainly felt like a step in the right direction despite the crowd mostly being comprised of hipsters. 

[SEWIGuy]

I think cities should have affordable areas, but also need the regeneration that people with more wealth provide. Too much of one or the other isn't great.

[LilianaUwU]

I think cities should have affordable areas, but also need the regeneration that people with more wealth provide. Too much of one or the other isn't great.

That I can agree with. But unfortunately, whenever redevelopment happens, no one knows where to pump the brakes.

Are you at risk of this presently?

I'm not, but seeing the rest of the neighborhood redevelop, I might be eventually.

[SEWIGuy]

I think cities should have affordable areas, but also need the regeneration that people with more wealth provide. Too much of one or the other isn't great.

That I can agree with. But unfortunately, whenever redevelopment happens, no one knows where to pump the brakes.

And where it's going to happen.

[Rothman]

"White flight" is not racism.  So-called white flight was simply the fact that some (most) people prefer a suburban lifestyle to a urban one.  They worked hard and achieved what, for them, is the American Dream.  "Gentrification" is also not racism.  It is simply the fact that some other people prefer a urban gentrified lifestyle to a suburban one.

Others prefer rural areas, high rises, cabins in the mountains, RV wandering, Ex-pat to Panama or Costa Rica, older close in suburbs, gated lifestyle communities, 55 plus communities, whatever.

It's a big country and a bigger world.  Before condemning people you do not know, learn that.

Aw.  Educating people how to use dog whistles is...ick. 

Simplifying motivations like this does ignore the extensive history of race being a factor, especially with the migration north of southern black populations.

[thspfc]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

The type of gentrification that is not just good, but necessary for the health of our cities is when abandoned blocks and unused parking lots and blocks of decrepit, unlivable homes are converted into blocks of higher-density housing.

"White flight" is not racism. It's a big country and a bigger world.  Before condemning people you do not know, learn that.

I was speaking from the perspective of someone who staunchly opposes gentrification, to point out the obvious contradiction in the common "it's racist" argument (whites leave, they're racist; whites come back, they're also racist).

I don't know if white flight was racism; I was not around while it was happening.

[Rothman]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

[Max Rockatansky]

My own family left Detroit during the late 1960s for the suburbs after the big riots.  My grandfather isn't who was the breadwinner isn't someone I think was a racist.  He grew up in a different time and was cautious around people of other ethnicities.  He was not a worldly person and worked for four decades in a lumber yard.  Really I think he was just afraid of the city after my mom got caught in downtown during the 1967 riot.  But yes, a lot of white racism went into why that riot (and others) broke out. 

Sometimes I wonder what my grandparents would think of me being in a mixed ethnicity marriage.  I doubt my grandpa from Detroit would have an issue.  My hyper religious grandpa from Baltimore on the other hand almost certainly would have had a problem.

[vdeane]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

[Rothman]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

I suppose that could happen if you stretch "urban setting" to be the reaches of sprawling cities like Houston.  Manhattan, not so much.

[Scott5114]

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

I suppose that could happen if you stretch "urban setting" to be the reaches of sprawling cities like Houston.  Manhattan, not so much.

Houston doesn't have zoning. 

[Rothman]

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

I suppose that could happen if you stretch "urban setting" to be the reaches of sprawling cities like Houston.  Manhattan, not so much.

Houston doesn't have zoning. 

I forget the term they use down there for their legal substitute and I'm too lazy to Google it this morning.

[kalvado]

I would ask for some justification as to why

The problem with gentrification is when a neighborhood with lower-income residents begins to gentrify, property values increase, which means that rents generally increase too. So people who have lived in a place for years, grinding out a living and living within their means, through no fault of their own, suddenly can no longer afford to live where they have for years. Depending on tax laws even homeowners may be affected, if their property values increase so much they are no longer able to pay their property tax.

On the other hand, gentrification is usually the result of cleaning up and generally improving derelict properties, and typically increases the tax base of the affected area, which are both good things for a city overall. So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

There are 3 types of problems, where most areas deal with at least one of those:
-Area is growing, and people suffer the consequences
-area is decaying, and people suffer consequences
-area is stagnant, and people suffer consequences

[GaryV]

Detroit's population decline was not just "white flight". It lost 10% in both the 60's and 70's. But it lost 20% in the 80's and 15% in the 90's, 7% in the 2000's, 25% in the 2010's and 10% in the 2020's. Much of those years of largest decline were due to the auto industry contracting and moving out of the rust belt; people who didn't have jobs didn't stay.

A lot more of Detroit's decline was due to people of color moving out of the city to the suburbs when they were able to afford it (like the whites did earlier). The city of Warren had a very low minority population (1-2%) 4 decades ago; today it is 1/3 each white, black and Asian. Southfield is majority black, mostly due to migration in the 1990's and later. Removal of restrictions on minorities played a large part in many suburbs gaining people of color.

[webny99]

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram had a story about its city reaching 7 digits.  It's currently one of 11, and the story said it was the 13th US city to ever reach that level.

This post is like a really bad Jeopardy answer.

Nevertheless. What is San Jose and Detroit?

I was trying to figure out the other two. Detroit was pretty obvious, but San Jose was a surprise.

[SEWIGuy]

I would ask for some justification as to why

So neither "gentrification is always bad" or "gentrification is always good" is correct.

I agree.

The type of gentrification I disapprove of is when old but functional single-family homes are rebuilt as new single-family homes.

How dare we keep the same functional zoning that had been in place for decades...(wut?)

I assume that's referring to when starter homes get replaced with McMansions.

I don't think starter homes getting replaced by McMansions is the major issue. I think the issue is when apartment buildings are replaced by high-end apartments or condos, and it drives up the price of everything in that neighborhood - including the single family houses. As I said above, some of that is good. An example is the Walker's Point area of Milwaukee, which is not a place you would generally want to hang out 30 years ago. Now it is full of younger professionals, but the cost of housing in the neighborhood has increased. And it is definitely less affordable for those with less means.

[DTComposer]

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram had a story about its city reaching 7 digits.  It's currently one of 11, and the story said it was the 13th US city to ever reach that level.

This post is like a really bad Jeopardy answer.

Nevertheless. What is San Jose and Detroit?

I was trying to figure out the other two. Detroit was pretty obvious, but San Jose was a surprise.

San Jose got to just over a million (1,013,000) at the 2020 Census, but the COVID flight from cities (exacerbated in California by housing costs) dropped it under by 2022 (978K). It was back to 997K as of 7/1/2024, so it's likely to already be over a million again.

Interesting to note that when the Census Bureau releases their estimates they also revise their estimates for previous years - Fort Worth's 2023 estimate was revised upward by 27,000; Houston by 33,000; Chicago by 35,000; Los Angeles by 27,000; New York by 133,000. In fact, the 18 largest cities all had their estimates revised up by at least 6,000.

It seems to paint the picture that cities' losses during COVID were not as big as we were led to believe, or that the recovery is stronger than we were led to believe.

[jgb191]

Here we go yet again....

317,317  Corpus Christi

Compared to the following professional sports cities:

314,915  Cinncinati
307,668  Pittsburgh
279,695  St. Louis
276,617  Buffalo

Also comparable to other sports cities of Cleveland, New Orleans, and Orlando.

Mind you, I am NOT advocating for my home city acquiring a pro-sports club because A) I know perfectly well that will never happen (at least in my lifetime) unless our city experiences an exponentially skyrocketing population (improbable chance), and B) I'm already spoken for with the Houston sports teams.


Hard to believe that Ft. Worth looks to be on pace to overtake Dallas in size.  Dallas might soon not even be the largest city in its own metroplex.

If Las Vegas and North Las Vegas could pull itself together, that city could have had almost a million people.  I'll never understand why there are these [enter cardinal direction] [enter city name].  North Little Rock, North Miami, North Las Vegas, etc.  If they wish to remain separate city, couldn't they have come up with a name more original/unique?

[GaryV]

North Little Rock, North Miami, North Las Vegas, etc.  If they wish to remain separate city, couldn't they have come up with a name more original/unique?

East Detroit did in 1992. It became Eastpointe. They wanted to be associated more with the other Pointes than with Detroit.

[kphoger]

North Little Rock, North Miami, North Las Vegas, etc.  If they wish to remain separate city, couldn't they have come up with a name more original/unique?

This has prompted me to read up on the history of those towns' names.  Fascinating stuff.  In the case of North Miami, the Florida state government allowed a new development near Miami Shores to also be named Miami Shores, then required the original town to change its name.

[DTComposer]

Here we go yet again....

317,317  Corpus Christi

Compared to the following professional sports cities:

314,915  Cinncinati
307,668  Pittsburgh
279,695  St. Louis
276,617  Buffalo

Also comparable to other sports cities of Cleveland, New Orleans, and Orlando.

Mind you, I am NOT advocating for my home city acquiring a pro-sports club because A) I know perfectly well that will never happen (at least in my lifetime) unless our city experiences an exponentially skyrocketing population (improbable chance), and B) I'm already spoken for with the Houston sports teams.

2024 Metropolitan Area size
20. Orlando - 2,940,513
23. St. Louis - 2,811,927
28. Pittsburg - 2,429,917
30. Cincinnati - 2,302,815
34. Cleveland - 2,171,877
51. Buffalo - 1,160,172
59. New Orleans - 966,230
...
121. Corpus Christi - 450,187

2024-2025 Television market size (numbers are TV households, not total population)
15. Orlando - 1,902,420
19. Cleveland - 1,554,340
24. St. Louis - 1,273,870
27. Pittsburgh - 1,167,890
37. Cincinnati - 958,630
54. Buffalo - 637,090
50. New Orleans - 672,790
...
130. Corpus Christi - 209,780

Those are why Corpus Christi doesn't have its own pro team.

Also note that when Buffalo got the Bills in 1959, the metro area was the 14th largest in the nation, bigger than the Atlanta, Houston, Kansas City, or Seattle metros.

Hard to believe that Ft. Worth looks to be on pace to overtake Dallas in size.  Dallas might soon not even be the largest city in its own metroplex.

It's also the first time the U.S. has two cities of 1,000,000+ in the same metropolitan area.

[hotdogPi]

I still feel like McAllen-Harlingen-Brownsville is lacking, especially since I suspect most Americans can't name either McAllen or Harlingen. The southernmost two counties in Texas have about 1.35 million people, and that's just on the US side. This would put it above the New Orleans metro, and if you exclude the Canadian side, above the Buffalo metro. It wouldn't quite reach #32, but it could have one sport.

[wxfree]

Hard to believe that Ft. Worth looks to be on pace to overtake Dallas in size.  Dallas might soon not even be the largest city in its own metroplex.

The Star-Telegram article mentioned the possibility of Fort Worth outgrowing Dallas.  I don't know how much open or lightly developed land is in each city, but I'm pretty sure Fort Worth has more room to grow geographically.  Dallas is just about locked in, while Fort Worth is only locked most of the way around.  It looks like there's some ETJ to the west and northwest.

According to Wickerpaedia, Dallas is bigger than Fort Worth by about 30 square miles, but it has 44 square miles of water, while Fort Worth has only 8, meaning it (347 square miles) is already bigger than Dallas (340) in terms of land.