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Michigan Notes

Started by MDOTFanFB, October 26, 2012, 08:06:31 PM

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kphoger

Quote from: michiganguy123 on October 29, 2025, 02:48:55 PMMichigan gas taxes changing
https://www.mlive.com/news/2025/10/taxes-on-gas-are-changing-in-michigan-heres-what-to-know.html

Old system: 31-cents-per-gallon state fuel tax, plus an 18.4% federal fuel tax, and a 6% sales tax.
New system: 31-cents-per-gallon state fuel tax, plus an 18.4% federal fuel tax, plus 20 cents sales tax.

Gas needs to be $3.34 to be the same tax as the old system
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 29, 2025, 03:43:09 PMSpecifically, $3.34/gallon before taxes.

In other words, the price needs to be $4.45 on the pump.

Anything higher than $3.34 pre-tax will yield a lower total tax amount.  Anything lower than $3.34 pre-tax will yield a higher total tax amount.

$2.50 = Pre-tax per gallon
$0.91 = Total tax, old system
$3.41 = Price at the pump, old system
$0.96 = Total tax, new system
$3.46 = Price at the pump, new system

$3.34 = Pre-tax per gallon
$1.11 = Total tax, either way
$4.45 = Price at the pump, either way

$4.00 = Pre-tax per gallon
$1.27 = Total tax, old system
$5.27 = Price at the pump, old system
$1.23 = Total tax, new system
$5.23 = Price at the pump, new system

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.


JREwing78

Quote from: michiganguy123 on October 29, 2025, 02:48:55 PMMichigan gas taxes changing
https://www.mlive.com/news/2025/10/taxes-on-gas-are-changing-in-michigan-heres-what-to-know.html

Old system: 31-cents-per-gallon state fuel tax, plus an 18.4% federal fuel tax, and a 6% sales tax.
New system: 31-cents-per-gallon state fuel tax, plus an 18.4% federal fuel tax, plus 20 cents sales tax.

Gas needs to be $3.34 to be the same tax as the old system
Ummm, not quite:
Old system: 31-cents-per-gallon state fuel tax, plus an 18.4% federal fuel tax, and a 6% sales tax.
New system: 51-cents-per-gallon state fuel tax, plus an 18.4% federal fuel tax

In other words, they raised the fuel tax 20 cents and dropped the sales tax. The sales tax never went to roads. So effectively roads are now getting 20 more cents per gallon.

As a result, Michigan is no longer pulling funds from the gas tax to the general fund. It's all going to road funding. Oh, and when gas is relatively cheaper, you're saving a couple more cents than otherwise. Will you ever notice? Doubt it. 

They could've taken this opportunity to index the gas tax to inflation, but why would Michigan do something smart like that? That would require the politicians to demonstrate foresight and intelligence. 

Flint1979


JREwing78

The folks designing this intersection (W. Main @ Maple Hill Dr in Kalamazoo) clearly are smoking the good stuff.

From watching the video, it appears you get a permissive left turn (when on-coming is clear). But when you get a protected left turn, drivers can also opt to make a U-turn instead.

U-turns are not permitted during the permissive period if there's a person waiting to turn right out of Maple Hill Dr.

This to me just seems to be asking for all kinds of havoc. We're lucky if we can get people to pull their heads out of their phones long enough to make the left turn safely. But a U-turn?

The weirdest part? You CAN make a direct left into the Marathon or the Maple Hill auto dealer. This U-turn debacle is because of Westgate Dr, which used to be directly accessible with a left turn but no longer is. But all you have to do is make a left at Maple Hill Dr. and a left at Silk Rd to get to the Holiday Inn.

Maybe I'm making more of this than warranted, but I forsee a bunch of U-turners getting into fender benders with right-turners from Maple Hill Dr, and eventually forcing MDOT to block U-turns.


74/171FAN

QuoteMaybe I'm making more of this than warranted, but I forsee a bunch of U-turners getting into fender benders with right-turners from Maple Hill Dr, and eventually forcing MDOT to block U-turns.

Yeah this seems inevitable.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=markkos1992
Mob-Rule:  https://mob-rule.com/user/markkos1992

wanderer2575

Maybe I'm missing something but how is this intersection different from a U-turn on a narrow-median divided highway at a stoplight (for example, here)?  The potential for collisions with turning-right-on-red vehicles from the side street is nothing new.  The head-scratcher for me is where you say that a right turn on red takes priority over a U-turn with a green or permissive.

stevashe

Quote from: wanderer2575 on November 04, 2025, 10:55:27 PMMaybe I'm missing something but how is this intersection different from a U-turn on a narrow-median divided highway at a stoplight (for example, here)?  The potential for collisions with turning-right-on-red vehicles from the side street is nothing new.  The head-scratcher for me is where you say that a right turn on red takes priority over a U-turn with a green or permissive.

The intersection you linked has signals with green arrows for right turns from the side street, which would presumably come on during the protected left phase on OH 14. In that case, it would make sense for a U turn to yield to the right turn.

It's possible this is also the case with that Kalamazoo intersection, but the video doesn't show the signals for the cross street.

I do agree that a U turn shouldn't be fielding to right on red, and I've even seen signs specifically saying that you must yield to u turns when turning right on red.

JREwing78

Quote from: wanderer2575 on November 04, 2025, 10:55:27 PMThe head-scratcher for me is where you say that a right turn on red takes priority over a U-turn with a green or permissive.
That was how the MDOT employee explained it. Yeah, I don't get it either.

Terry Shea

Quote from: JREwing78 on November 03, 2025, 08:34:43 PMThe folks designing this intersection (W. Main @ Maple Hill Dr in Kalamazoo) clearly are smoking the good stuff.

From watching the video, it appears you get a permissive left turn (when on-coming is clear). But when you get a protected left turn, drivers can also opt to make a U-turn instead.

U-turns are not permitted during the permissive period if there's a person waiting to turn right out of Maple Hill Dr.

This to me just seems to be asking for all kinds of havoc. We're lucky if we can get people to pull their heads out of their phones long enough to make the left turn safely. But a U-turn?

The weirdest part? You CAN make a direct left into the Marathon or the Maple Hill auto dealer. This U-turn debacle is because of Westgate Dr, which used to be directly accessible with a left turn but no longer is. But all you have to do is make a left at Maple Hill Dr. and a left at Silk Rd to get to the Holiday Inn.

Maybe I'm making more of this than warranted, but I forsee a bunch of U-turners getting into fender benders with right-turners from Maple Hill Dr, and eventually forcing MDOT to block U-turns.


I'm confused.  I thought MDOT was barred from the city of Kalamazoo!  :-D

Great Lakes Roads


As of today, the interchange at US 131 and BUS-131 in Kalamazoo is now open!
-Jay Seaburg

Clinched States (Interstates): AL, AZ, DE, FL, HI, KS, MN, NE, NH, RI, VT, WI

JREwing78

#2110
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on November 07, 2025, 04:59:20 PMAs of today, the interchange at US 131 and BUS-131 in Kalamazoo is now open!
Now that they've uncorked access to and from US-131 south of the interchange, there's at least three more pending tasks to really unlock the "Northside":

- A roundabout or J-turns where Westnedge meets the freeway BUS US-131. I think a roundabout makes more sense here because it's a location where you want to slow traffic from freeway speeds to neighborhood speeds. This would also facilitate any future plans to return Westnedge and Park St to two-way traffic.

- Improved E-W connectivity on each side of the Kalamazoo River. The "how' here is tricky, because there's considerable development on each side of the river, and only neighborhood streets on the Parchment side to work with.

Short-term, widening N Westnedge to 5 lanes north of Bus US-131 (and maybe a provision for 2 left turn lanes from W Mozel to SBD N Westnedge) will probably get the job done.

Punching a boulevard straight east to the river would involve bisecting the Averitt Express yard, then tying into the Mosel Ave bridge to meet at Riverview Dr. That would absorb the E-W traffic that otherwise would clog up W. Mosel and N Westnedge, but that's a lot of extra roadwork for limited gain (you can't go east without taking out residential properties).

- A connection to Ravine Rd. This will be tricky if trying to preserve the freeway configuration east to Westnedge Ave. The existing Ravine Rd overpass is too close to the new interchange ramps at US-131 for save entry/exit. However, go much farther east and it defeats the purpose of the Ravine Rd exit.

One could do it with a new over/underpass with roundabouts east of the existing overpass and Ravine Apts, with an access road south to Ravine Rd. This access road from the new interchange could extend south and west to connect up with Drake Rd and H Ave, or reconstruct where Drake and Ravine Rd meet as a roundabout.

This interchange location would provide sufficient weave/merge distance to get folks heading SBD US-131 into the correct lane, and time for SBD to EBD Bus US-131 traffic to safely weave right to exit at Ravine Rd. It's also one of the few places MDOT wouldn't have to sink a fortune into tearing up residential areas to plug in a new interchange.



wanderer2575

Quote from: Terry Shea on November 06, 2025, 06:06:22 PMI'm confused.  I thought MDOT was barred from the city of Kalamazoo!  :-D

This intersection is outside the city limits.  A little over three miles of former M-43 east of US-131 is still unsigned MDOT trunkline.

JREwing78

MDOT faces pushback on 'road diet' proposal in Jackson
https://www.wilx.com/2025/11/20/mdot-faces-pushback-road-diet-proposal-jackson/

This is one of those times that MDOT needs to "Just do it" and ignore the complaints from the peanut gallery. Much of this section of Michigan Ave (east of downtown to US-127) is uncomfortably narrow and dangerous to make left turns from (the street measures at 46 feet curb to curb, or 4 11-foot lanes with an extra foot at the curb side). 

Traffic counts are well within the capabilities of a 3-lane alignment west of the fork at Ganson St (about 12,000 vpd - a 3-lane can handle 18,000 vpd). East of Ganson, it's a 5-lane with center turn lane and there's no reason to go narrower here with the heavy commercial area around the Meijer store. 

I'm not sure if MDOT is clearly communicating which section is getting the 3-lane treatment to folks, which is one likely reason it's getting pushback.

This is a ground-up rebuild of the street (including curb & gutters) and would take place in 2027 and 2028.

One example of the narrow quarters we're dealing with: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jackson,+MI/@42.2512953,-84.3849106,3a,75y,72.91h,77.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4rueAwKHnMZSZ7-ax6WzOw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D12.120108856679494%26panoid%3D4rueAwKHnMZSZ7-ax6WzOw%26yaw%3D72.90622499180529!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x883d25593e337b6b:0xce45a6328e9bd551!8m2!3d42.245869!4d-84.4013462!16zL20vMDQydHE?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTExNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D


Flint1979

The city of Saginaw has more road closures than anything just look on Google Maps it's ridiculous. They have had State Street (M-58) in the one way section closed since the Spring, so they make Davenport a normal one way street into a two way street during construction and now Davenport is closed too, as well as Weiss Street, several streets between Davenport and Weiss east of Bay Street, Weiss itself.

All this in the same area of town.

afguy

MDOT eyes quick fix to reopen I-196/US-131 ramp after crash
QuoteAfter initially saying a busy downtown Grand Rapids ramp would be closed for months following a crash, the Michigan Department of Transportation is now saying it hopes to get a temporary fix in place and reopen it around the new year.

The ramp from westbound I-196 to southbound US-131 has been shut down since a semi-truck crashed into it Tuesday morning, causing what MDOT spokesman John Richard called "very significant damage."

"Best-case scenario, we'll have the ramp back open by around the first of the year, and then we'll come back with a ... more permanent fix," Richard told News 8 Wednesday.
https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/after-crash-us-131-ramp-to-close-through-the-end-of-april/

Terry Shea

Quote from: afguy on December 03, 2025, 09:21:01 PMMDOT eyes quick fix to reopen I-196/US-131 ramp after crash
QuoteAfter initially saying a busy downtown Grand Rapids ramp would be closed for months following a crash, the Michigan Department of Transportation is now saying it hopes to get a temporary fix in place and reopen it around the new year.

The ramp from westbound I-196 to southbound US-131 has been shut down since a semi-truck crashed into it Tuesday morning, causing what MDOT spokesman John Richard called "very significant damage."

"Best-case scenario, we'll have the ramp back open by around the first of the year, and then we'll come back with a ... more permanent fix," Richard told News 8 Wednesday.
https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/after-crash-us-131-ramp-to-close-through-the-end-of-april/
They really need to blow up the entire interchange and start over.  Then again, the entire downtown freeway system needs to be redone.

KelleyCook

Quote from: Terry Shea on December 04, 2025, 12:29:41 AMThey really need to blow up the entire interchange and start over.  Then again, the entire downtown freeway system needs to be redone.

Really? That I-196/US-131/(I-296) Interchange is one of my favorite quirky intersections in the country.

In the early 60s, they came up with a design that saved space and eliminated the weaving associated with cloverleafs. Basically US-131 acts as a freeway to freeway DDI decades before someone invented DDIs.

GaryV

Quote from: KelleyCook on December 05, 2025, 01:55:57 PMfreeway to freeway DDI

True, but that design does include left exits and entrances. I still think it's pretty good, but when it opened when I lived there many people disliked it.

Part of the design constraint is being right next to the Grand River. Which also played into the design of the US-131/I-96 interchange a few miles north.


Terry Shea

Quote from: KelleyCook on December 05, 2025, 01:55:57 PM
Quote from: Terry Shea on December 04, 2025, 12:29:41 AMThey really need to blow up the entire interchange and start over.  Then again, the entire downtown freeway system needs to be redone.

Really? That I-196/US-131/(I-296) Interchange is one of my favorite quirky intersections in the country.

In the early 60s, they came up with a design that saved space and eliminated the weaving associated with cloverleafs. Basically US-131 acts as a freeway to freeway DDI decades before someone invented DDIs.
Yeah, it's unique, but it's also as unsafe as can be!  Left exits and entrances, narrow, sharp, steep ramps... how many trucks have simply fallen over the edge, not to mention all of the other horrendous accidents?

ITB


HiMA — New Type of Asphalt Used in Michigan


Last month a stretch of I-96 near Grand River Avenue in Livingston County was rebuilt using an innovative material known as "Highly Modified Asphalt," or HiMA. It was the state's first use of the material.

Considered a next generation asphalt, HiMA mixtures incorporate high polymer content asphalt binders, commonly referred to as HP binders. According to the National Center for Asphalt Technology at Auburn University, HiMA delivers a more rubber-like pavement behavior that resists cracking. Also when HiMA is used, pavement thickness can be reduced, and instead of multiple layers having to be put down, only one is necessary.

Drawback of HiMA include higher costs and a shorter time frame to used the material. However, the pavement is expected to be longer lasting.

Kraton Corporation is a major supplier of the new technology.


 

 


afguy

MDOT completes study analyzing safety, congestion on portion of US-131

QuoteA study on possible improvements to a portion of US-131 has been completed, with state transportation officials now looking to make recommendations.

The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) recently completed a Planning and Environmental Linkages (PEL) study on US-131 between 28th Street and Cherry Street—the busiest road outside of Metro Detroit, MDOT said. The study analyzed current road conditions including safety concerns and issues with congestion, as this section of US-131 sees up to 140,000 vehicles a day. Analysts also studied how to ease traffic impacts on nearby communities.

Congestion issues in this area are partially due to US-131 being built in the 1950s and 1960s, while Grand Rapids has seen significant development and population growth in the decades since.

In the PEL, MDOT said "extensive preservation work" will be necessary within the next 10 years to address road and bridge conditions.

Potential improvement recommendations include adding shoulders, modifying lanes and reconfiguring interchanges to enhance safety, operations, nonmotorized access and local connectivity.
https://www.wzzm13.com/article/traffic/us-131-mdot-study-congestion-safety-recommendations/69-35e509fe-605b-4e89-b4d8-dce272dace79

Terry Shea

Quote from: afguy on December 12, 2025, 08:24:56 PMMDOT completes study analyzing safety, congestion on portion of US-131

QuoteA study on possible improvements to a portion of US-131 has been completed, with state transportation officials now looking to make recommendations.

The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) recently completed a Planning and Environmental Linkages (PEL) study on US-131 between 28th Street and Cherry Street—the busiest road outside of Metro Detroit, MDOT said. The study analyzed current road conditions including safety concerns and issues with congestion, as this section of US-131 sees up to 140,000 vehicles a day. Analysts also studied how to ease traffic impacts on nearby communities.

Congestion issues in this area are partially due to US-131 being built in the 1950s and 1960s, while Grand Rapids has seen significant development and population growth in the decades since.

In the PEL, MDOT said "extensive preservation work" will be necessary within the next 10 years to address road and bridge conditions.

Potential improvement recommendations include adding shoulders, modifying lanes and reconfiguring interchanges to enhance safety, operations, nonmotorized access and local connectivity.
https://www.wzzm13.com/article/traffic/us-131-mdot-study-congestion-safety-recommendations/69-35e509fe-605b-4e89-b4d8-dce272dace79
The problem is between 28th St and Cherry St there's no room to expand, unless Hynes Ave somehow gets turned into Local/Express lanes, and even that wouldn't help most of the project area.  With rail yards, Union Station, Century Ave and other streets and buildings already scraping up against the freeway, I don't see any way to expand, except to go double decker or underground.  But this is MDOT we're talking about, so obviously that's not going to happen.  And even if they did consider it, I don't think the geological surveys would favor doing such, with former gypsum mines, loose soil and a lack of bedrock under-cutting the area.

GaryV

Quote from: Terry Shea on December 14, 2025, 10:20:00 PMI don't think the geological surveys would favor doing such, with former gypsum mines, loose soil and a lack of bedrock under-cutting the area
When we toured the gypsum mines way back when, it was presented as the safest spot to be in an earthquake. So I doubt there's any reason to think they might collapse. Of course Michigan is touted as one of the least likely spots to have an earthquake, precisely because of the underlying gypsum and salt layers.

Terry Shea

Quote from: GaryV on December 15, 2025, 08:11:09 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on December 14, 2025, 10:20:00 PMI don't think the geological surveys would favor doing such, with former gypsum mines, loose soil and a lack of bedrock under-cutting the area
When we toured the gypsum mines way back when, it was presented as the safest spot to be in an earthquake. So I doubt there's any reason to think they might collapse. Of course Michigan is touted as one of the least likely spots to have an earthquake, precisely because of the underlying gypsum and salt layers.
Well, perhaps the "mines" themselves aren't the problem, but the gypsum deposits in the area are.  That's what caused the rebuild of the S-Curve or more specifically, the rebuild of the bridge over the Grand River, circa 2000.

"Traffic problems have long been a concern, with the S-Curve handling 120,000 vehicles per day, but reconstructing the bridge was placed on a fast track in January 1998 after the span over the Grand River settled. The dissolving of gypsum deposits created a void in the bedrock below the river, causing the bridge to shift on its foundation. MDOT repaired the damage, but it was clear that a new span was needed that took the geologic formations into account."

https://www.michiganbuildingtrades.org/newspaper/trades-straighten-u-s-131-s-curve

JREwing78

#2124
So it's 2026, and apparently quite a few folks have no idea what's going on with Michigan's fuel taxes. I've personally observed gas station owners and political candidates trying to spread FUD on social media about what's happening to fuel prices, making it like the gas prices are shooting up 20 cents due to the new tax, and ignoring that the 6% sales tax no longer applies. In effect, the new fuel tax scheme shouldn't affect fuel prices much at all.


I earlier asserted that Michigan had failed to index its fuel tax to inflation. But apparently that was incorrect; there's a mechanism now to adjust fuel tax levies based on the lesser of inflation or 5% per year. Hopefully this quells the stupid roller coaster funding swings from requiring the Legislature to act to adjust the fuel tax levy.

Somehow, the state executive and legislature actually did a decent job addressing the road funding problem despite themselves.