AASHTO Fall 2025 Meeting (Salt Lake City, UT)

[74/171FAN]

Yeah, I am not touching anything in regard to this until I see the applications.  (Again the VA ones seem to mainly be minor realignments due to bridge replacements...)

[bugo]

West Virginia requests its first BUSINESS route...US 52 for Bluefield

Is it the first business highway ever in WV, or were there examples before that have been decommissioned?

[TBKS1]

Similarly to US 78 being expanded into Arkansas, I'm not upset about any of these designations at all and I understand why people are, but I'll always be in favor of new routes being added. Similar to Arkansas, Oklahoma has also done a lot of crazy stuff and nothing they do really surprises me anymore. The only thing I do wonder is why was I-343 chosen instead of I-351? Similar to I-238, at least it matches the state highway designation already there. Anyways, it'll be pretty funny seeing people absolutely lose their shit over the I-343 designation lol

Little bit of an edit later but I think I know why this was done, since they wanted to designate this as a spur route of both I-40 and I-44, and didn't want to split the difference with I-42 still being planned between Tulsa and NWA, at least that's what I think.

Regarding US 64 Business being removed in Arkansas, which section is it? I'm not seeing which section this is, I'd assume it's either Mulberry, Earle, or Crawfordsville as I could see those sections as being otherwise useless.

[Mapmikey]

West Virginia requests its first BUSINESS route...US 52 for Bluefield

Is it the first business highway ever in WV, or were there examples before that have been decommissioned?

First one ever.

[Great Lakes Roads]

It worked!

Interstate applications:

• Oklahoma -> I-644, which I believe is the Creek Turnpike
• Oklahoma -> I-343, for the Muskogee Turnpike.... cue griping about that number
• Apparently Pennsylvania submitted an application for an Interstate designation for some of PA-33, US-22, US-209?? that seems crazy. All were rejected.

Call me crazy, but I could see the Indian Nation Turnpike (INT) gets redesignated into I-340...

[Molandfreak]

Similarly to US 78 being expanded into Arkansas, I'm not upset about any of these designations at all and I understand why people are, but I'll always be in favor of new routes being added. Similar to Arkansas, Oklahoma has also done a lot of crazy stuff and nothing they do really surprises me anymore. The only thing I do wonder is why was I-343 chosen instead of I-351? Similar to I-238, at least it matches the state highway designation already there. Anyways, it'll be pretty funny seeing people absolutely lose their shit over the I-343 designation lol

Little bit of an edit later but I think I know why this was done, since they wanted to designate this as a spur route of both I-40 and I-44, and didn't want to split the difference with I-42 still being planned between Tulsa and NWA, at least that's what I think.

Regarding US 64 Business being removed in Arkansas, which section is it? I'm not seeing which section this is, I'd assume it's either Mulberry, Earle, or Crawfordsville as I could see those sections as being otherwise useless.

I'd rather have people lose their shit over what actually will be I-42 being I-50. As-is, they are ensuring that Tulsa will never, ever have a major interstate within its borders. This spur can be I-42.

[TBKS1]

Similarly to US 78 being expanded into Arkansas, I'm not upset about any of these designations at all and I understand why people are, but I'll always be in favor of new routes being added. Similar to Arkansas, Oklahoma has also done a lot of crazy stuff and nothing they do really surprises me anymore. The only thing I do wonder is why was I-343 chosen instead of I-351? Similar to I-238, at least it matches the state highway designation already there. Anyways, it'll be pretty funny seeing people absolutely lose their shit over the I-343 designation lol

Little bit of an edit later but I think I know why this was done, since they wanted to designate this as a spur route of both I-40 and I-44, and didn't want to split the difference with I-42 still being planned between Tulsa and NWA, at least that's what I think.

Regarding US 64 Business being removed in Arkansas, which section is it? I'm not seeing which section this is, I'd assume it's either Mulberry, Earle, or Crawfordsville as I could see those sections as being otherwise useless.

I'd rather have people lose their shit over what actually will be I-42 being I-50. As-is, they are ensuring that Tulsa will never, ever have a major interstate within its borders. This spur can be I-42.

I didn't realize Interstate 44 wasn't considered part of a major cross-country arterial, but alright then.

[Molandfreak]

Similarly to US 78 being expanded into Arkansas, I'm not upset about any of these designations at all and I understand why people are, but I'll always be in favor of new routes being added. Similar to Arkansas, Oklahoma has also done a lot of crazy stuff and nothing they do really surprises me anymore. The only thing I do wonder is why was I-343 chosen instead of I-351? Similar to I-238, at least it matches the state highway designation already there. Anyways, it'll be pretty funny seeing people absolutely lose their shit over the I-343 designation lol

Little bit of an edit later but I think I know why this was done, since they wanted to designate this as a spur route of both I-40 and I-44, and didn't want to split the difference with I-42 still being planned between Tulsa and NWA, at least that's what I think.

Regarding US 64 Business being removed in Arkansas, which section is it? I'm not seeing which section this is, I'd assume it's either Mulberry, Earle, or Crawfordsville as I could see those sections as being otherwise useless.

I'd rather have people lose their shit over what actually will be I-42 being I-50. As-is, they are ensuring that Tulsa will never, ever have a major interstate within its borders. This spur can be I-42.

I didn't realize Interstate 44 wasn't considered part of a major cross-country arterial, but alright then.

If the FHWA revised the definitions to include every x4 interstate, that would also satisfy the criteria, plus it would put three of the cities larger than Tulsa without an x0 or x5 on a major corridor.

With the risk of being chased off by an angry mob, allow me to explain why this is the perfect place for I-50, and why "I will go as far to say any answer to the question 'what number should this get' that isn't 50 is incorrect."

While it's true that the upgrade starts and ends in places that aren't exactly major, there is a gap that needs to be filled by the backbones of the Interstate system: the Tulsa metropolitan area crossed one million residents this census, and is the 55th-largest metro in the country. Of the 54 metro areas larger than Tulsa, there are only six metro areas that are not served by at least one x0 or x5 Interstate: Orlando, San Jose*, Milwaukee, Hartford, Grand Rapids, and Honolulu.

I would say the fact that designating this as I-50 would put Tulsa on a major Interstate instantly makes it less of a joke than I-30 or I-45. I-30 serves DFW (already served by I-20, I-35, and I-45) and Little Rock (already served by I-40), so excluding those leaves Texarkana, whose metro area is home to a measly 150K. And I-45 serves Dallas (again, already served by I-20, I-30, and I-35) and Houston (already served by I-10), so excluding those leaves the Huntsville micropolitan area, home to about 70K, and the Corsicana micropolitan area, home to about 50K.

There are probably no other routes in this area with a remote chance of being upgraded to a freeway within the next hundred years, and the only other state that seems to be interested in pursuing new Interstates where an I-50 would fit (North Carolina) passed on the chance to designate I-50 multiple times.

And the point of it crossing I-44 is moot, since that's to be expected of a diagonal route, and I-40 crosses it anyway.

*San Jose is served by I-280, I-480, and I-680, so you could reasonably argue I-80 indirectly serves the area.

[WillWeaverRVA]

Move over I-238...

[Revive 755]

• Oklahoma -> I-343, for the Muskogee Turnpike.... cue griping about that number

A southern I-43 would have made more sense here than this.

[TBKS1]

If the FHWA revised the definitions to include every x4 interstate, that would also satisfy the criteria, plus it would put three of the cities larger than Tulsa without an x0 or x5 on a major corridor.

Let me just go on the record here and say I literally do not care about the FHWA definition, at all. I don't believe in, or frankly even care about numbering conventions for Interstate and US Highways, regardless of how important people believe they are. If you're trying to get me to believe this point, you're basically speaking towards a brick wall.

[Rothman]

Similarly to US 78 being expanded into Arkansas, I'm not upset about any of these designations at all and I understand why people are, but I'll always be in favor of new routes being added. Similar to Arkansas, Oklahoma has also done a lot of crazy stuff and nothing they do really surprises me anymore. The only thing I do wonder is why was I-343 chosen instead of I-351? Similar to I-238, at least it matches the state highway designation already there. Anyways, it'll be pretty funny seeing people absolutely lose their shit over the I-343 designation lol

Little bit of an edit later but I think I know why this was done, since they wanted to designate this as a spur route of both I-40 and I-44, and didn't want to split the difference with I-42 still being planned between Tulsa and NWA, at least that's what I think.

Regarding US 64 Business being removed in Arkansas, which section is it? I'm not seeing which section this is, I'd assume it's either Mulberry, Earle, or Crawfordsville as I could see those sections as being otherwise useless.

I'd rather have people lose their shit over what actually will be I-42 being I-50. As-is, they are ensuring that Tulsa will never, ever have a major interstate within its borders. This spur can be I-42.

I didn't realize Interstate 44 wasn't considered part of a major cross-country arterial, but alright then.

If the FHWA revised the definitions to include every x4 interstate, that would also satisfy the criteria, plus it would put three of the cities larger than Tulsa without an x0 or x5 on a major corridor.

Wut.

[Molandfreak]

Similarly to US 78 being expanded into Arkansas, I'm not upset about any of these designations at all and I understand why people are, but I'll always be in favor of new routes being added. Similar to Arkansas, Oklahoma has also done a lot of crazy stuff and nothing they do really surprises me anymore. The only thing I do wonder is why was I-343 chosen instead of I-351? Similar to I-238, at least it matches the state highway designation already there. Anyways, it'll be pretty funny seeing people absolutely lose their shit over the I-343 designation lol

Little bit of an edit later but I think I know why this was done, since they wanted to designate this as a spur route of both I-40 and I-44, and didn't want to split the difference with I-42 still being planned between Tulsa and NWA, at least that's what I think.

Regarding US 64 Business being removed in Arkansas, which section is it? I'm not seeing which section this is, I'd assume it's either Mulberry, Earle, or Crawfordsville as I could see those sections as being otherwise useless.

I'd rather have people lose their shit over what actually will be I-42 being I-50. As-is, they are ensuring that Tulsa will never, ever have a major interstate within its borders. This spur can be I-42.

I didn't realize Interstate 44 wasn't considered part of a major cross-country arterial, but alright then.

If the FHWA revised the definitions to include every x4 interstate, that would also satisfy the criteria, plus it would put three of the cities larger than Tulsa without an x0 or x5 on a major corridor.

Wut.

Someone didn't read the self-quote.

[Henry]

• Oklahoma -> I-343, for the Muskogee Turnpike.... cue griping about that number

A southern I-43 would have made more sense here than this.

At least I-43 exists, and I-38 still does not.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Why the fuck did they pick 343? The existing highway designation is OK 351, if they had made that a bastard I-351 like 238 I could at least see the logic, but why pick a new number out of a hat?

[TheHighwayMan3561]

What from US 18 was eliminated in Wisconsin?

[Molandfreak]

What from US 18 was eliminated in Wisconsin?

The only possibility I can think of is maybe the pre-bypass alignment through Waukesha is still on the books.

[Scott5114]

Why the fuck did they pick 343?

Having lived there for 33 years, I can confidently say it is because the government of Oklahoma is run by some of the stupidest motherfuckers you'll ever meet.

[vdeane]

Well, AASHTO has officially jumped the shark (if they haven't already).  Is it too late to say that the numbering system for the interstate highways is dead?

Moving on from the obvious, does anyone have any idea what West Virginia is doing with US 11?  Where is it being realigned to?

Also, does this mean that US 1 now has a gap in South Carolina?

Apparently Pennsylvania submitted an application for an Interstate designation for some of PA-33, US-22, US-209?? that seems crazy. All were rejected.

Eh, not so crazy if the limits are what I think.  PA 33 is a freeway its whole length from I-78 to PA 611 just north of I-80, as is US 22 from I-78 to PA 33 and US 209 forking off from PA 33 to I-80 (although that last one is a recent development with the traffic light being converted into a pair of RIROs).

• Oklahoma -> I-343, for the Muskogee Turnpike.... cue griping about that number

A southern I-43 would have made more sense here than this.

At least I-43 exists, and I-38 still does not.

I would argue that that makes it worse.

[CoreySamson]

LOOOOOLLLLLLL. Is this number the work of INCOG?

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/about-us/transportation-comission/agenda/2025/r/tc_agenda-202505.pdf

A new interstate designation will be coming to the Muskogee Turnpike from the Creek Turnpike to I-40.

The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority and the Indian Nation Council of Governments have requested to redesignate the Muskogee Turnpike as Interstate 343.

a) Add the designation of I-343 to a 52.31-mile stretch of Turnpike known as the Muskogee Turnpike, beginning at the Junction of the Creek Turnpike and the Muskogee Turnpike and continuing south to the junction of the Muskogee Turnpike and I-40. 

Establish new Interstate to be a junction off I-44.

Huh?

Did Angelo71 get a hold of AASHTO?

[Mapmikey]

My guess: US 1 has a new bridge over I-20 in Lexington resulting in a short abandoned segment.

I found the OK highway commission item approving I-343. There was no verbiage regarding the choice of the number.

[ElishaGOtis]

Wouldn't it be funny if a southern I-43 actually is in the plans and all this jeering over 343 is as a result of a simple miscommunication?    granted if one isn't being considered the outrage is justified imho

ALSO...
Regarding PA, maybe it was proposed to be an extension of 380?

[bugo]

Wouldn't it be funny if a southern I-43 actually is in the plans and all this jeering over 343 is as a result of a simple miscommunication?    granted if one isn't being considered the outrage is justified

The only highway corridor in Tulsa that could be I-43 and fit into the system would be the US 75 corridor. The Muskogee Turnpike doesn't meet US 75, and since the Creek Turnpike is going to be I-644, "I-343" won't meet a "child" route. This is just a typo by the morons who wrote up the route description. Unfortunately, the AASHTO committee members were too high from smoking sherm that they missed the obvious typo.

[Rothman]

Similarly to US 78 being expanded into Arkansas, I'm not upset about any of these designations at all and I understand why people are, but I'll always be in favor of new routes being added. Similar to Arkansas, Oklahoma has also done a lot of crazy stuff and nothing they do really surprises me anymore. The only thing I do wonder is why was I-343 chosen instead of I-351? Similar to I-238, at least it matches the state highway designation already there. Anyways, it'll be pretty funny seeing people absolutely lose their shit over the I-343 designation lol

Little bit of an edit later but I think I know why this was done, since they wanted to designate this as a spur route of both I-40 and I-44, and didn't want to split the difference with I-42 still being planned between Tulsa and NWA, at least that's what I think.

Regarding US 64 Business being removed in Arkansas, which section is it? I'm not seeing which section this is, I'd assume it's either Mulberry, Earle, or Crawfordsville as I could see those sections as being otherwise useless.

I'd rather have people lose their shit over what actually will be I-42 being I-50. As-is, they are ensuring that Tulsa will never, ever have a major interstate within its borders. This spur can be I-42.

I didn't realize Interstate 44 wasn't considered part of a major cross-country arterial, but alright then.

If the FHWA revised the definitions to include every x4 interstate, that would also satisfy the criteria, plus it would put three of the cities larger than Tulsa without an x0 or x5 on a major corridor.

Wut.

Someone didn't read the self-quote.

Wut.

To which FHWA definitions are you referring?

[GaryV]

it'll be pretty funny seeing people absolutely lose their shit over the I-343 designation lol

Nah, we'll just have a bunch of posts about how to get I-43 routed all the way down from Wisconsin.