Face it, geeks, US 412 is here to stay

[Scott5114]

It didn't, directly, but religious superstition caused a lot of whinging about how the highway was "cursed", and led to lots of sign theft. It was easier to just renumber it rather than deal with all of that.

[bugo]

It's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs?  When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables.  This was undoubtedly done to appease the Fundamentalist Christians in the area.  If somebody is stupid enough to believe that a road is "cursed" because of its number then why does anyone care what they think?

[J N Winkler]

It's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs?  When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables.  This was undoubtedly done to appease the Fundamentalist Christians in the area.  If somebody is stupid enough to believe that a road is "cursed" because of its number then why does anyone care what they think?

We discussed this pretty thoroughly back in the MTR days.  Going point by point:

*  Most of US 666 passed through the Navajo reservation, and most of the energy in favor of renumbering it was coming from Navajos--not because they are fundamentalist Christians, but rather because they were tired of outsiders raised in the Christian tradition (whether they were themselves Christian or not) coming to US 666 to pull badass stunts just because the highway's number matched the Number of the Beast as given in Revelations.  It is actually hard to imagine a US highway corridor anywhere else that has as low a proportion of evangelical Christians as US 666; Navajos have their own religion, and Utah is Mormon.

*  The US 666 corridor was and is very thinly populated, so changing residents' addresses, updating mapping applications, etc. was hardly onerous.  The only towns of any size US 666 passed through were Gallup (22,000), Shiprock and Cortez (both 8,000), and Monticello (2,000).

[Laura]

It's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs?  When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables.  This was undoubtedly done to appease the Fundamentalist Christians in the area.  If somebody is stupid enough to believe that a road is "cursed" because of its number then why does anyone care what they think?

There's an old boundary stone near where I live on US 1 that basically has engraved on it that anyone who removes the stone will be cursed. It is smack up against the road on the north side. I am sure that was taken into consideration when they widened the road to four lanes, and will probably stay if they ever widen the road again at any point.


iPhone

[hbelkins]

It's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs?  When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables.

Changing the number of a road doesn't necessarily mean that the name of the road changes as well.

Granted, some communities (such as my home county) names roads for 911 or postal addressing purposes by the state-assigned route number, so we have addresses such as "NNNN Highway 52 West" even though the local tradition has always been to call that road "Irvine Road." However, other counties give names to their state highways and the name wouldn't change if the route number is changed. In Estill County, for instance, KY 1571 is known as Millers Creek Road for 911 and mail delivery purposes. It connects to KY 52 on both ends and serves as a shortcut for through KY 52 traffic because it runs along a river valley and avoids a mountain crossing. If KY 52 is ever rerouted along that route, it will continue to be Millers Creek Road and addresses will be unaffected.

[agentsteel53]

There's an old boundary stone near where I live on US 1 that basically has engraved on it that anyone who removes the stone will be cursed.

apparently "survey monument.  penalty for defacement or removal." was too high-falutin' sciency?

[Henry]

It's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs?  When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables.  This was undoubtedly done to appease the Fundamentalist Christians in the area.  If somebody is stupid enough to believe that a road is "cursed" because of its number then why does anyone care what they think?

We discussed this pretty thoroughly back in the MTR days.  Going point by point:

*  Most of US 666 passed through the Navajo reservation, and most of the energy in favor of renumbering it was coming from Navajos--not because they are fundamentalist Christians, but rather because they were tired of outsiders raised in the Christian tradition (whether they were themselves Christian or not) coming to US 666 to pull badass stunts just because the highway's number matched the Number of the Beast as given in Revelations.  It is actually hard to imagine a US highway corridor anywhere else that has as low a proportion of evangelical Christians as US 666; Navajos have their own religion, and Utah is Mormon.

*  The US 666 corridor was and is very thinly populated, so changing residents' addresses, updating mapping applications, etc. was hardly onerous.  The only towns of any size US 666 passed through were Gallup (22,000), Shiprock and Cortez (both 8,000), and Monticello (2,000).

Besides, I'm sure that sign theft occurs on roads numbered 13, 69 and 420 as well.

[hotdogPi]

Besides, I'm sure that sign theft occurs on roads numbered 13, 69 and 420 as well.

I don't think anyone has stolen anything on MA/NH 13.

However, mile marker 66.6 is missing on US 1 in Massachusetts. (66.4 and 66.8 exist, as well as those around it.)

[bugo]

Besides, I'm sure that sign theft occurs on roads numbered 13, 69 and 420 as well.

Good point.  US 69 runs not too far from here, and I haven't seen any missing signs.

Another number that fits this category is 66.  I see plenty of historic US 66 signs and hundreds of OK 66 signs and they don't often get stolen.

I did, however, notice two missing US 271 shields a few miles apart from each other on a fact finding mission into southeastern Oklahoma last week.

[Scott5114]

I spoke with a guy from MoDOT once (he was in the geology division, so take that as you will) and he mentioned that the US-69 marker is the most frequently stolen sign in the state of Missouri. Pretty impressive when you consider how short US-69 is in MO compared to other highways.

Texas renumbered their SH-69, noting specifically it was because of sign theft in the minute order. New Jersey used wooden signs on SR-69, the only route that they did this for, before it was renumbered (Steve has one), and there is little else that could explain why that was done other than because the signs were being repeatedly stolen so they wanted to reduce their cost.

Something that factors into the cost of the theft is labor. Someone has to make the sign, then a couple of guys have to take the sign truck out there, put the sign up, and come back, which is all done on the clock. If you have signs constantly disappearing you probably have to start sending a guy through to patrol for missing signs. The cost of all of these things adds up pretty fast, to the point where renumbering starts to look like the cheaper long-term option.

[english si]

Texas renumbered their SH-69, noting specifically it was because of sign theft in the minute order.

Which makes the I-69 everywhere even more odd!

[hbelkins]

I have never heard any issues about sign theft on KY 69.

[vdeane]

Texas renumbered their SH-69, noting specifically it was because of sign theft in the minute order.

Which makes the I-69 everywhere even more odd!

Maybe it's one big subsidy for the sign makers?

[Crazy Volvo Guy]

Hell, in Wisconsin every flipping thing is "highway" anyway.  The Cheeseheads will never notice the difference between an I-41 and a US-41.  To them, it's still "Highway 41". 

If they even say "highway".  Saying the number or letter(s) alone without anything else is frequently done.
[/quote]

This sounds like "Anywhere, USA."

[tidecat]

I actually have more issue with US 425 since US 47 has never been used.

If I had been a legislator from Middle Tennessee, I would have pushed for the route to have been designated US 76 with a connection between the east end of 412 in Columbia and the current west end of US 76 in Chattanooga via TN 99 and TN 270.

[wxfree]

Texas renumbered their SH-69, noting specifically it was because of sign theft in the minute order.

Which makes the I-69 everywhere even more odd!

Maybe that's why they went with the I-69W designation on the Laredo leg, to reduce the number of signs likely to be stolen.