ABC, CBS, FOX & NBC Have Lost More Than 77% Of Their Market Share

[Scott5114]

You don't have to be one to talk to them. Being in a 3,000+ member church gives wide exposure to all age groups.

Narrow exposure to Christians.

[Max Rockatansky]

You don't have to be one to talk to them. Being in a 3,000+ member church gives wide exposure to all age groups.

Narrow exposure to Christians.

Who definitely are not a representative sample of the overall modern youth demographic. 

[Max Rockatansky]

*looks up MGTOW*
My word...

What comes up is the Wikipedia article that has enough feces to bury a horse.

Dang, someone didn't care for the article on maximum gross takeoff weight.

[Rothman]

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I mean, any group that adheres to a questionable sense of morality can present themselves in a positive manner.  Otherwise, no one would join up.

[Max Rockatansky]

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I'm sitting wondering how the 1970s dating pool is somehow superior than it is today?  At least most people these days don't smoke cigarettes like chimneys. 

[Beltway]

You don't have to be one to talk to them. Being in a 3,000+ member church gives wide exposure to all age groups.

Narrow exposure to Christians.

1/3 or more of people who attend even evangelical churches are not born-again Christians or are not yet.

You can talk to people in your family, neighborhood, stores, work, volunteer groups, etc.

You've got the whole internet -- you have the opinions of millions of young men (and people in general) at your fingertips on articles, forums and YouTube discussions.

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I'm sitting wondering how the 1970s dating pool is somehow superior than it is today?  At least most people these days don't smoke cigarettes like chimneys. 

Well they didn't cover their bodies with tattoos, nose rings, metal implants, etc. They weren't run though more times than the Holland Tunnel. At least it was just a very small percentage then.

[Max Rockatansky]

You'd be better off going to your local gym to get the median opinion on dating from the average 18-25 male demographic.  Even then those opinions would skew heavily towards heterosexual and meathead types.

[Beltway]

A neutral, supporter‑aligned definition of MGTOW
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) is a self‑described lifestyle philosophy in which men choose to prioritize personal autonomy, self‑direction, and individual goals rather than pursuing traditional expectations around relationships, marriage, or family roles.
Supporters describe it as a way for men to focus on their own well‑being, financial independence, and personal development without feeling obligated to conform to social pressures or norms about how men "should" live.

So neutral, I can smell the basement it came from.

I can smell the spinsters that this came from -- "an anti-feminist, misogynistic, mostly online community that espouses male separatism from what they see as a gynocentric society that has been corrupted by feminism" ... "pickup artists, players, alt-right, male supremacist" and so on.

By far most of them have simply had multiple bad experiences in dating, cohabs, marriage, over a period of years or even decades, and they don't want to deal with it anymore. Over 70% of divorces in the U.S. are initiated by women. Men lose half of their assets, lose living with their children, have massive payouts for years, and so on.

[Beltway]

You'd be better off going to your local gym to get the median opinion on dating from the average 18-25 male demographic.  Even then those opinions would skew heavily towards heterosexual and meathead types.

A gym is not a representative place to find the "median opinion" of 18–25‑year‑old men. Gym‑goers are a self‑selected subgroup: more physically oriented, more extroverted, more traditionally masculine, and more likely to have dating experience. So yes, opinions you hear there will skew toward that culture. But the actual median young man today is not a regular gym‑goer, is less socially confident, spends more time online, and has very different dating experiences and attitudes. So you are partly right about gym culture, but wrong about it reflecting the average 18–25 male.

I don't use gyms but I hear that about equal numbers of women attend them as well. I have heard men complain about being hit on by women there when all they want to do is focus on their physical fitness.

[Max Rockatansky]

You'd be better off going to your local gym to get the median opinion on dating from the average 18-25 male demographic.  Even then those opinions would skew heavily towards heterosexual and meathead types.

A gym is not a representative place to find the "median opinion" of 18–25‑year‑old men. Gym‑goers are a self‑selected subgroup: more physically oriented, more extroverted, more traditionally masculine, and more likely to have dating experience. So yes, opinions you hear there will skew toward that culture. But the actual median young man today is not a regular gym‑goer, is less socially confident, spends more time online, and has very different dating experiences and attitudes. So you are partly right about gym culture, but wrong about it reflecting the average 18–25 male.

I don't use gyms but I hear that about equal numbers of women attend them as well.

And yet you seem to believe that Christian church going males who are inactive are somehow more representative of 18-25 year old males?  If I'm understanding you correct then you also believe that church goers are less socially confident? 

[Beltway]

I don't use gyms but I hear that about equal numbers of women attend them as well.

And yet you seem to believe that Christian church going males who are inactive are somehow more representative of 18-25 year old males?  You also believe that church goers are less socially confident? 

I don't claim to have a representative sample. I was questioned, so I listed a list of places where someone my age can get at least some reasonable idea of what that demographic is experiencing.

[formulanone]

I think a society that doesn't protect a woman from financial ruin if her husband leaves her is objectively worse than one that does, whether the community agrees that her ruin is acceptable or not.

The problem is about 10:1 in the opposite direction, documented by men's rights groups. father's rights groups, the manosphere and MGTOW groups.

Family courts destroy men on a grand scale.

Ehhhhhhhhhhh..... No......

*looks up MGTOW*

My word...

Thankfully every time I see that acronym I think of the constant fate befalling many of Morris Garages' neat little cars, and not so much the bloviators who have everything, willfully fuck it up, and want no repercussions for their actions, betraying the truth of  dealing with their hand-made consequences.

[Molandfreak]

A neutral, supporter‑aligned definition of MGTOW
Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) is a self‑described lifestyle philosophy in which men choose to prioritize personal autonomy, self‑direction, and individual goals rather than pursuing traditional expectations around relationships, marriage, or family roles.
Supporters describe it as a way for men to focus on their own well‑being, financial independence, and personal development without feeling obligated to conform to social pressures or norms about how men "should" live.

So neutral, I can smell the basement it came from.

I can smell the spinsters that this came from -- "an anti-feminist, misogynistic, mostly online community that espouses male separatism from what they see as a gynocentric society that has been corrupted by feminism" ... "pickup artists, players, alt-right, male supremacist" and so on.

By far most of them have simply had multiple bad experiences in dating, cohabs, marriage, over a period of years or even decades, and they don't want to deal with it anymore. Over 70% of divorces in the U.S. are initiated by women. Men lose half of their assets, lose living with their children, have massive payouts for years, and so on.

Spinsters like The Daily Mail? That isn't exactly known as being wokesville, dude.

[Beltway]

Thankfully every time I see that acronym I think of the constant fate befalling many of Morris Garages' neat little cars.

They're 70‑year‑old antiques now — you preserve them, not commute in them. My 1954 MG TF 1500 only comes out for shows and good‑weather runs. The days of MGs being stranded on the shoulder ended decades ago.

[Molandfreak]

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I'm sitting wondering how the 1970s dating pool is somehow superior than it is today?  At least most people these days don't smoke cigarettes like chimneys. 

Well they didn't cover their bodies with tattoos, nose rings, metal implants, etc. They weren't run though more times than the Holland Tunnel. At least it was just a very small percentage then.

Aww man, did a goth baddie reject you or something?

[Max Rockatansky]

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I'm sitting wondering how the 1970s dating pool is somehow superior than it is today?  At least most people these days don't smoke cigarettes like chimneys. 

Well they didn't cover their bodies with tattoos, nose rings, metal implants, etc. They weren't run though more times than the Holland Tunnel. At least it was just a very small percentage then.

Aww man, did a goth baddie reject you or something?

The tattoo stuff never bothered me all that much.  I dated a woman from 2008-2010 when I lived in Arizona that had a lot of tattoos.  She was originally from Washington state but definitely would never be mistaken as goth (blond hair, blue eyes and generally had a cheerful disposition).  She on occasion wore a small nose stud but it isn't super common. 

Ironically she was the only woman I dated who semi-regularly smoked cigarettes.  Now THAT did actually bother me a little bit.  Sure seemed odd that a distance cyclists and avid hiker would want anything to do with tobacco.

[Molandfreak]

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I'm sitting wondering how the 1970s dating pool is somehow superior than it is today?  At least most people these days don't smoke cigarettes like chimneys. 

Well they didn't cover their bodies with tattoos, nose rings, metal implants, etc. They weren't run though more times than the Holland Tunnel. At least it was just a very small percentage then.

Aww man, did a goth baddie reject you or something?

The tattoo stuff never bothered me all that much.  I dated a woman from 2008-2010 when I lived in Arizona that had a lot of tattoos.  She was originally from Washington state but definitely would never be mistaken as goth (blond hair, blue eyes and generally had a cheerful disposition).  She on occasion wore a small nose stud but it isn't super common. 

Ironically she was the only woman I dated who semi-regularly smoked cigarettes.  Now THAT did actually bother me a little bit.  Sure seemed odd that a distance cyclists and avid hiker would want anything to do with tobacco.

I don't know if Beltway just hasn't considered the possibility that someone could have a lot of tattoos and piercings and still be religious. Or just not dating someone with tattoos and piercings if he doesn't like that look. Why make the choices others make your problem?

[Rothman]

As a regular church-goer myself, I don't see how church attendance alone by older fuddy-duddies like me exposes me to all the mentalities and dating habits/rituals of the younger generations.  Sitting around and listening to sermons certainly doesn't.

I suppose if I were teaching Sunday School or something like that to kids -- which I have done in the past -- it is something more of a window.  I do pick up the occasional pop cultural reference from helping out with the youth here and there, but nothing more than that now.  Still, there's something very Steve-Buscemi-How-Do-You-Do-Fellow-Kids about the overall assertion that because one simply goes to church that has kids in the congregation that one understands kids.

But, have to say there's no better window into what the younger generations are doing than one's own children, especially if they're thrown into public school systems.  As my own kids have aged up and out, I do find myself not as much in touch with what's hip as I was just a few years ago, though, rather sadly (it was fun being a wannabe-cool parent).

***

Also wonder about Beltway's views of divorce, given his language that men "lose half of their assets," as if men own everything in a marriage and a wife doesn't have a stake, let alone whatever happens in the resolution of non-heterosexual marriages/divorces (had lawyer friends refer happily to the legalization of gay marriage as the legalization of gay divorce).  Frankly, in the divorce experiences I've been more than privy to, divorces are as adversarial as the parties want them to be.  Seen divorces that were quite amicable and quick with little fiscal effect, while others tried judges' patiences as the vitriol unnecessarily dragged out proceedings and were more self-destructive. 

Marriage has and will always have an economic obligation to it (heck, read your Old Testament on that one), so caveat emptor.  And to those that are simply frustrated, either sexually or emotionally because they can't get into a relationship, I see getting bitter and angry at the other sex for somehow denying them something to which they think they are somehow entitled to just be a route for more bitterness and anger.

[Max Rockatansky]

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I'm sitting wondering how the 1970s dating pool is somehow superior than it is today?  At least most people these days don't smoke cigarettes like chimneys. 

Well they didn't cover their bodies with tattoos, nose rings, metal implants, etc. They weren't run though more times than the Holland Tunnel. At least it was just a very small percentage then.

Aww man, did a goth baddie reject you or something?

The tattoo stuff never bothered me all that much.  I dated a woman from 2008-2010 when I lived in Arizona that had a lot of tattoos.  She was originally from Washington state but definitely would never be mistaken as goth (blond hair, blue eyes and generally had a cheerful disposition).  She on occasion wore a small nose stud but it isn't super common. 

Ironically she was the only woman I dated who semi-regularly smoked cigarettes.  Now THAT did actually bother me a little bit.  Sure seemed odd that a distance cyclists and avid hiker would want anything to do with tobacco.

I don't know if Beltway just hasn't considered the possibility that someone could have a lot of tattoos and piercings and still be religious. Or just not dating someone with tattoos and piercings if he doesn't like that look. Why make the choices others make your problem?

My older brother and sister in law are very religious Christians.  Both of them are heavily tattooed and add new ones frequently.

[Big John]

This went off on a tangent. Separation of marriage topic?

[Max Rockatansky]

This went off on a tangent. Separation of marriage topic?

Ratings on this thread are up 77% since we began discussing divorce and the ethics of premarital sex.

[Rothman]

This went off on a tangent. Separation of marriage topic?

Even as someone who's a thread purist, it's a bit late for that, given where the thread seemed to have drifted from talking about the networks: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=37013.msg3037200#msg3037200

[Beltway]

As a regular church-goer myself, I don't see how church attendance alone by older fuddy-duddies like me exposes me to all the mentalities and dating habits/rituals of the younger generations.  Sitting around and listening to sermons certainly doesn't.

As I listed, there are multiple ways to get a handle on what younger generations are thinking nowadays. Religion is only one.

[Beltway]

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I'm sitting wondering how the 1970s dating pool is somehow superior than it is today?  At least most people these days don't smoke cigarettes like chimneys. 

Well they didn't cover their bodies with tattoos, nose rings, metal implants, etc. They weren't run though more times than the Holland Tunnel. At least it was just a very small percentage then.

Aww man, did a goth baddie reject you or something?

At my age I would not date a woman young enough to be my granddaughter.

[Molandfreak]

Well, this certainly took a very dark turn.

I'm sitting wondering how the 1970s dating pool is somehow superior than it is today?  At least most people these days don't smoke cigarettes like chimneys. 

Well they didn't cover their bodies with tattoos, nose rings, metal implants, etc. They weren't run though more times than the Holland Tunnel. At least it was just a very small percentage then.

Aww man, did a goth baddie reject you or something?

At my age I would not date a woman young enough to be my granddaughter.

Whatever you have to say to lift your spirits up, playa.