Virginia

[oscar]

Still this doesn't change the fact that practically all other 49 states would post a freeway with identical geometry at 60 or 65 mph in full compliance with FHWA guidelines.

"Practically" is doing some heavy lifting in that sentence. One of those other 49 states, Hawaii, doesn't post anything over 60mph, no matter how wonderful the geometry. It was the last vestige of the 55mph national maximum speed limit, until a failed speed camera experiment where county police often made obscene gestures at the cameras, which led Hawaii DOT to raise some speed limits to 60mph.

[sprjus4]

VDOT can post whatever they please on I-264, the typically running speeds are very much north of 65 mph in Virginia Beach. East of Independence Blvd, all the interchanges are spaced over a mile apart. The roadway geometry was designed with a 70 mph design speed.

[Pink Jazz]

VDOT can post whatever they please on I-264, the typically running speeds are very much north of 65 mph in Virginia Beach. East of Independence Blvd, all the interchanges are spaced over a mile apart. The roadway geometry was designed with a 70 mph design speed.

That is why I am requesting FHWA intervention, because VDOT's artifically low 55 mph speed limit is not MUTCD compliant. I am not sure if the Virginia MUTCD has different rules from the national MUTCD, but state MUTCDs are required to be substantially compliant with the national MUTCD. If the reason is to increase revenue by issuing more speeding tickets, this is likely not compliant with MUTCD rules.

[1995hoo]

It's not an MUTCD issue. A Virginia statute sets the speed limit. Anything above 55 requires a traffic and engineering study. VDOT typically refuses to perform those on urban and suburban mainline highways. The FHWA has no authority over the issue and has not since late 1995.

[Pink Jazz]

It's not an MUTCD issue. A Virginia statute sets the speed limit. Anything above 55 requires a traffic and engineering study. VDOT typically refuses to perform those on urban and suburban mainline highways. The FHWA has no authority over the issue and has not since late 1995.

Why can't the FHWA or local governments order a study then? VDOT is just dragging their feet since they know that a study would warrant an increase in the speed limit. 

[Mapmikey]

So, there's this:  You cannot post a 70 mph speed limit in Virginia by law on an unseparated HOV lane(s).  See the 3rd paragraph here: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title46.2/chapter8/article8/

Since I-264 has this from Rosemont Rd west, I-264 cannot be posted at 70 mph.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZcumdnrQJ8Ynakc16

That law does not mention shoulder lanes, which also exist during rush hours on I-264.  Not sure how many 10-lane freeways anywhere have 70 mph speed limits but that sounds nuts to me.

I-295 around Richmond is almost all 70 mph and almost 30 miles of 8-lane freeway.  The highest AADT on a 70 mph segment looks to be 90k for both directions combined.  The 65 mph section around I-95/US 1 interchanges is 108k.

I-264 has an AADT for both directions of 146k between Independence Blvd and Rosemont.  Drops under 100k only east of the exit to Laskin Rd.

I-95's 70 mph speed limit ends at Exit 126 near Fredericksburg.  The NB AADT for 3 lanes is 52k.  At this traffic level VDOT has placed a pilot program for 16 miles in this area to have variable speed limits, suggesting they think it is crowded enough, often enough, to warrant lowering the speed limit sometimes.

For general additional context, the 65 mph speed limit on 95 NB drops to 60 mph (Dale City, still 3 lanes) where the AADT NB is 77k.  It drops to 55 mph (Woodbridge, gains a 4th lane shortly after) and the AADT NB is 95k (maxing out at 127k approaching the Beltway).

[Thing 342]

That law does not mention shoulder lanes, which also exist during rush hours on I-264.  Not sure how many 10-lane freeways anywhere have 70 mph speed limits but that sounds nuts to me.

I-85 through between I-285 and GA-317 carries 10+ lanes with a 70 mph speed limit.

[Mapmikey]

I-85 through between I-285 and GA-317 carries 10+ lanes with a 70 mph speed limit.

including an express toll lane that requires getting over 4+ lanes to make an exit...just nuts

[wriddle082]

That law does not mention shoulder lanes, which also exist during rush hours on I-264.  Not sure how many 10-lane freeways anywhere have 70 mph speed limits but that sounds nuts to me.

I-85 through between I-285 and GA-317 carries 10+ lanes with a 70 mph speed limit.

Also I-65 on the north side of Nashville from TN 45 to TN 386 (though it's temporarily reduced as you're approaching the work zone for the widening that begins past TN 386).  10 lanes, inside lanes are part time HOV, with no lane changing restrictions. 

I-40 east of Briley Pkwy near the BNA Airport is 70, and has some aux lanes for the airport and TN 255 exits that, I think, push the lane total to at least 10.

[Beltway]

VDOT can post whatever they please on I-264, the typically running speeds are very much north of 65 mph in Virginia Beach. East of Independence Blvd, all the interchanges are spaced over a mile apart. The roadway geometry was designed with a 70 mph design speed.

Really? You have claimed that the lanes are only 11 feet wide.

That is why I am requesting FHWA intervention, because VDOT's artifically low 55 mph speed limit is not MUTCD compliant. I am not sure if the Virginia MUTCD has different rules from the national MUTCD, but state MUTCDs are required to be substantially compliant with the national MUTCD. If the reason is to increase revenue by issuing more speeding tickets, this is likely not compliant with MUTCD rules.

MUTCD does not set or control speed limits. It governs the design and application of signs, not the numeric value chosen by a state.

FHWA can require Virginia to fix a signing violation (size, placement, retroreflectivity, wrong code), but FHWA cannot order Virginia to change the number on a speed‑limit sign. Speed‑setting authority belongs to the state under §46.2‑878 and related statutes. MUTCD governs sign standards, not speed‑limit values.

A 55 mph posting may be questionable from an engineering standpoint, but it is not a MUTCD compliance issue. I would place I-264 on the edge, as I-64 in Chesapeake is mostly 60 mph.

I-295 around Richmond is almost all 70 mph and almost 30 miles of 8-lane freeway.  The highest AADT on a 70 mph segment looks to be 90k for both directions combined.  The 65 mph section around I-95/US 1 interchanges is 108k.

Deserving of it -- as it was built to late-era Interstate standards. It has 10-foot paved shoulders right and left, 30 foot clear roadsides, wide median, amply-spaced interchanges with ample auxiliary lanes.

[1995hoo]

It's not an MUTCD issue. A Virginia statute sets the speed limit. Anything above 55 requires a traffic and engineering study. VDOT typically refuses to perform those on urban and suburban mainline highways. The FHWA has no authority over the issue and has not since late 1995.

Why can't the FHWA or local governments order a study then? VDOT is just dragging their feet since they know that a study would warrant an increase in the speed limit.

The FHWA has no authority over what states post. As to local government, you have to understand how state government works in Virginia. We're a Dillon Rule state, for better or for worse. That means local governments have no authority except that which is specifically granted to them by the state government in Richmond. It should not surprise anyone that local governments don't have the authority to compel VDOT—an agency of the Commonwealth—to take action.

Local government law is a Very Big Deal here and invariably appears on the bar exam.

So, there's this:  You cannot post a 70 mph speed limit in Virginia by law on an unseparated HOV lane(s).  See the 3rd paragraph here: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title46.2/chapter8/article8/

...

The way I read that is that they could post 70 mph in an unseparated HOV lane if that lane on an Interstate and all lanes are posted at 70 (this because of the first provision there allowing 70-mph speed limits on Interstates if the specified conditions are met). There's a standard provision of statutory construction that you have to read a statute to give effect to all provisions if possible and what I just said seems to be the way you would give effect to both the provision allowing 70-mph limits on Interstates and the other provision allowing them on barrier-separated HOV lanes. We have several examples around Virginia of different speed limits when the HOV facility is barrier-separated, of course.

[Mapmikey]

I read it as you could post the main lanes at 70 but not the unseparated HOV lane, so as a practical matter you would never do that.

But I was a health physicist interpreting NRC regulations...and not a lawyer. So I defer to you on that.

[Pink Jazz]

It's not an MUTCD issue. A Virginia statute sets the speed limit. Anything above 55 requires a traffic and engineering study. VDOT typically refuses to perform those on urban and suburban mainline highways. The FHWA has no authority over the issue and has not since late 1995.

Why can't the FHWA or local governments order a study then? VDOT is just dragging their feet since they know that a study would warrant an increase in the speed limit.

The FHWA has no authority over what states post. As to local government, you have to understand how state government works in Virginia. We're a Dillon Rule state, for better or for worse. That means local governments have no authority except that which is specifically granted to them by the state government in Richmond. It should not surprise anyone that local governments don't have the authority to compel VDOT—an agency of the Commonwealth—to take action.

Local government law is a Very Big Deal here and invariably appears on the bar exam.

So, there's this:  You cannot post a 70 mph speed limit in Virginia by law on an unseparated HOV lane(s).  See the 3rd paragraph here: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title46.2/chapter8/article8/

...

The way I read that is that they could post 70 mph in an unseparated HOV lane if that lane on an Interstate and all lanes are posted at 70 (this because of the first provision there allowing 70-mph speed limits on Interstates if the specified conditions are met). There's a standard provision of statutory construction that you have to read a statute to give effect to all provisions if possible and what I just said seems to be the way you would give effect to both the provision allowing 70-mph limits on Interstates and the other provision allowing them on barrier-separated HOV lanes. We have several examples around Virginia of different speed limits when the HOV facility is barrier-separated, of course.

I hope somebody files a lawsuit against VDOT someday over this for posting an artificially low speed limit to unlawfully boost revenue from speeding tickets.

[WillWeaverRVA]

I hope somebody files a lawsuit against VDOT someday over this for posting an artificially low speed limit to unlawfully boost revenue from speeding tickets.

What? VDOT would not get any benefit from speeding ticket revenue. That all goes to localities, and revenue collected by state troopers doesn't go to VDOT either.

[Beltway]

I hope somebody files a lawsuit against VDOT someday over this for posting an artificially low speed limit to unlawfully boost revenue from speeding tickets.

Based on I‑64 in Chesapeake, we're only talking about 5 mph less.

A lawsuit wouldn't go anywhere. Virginia Code §46.2‑878 gives VDOT full statutory authority to set speed limits based on engineering judgment. Courts do not second‑guess posted limits, and "artificially low for revenue" is not a legally recognized claim. Unless the sign itself violates MUTCD format or placement rules -- which this one doesn't -- there's no cause of action.

Every police agency in Virginia uses the Virginia Uniform Summons, all traffic cases go through the state General District Court system, and all sworn officers are state‑certified under DCJS. VDOT has no enforcement authority, no role in ticket processing, and receives none of the revenue. Under §46.2‑878, VDOT's speed‑limit decisions are engineering and policy calls, not revenue mechanisms. The idea that VDOT posts low limits to help PDs write more tickets has no legal, financial, or operational basis.

Because the Uniform Summons, the courts, the officers, and the revenue stream are all state‑controlled and completely separate from VDOT, there is no mechanism -- and no incentive -- for VDOT to post low limits to boost ticket revenue. The claim collapses on law, economics, and operational structure.

And the revenue doesn't go to VDOT or the police anyway -- traffic‑fine revenue in Virginia is deposited into the state Literary Fund under §46.2‑208.1. Neither VDOT nor any police department financially benefits from speed‑limit enforcement.

[Beltway]

The way I read that is that they could post 70 mph in an unseparated HOV lane if that lane on an Interstate and all lanes are posted at 70 (this because of the first provision there allowing 70-mph speed limits on Interstates if the specified conditions are met). There's a standard provision of statutory construction that you have to read a statute to give effect to all provisions if possible and what I just said seems to be the way you would give effect to both the provision allowing 70-mph limits on Interstates and the other provision allowing them on barrier-separated HOV lanes. We have several examples around Virginia of different speed limits when the HOV facility is barrier-separated, of course.

They are separated by a 4-foot wide buffer, but they are still concurrent flow HOV lanes, which I think is what you mean.

The I-495 HOT Lanes are 65 mph and the general purpose lanes are 55 mph.

The I-64 HOT Lanes (open only south of I-264 so far) are 65 mph and the general purpose lanes are mostly 60 mph.

Someone else will need to report on the I-66 HOT Lanes, as it has been a long time since I used them.

[1995hoo]

The way I read that is that they could post 70 mph in an unseparated HOV lane if that lane on an Interstate and all lanes are posted at 70 (this because of the first provision there allowing 70-mph speed limits on Interstates if the specified conditions are met). There's a standard provision of statutory construction that you have to read a statute to give effect to all provisions if possible and what I just said seems to be the way you would give effect to both the provision allowing 70-mph limits on Interstates and the other provision allowing them on barrier-separated HOV lanes. We have several examples around Virginia of different speed limits when the HOV facility is barrier-separated, of course.

They are separated by a 4-foot wide buffer, but they are still concurrent flow HOV lanes, which I think is what you mean.

The I-495 HOT Lanes are 65 mph and the general purpose lanes are 55 mph.

The I-64 HOT Lanes (open only south of I-264 so far) are 65 mph and the general purpose lanes are mostly 60 mph.

Someone else will need to report on the I-66 HOT Lanes, as it has been a long time since I used them.

Outside the Beltway they're posted at 70 mph the entire way. The general-purpose lanes are at 55 from the Beltway to Route 29 in Centreville, then 60 mph to just west of the Route 234 Business interchange, then 65 mph from there to just west of Haymarket (which is beyond the HO/T lanes' terminus), and then 70 mph once the road narrows to two lanes.

BTW, the reason I used the phrase "unseparated HOV lane" was that I was using the same term as the post I quoted. The statute says "physically separated," so maybe a mere gap in pavement or use of paint wouldn't be deemed sufficient. I'll take your word on the configuration on I-264. I haven't been to that area of Virginia since 2006, and on that trip I didn't use I-264 because I was headed to North Carolina for a friend's wedding and didn't have time for detours.

I hope somebody files a lawsuit against VDOT someday over this for posting an artificially low speed limit to unlawfully boost revenue from speeding tickets.

That would be thrown out of court for a host of reasons, not the least of which is sovereign immunity, and the attorney would likely face sanctions for filing a frivolous lawsuit.

[Beltway]

BTW, the reason I used the phrase "unseparated HOV lane" was that I was using the same term as the post I quoted. The statute says "physically separated," so maybe a mere gap in pavement or use of paint wouldn't be deemed sufficient.

What you see on I-95 and I-395 -- separate roadway with medians between the GP and express roadways.

[1995hoo]

BTW, the reason I used the phrase "unseparated HOV lane" was that I was using the same term as the post I quoted. The statute says "physically separated," so maybe a mere gap in pavement or use of paint wouldn't be deemed sufficient.

What you see on I-95 and I-395 -- separate roadway with medians between the GP and express roadways.

The bollards (or pylons or flexposts, whatever) on the Beltway and I-66 are obviously deemed sufficient as well.

[Beltway]

BTW, the reason I used the phrase "unseparated HOV lane" was that I was using the same term as the post I quoted. The statute says "physically separated," so maybe a mere gap in pavement or use of paint wouldn't be deemed sufficient.

What you see on I-95 and I-395 -- separate roadway with medians between the GP and express roadways.

The bollards (or pylons or flexposts, whatever) on the Beltway and I-66 are obviously deemed sufficient as well.

Also called delineators. They are weak enough to bend away, more of a visual barrier than a positive barrier, telling drivers that they should not cross between. I would still call them current flow HOT/GP.

[1995hoo]

BTW, the reason I used the phrase "unseparated HOV lane" was that I was using the same term as the post I quoted. The statute says "physically separated," so maybe a mere gap in pavement or use of paint wouldn't be deemed sufficient.

What you see on I-95 and I-395 -- separate roadway with medians between the GP and express roadways.

The bollards (or pylons or flexposts, whatever) on the Beltway and I-66 are obviously deemed sufficient as well.

Also called delineators. They are weak enough to bend away, more of a visual barrier than a positive barrier, telling drivers that they should not cross between. I would still call them current flow HOT/GP.

All I meant was that VDOT pretty clearly considers them to be a sufficient "physical" separation to allow for a 70-mph speed limit in the express lanes located directly next to general-purpose lanes that are posted at 55 (because that's the setup for 12 miles of I-66).

[Beltway]

All I meant was that VDOT pretty clearly considers them to be a sufficient "physical" separation to allow for a 70-mph speed limit in the express lanes located directly next to general-purpose lanes that are posted at 55 (because that's the setup for 12 miles of I-66).

Same separator as on I-495. 65 mph HOT, 55 mph GP. Difference may be that I-66 is fairly straight, while I-495 has a lot of horizontal curvature.

[1995hoo]

All I meant was that VDOT pretty clearly considers them to be a sufficient "physical" separation to allow for a 70-mph speed limit in the express lanes located directly next to general-purpose lanes that are posted at 55 (because that's the setup for 12 miles of I-66).

Same separator as on I-495. 65 mph HOT, 55 mph GP. Difference may be that I-66 is fairly straight, while I-495 has a lot of horizontal curvature.

When they posted 65 on the Beltway, they said they never considered posting 70 mph there.

Edited to add: Here is a WTOP report from 2013 from back when they raised the Beltway express lanes to 65 mph. They said the study showed 70 would have been justifiable but that they recommended against it.

[ElishaGOtis]

Soooo... has anyone asked VDOT to look into raising the speed limit?

Also,

It's not an MUTCD issue. A Virginia statute sets the speed limit. Anything above 55 requires a traffic and engineering study. VDOT typically refuses to perform those on urban and suburban mainline highways. The FHWA has no authority over the issue and has not since late 1995.

Why can't the FHWA or local governments order a study then? VDOT is just dragging their feet since they know that a study would warrant an increase in the speed limit.

The FHWA has no authority over what states post. As to local government, you have to understand how state government works in Virginia. We're a Dillon Rule state, for better or for worse. That means local governments have no authority except that which is specifically granted to them by the state government in Richmond. It should not surprise anyone that local governments don't have the authority to compel VDOT—an agency of the Commonwealth—to take action.

Local government law is a Very Big Deal here and invariably appears on the bar exam.

So, there's this:  You cannot post a 70 mph speed limit in Virginia by law on an unseparated HOV lane(s).  See the 3rd paragraph here: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title46.2/chapter8/article8/

...

The way I read that is that they could post 70 mph in an unseparated HOV lane if that lane on an Interstate and all lanes are posted at 70 (this because of the first provision there allowing 70-mph speed limits on Interstates if the specified conditions are met). There's a standard provision of statutory construction that you have to read a statute to give effect to all provisions if possible and what I just said seems to be the way you would give effect to both the provision allowing 70-mph limits on Interstates and the other provision allowing them on barrier-separated HOV lanes. We have several examples around Virginia of different speed limits when the HOV facility is barrier-separated, of course.

Quote:

Notwithstanding the foregoing provisions of this section, the maximum speed limit shall be 70 miles per hour where indicated by lawfully placed signs, erected subsequent to a traffic engineering study and analysis of available and appropriate accident and law-enforcement data, on (i) interstate highways; (ii) multilane, divided, limited access highways; and (iii) high-occupancy vehicle lanes if such lanes are physically separated from regular travel lanes.

Also, a completely different section states this:

§ 46.2-878. Authority to change speed limits.
A. Notwithstanding the other provisions of this article, and except as otherwise provided in subdivision A 4 of § 46.2-1300, the Commissioner of Highways or other authority having jurisdiction over highways may decrease the speed limits set forth in § 46.2-870 and may increase or decrease the speed limits set forth in §§ 46.2-873 through 46.2-875 on any highway under its jurisdiction and may establish differentiated speed limits for daytime and nighttime by decreasing for nighttime driving the speed limits set forth in § 46.2-870 and by increasing for daytime or decreasing for nighttime the speed limits set forth in §§ 46.2-873 through 46.2-875 on any highway under his jurisdiction. Such increased or decreased speed limits and such differentiated speed limits for daytime and nighttime driving shall be effective only when prescribed after a traffic engineering investigation and when indicated on the highway by signs. It is unlawful to operate any motor vehicle in excess of speed limits established and posted as provided in this section. The increased or decreased speed limits over highways under the control of the Commissioner of Highways shall be effective only when prescribed in writing by the Commissioner of Highways and kept on file in the Central Office of the Department of Transportation. Whenever the speed limit on any highway has been increased or decreased or a differential speed limit has been established and such speed limit is properly posted, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that the change in speed was properly established in accordance with the provisions of this section.

Tl;dr Default limit is 55, but VDOT can put up to 70 on freeways and up to 60 on a laundry list of divided highways (not included). Elsewhere, they can only put 55 or lower.

NAL.

Even then, I've noticed a tendency to prefer limiting speed limits based on the design speed more than anything else.

[Beltway]

Default limit is 55, but VDOT can put up to 70 on freeways and up to 60 on a laundry list of divided highways (not included). Elsewhere, they can only put 55 or lower.

Selected 4-lane highways -- and I don't think it has been updated in at least 10 years. At some point they should apply one rule to all such highways (nonlimited access, multilane, divided highways). It does include nearly all the major intra-state routes. Not included are: US-13, US-211, US-19, VA-7 and US-220.

Granted it is far more complex to perform the traffic study than a freeway, given all the side entrances and intersections. But over time they could study all the mileage.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-870/
The maximum speed limit shall be 60 miles per hour where indicated by lawfully placed signs, erected subsequent to a traffic engineering study and analysis of available and appropriate accident and law-enforcement data, on U.S. Route 17, U.S. Route 23, U.S. Route 29, U.S. Route 58, U.S. Alternate Route 58, U.S. Route 301, U.S. Route 360, U.S. Route 460, U.S. Route 501 between the Town of South Boston and the North Carolina state line, State Route 3, and State Route 207 where such routes are nonlimited access, multilane, divided highways.