School year calendars

[Scott5114]

I do see people wanting to eliminate an unwanted wildlife all the time... So what is the fundamental difference between a groundhog or chipmunk damaging your driveway and a neighbor flooding your basement?

Because one of them is a fellow human being, and the other two are animals.  I figured that fundamental difference was obvious.  If you don't see a moral difference between killing an animal and killing another person, then your moral compass is off.

I don't think either one is generally okay. It's just that you'll probably come across more situations in which killing an animal will be justified (food, self defense/safety) than you will a human.

Or to put it another way, I don't think it's morally okay to go out to a rural area and kill all the field mice just to kill mice. But if mice try to move into my house, they could cause a safety problem by damaging the house or spreading disease, so it's justifiable to try to kill them to prevent that.

Likewise, I don't think it's okay to kill random pigeons that happen to be in my area. But I am fine with someone killing a chicken on my behalf so I can eat it.

[kalvado]

I do see people wanting to eliminate an unwanted wildlife all the time... So what is the fundamental difference between a groundhog or chipmunk damaging your driveway and a neighbor flooding your basement?

Because one of them is a fellow human being, and the other two are animals.  I figured that fundamental difference was obvious.  If you don't see a moral difference between killing an animal and killing another person, then your moral compass is off.

Which is a part of indoctrination (as you pointed in a "eye for eye" story).
And while that is about history of treating humans as bad as animals, story doesn't end there.
There are people who are willing to extend same moral protection to animals, btw - so the difference isn't that obvious after all.

[kphoger]

There are people who are willing to extend same moral protection to animals, btw - so the difference isn't that obvious after all.

As they say, common sense isn't as common as it used to be.

[kphoger]

Because one of them is a fellow human being, and the other two are animals.  I figured that fundamental difference was obvious.  If you don't see a moral difference between killing an animal and killing another person, then your moral compass is off.

I don't think either one is generally okay. It's just that you'll probably come across more situations in which killing an animal will be justified (food, self defense/safety) than you will a human.

Or to put it another way, I don't think it's morally okay to go out to a rural area and kill all the field mice just to kill mice. But if mice try to move into my house, they could cause a safety problem by damaging the house or spreading disease, so it's justifiable to try to kill them to prevent that.

Likewise, I don't think it's okay to kill random pigeons that happen to be in my area. But I am fine with someone killing a chicken on my behalf so I can eat it.

Tell me you still see a moral distinction between (a) going next door and killing my neighbor's dog because it's annoying and (b) going next door and killing my neighbor because she's annoying.  Do you think I should have to serve the same jail time in either case?

[Scott5114]

Tell me you still see a moral distinction between (a) going next door and killing my neighbor's dog because it's annoying and (b) going next door and killing my neighbor because she's annoying.

No. The species of the thing you killed is an arbitrary distinction.

[kphoger]

Tell me you still see a moral distinction between (a) going next door and killing my neighbor's dog because it's annoying and (b) going next door and killing my neighbor because she's annoying.

No. The species of the thing you killed is an arbitrary distinction.

So what non-arbitrary distinction is there between killing my neighbor's dog and killing a housefly on the window, or a cricket on the driveway, or a grasshopper on a brick wall?  Is there one?

(And, if your answer is "central nervous system", then how is that distinction not arbitrary?)

[Scott5114]

So what non-arbitrary distinction is there between killing my neighbor's dog and killing a housefly on the window, or a cricket on the driveway, or a grasshopper on a brick wall?  Is there one?

Killing the fly on the window is an act of self-defense, as flies can spread disease, and it is safer for you to not have that in the house.

There is no reason to kill a cricket in the driveway or a grasshopper on a brick wall, so killing those is wrong.

[formulanone]

There are people who are willing to extend same moral protection to animals, btw - so the difference isn't that obvious after all.

As they say, common sense isn't as common as it used to be.

I conclude it was never "common" at any point in time because it was always an artificial construct in the first place.

It's a nicer way to say "what an idiot" from the bleachers, I suppose.

[kphoger]

There is no reason to kill a cricket in the driveway or a grasshopper on a brick wall, so killing those is wrong.

So...  in your perfect world, that would carry the same criminal punishment as homicide?

[kphoger]

Killing the fly on the window is an act of self-defense, as flies can spread disease

Humans spread disease.

[Scott5114]

There is no reason to kill a cricket in the driveway or a grasshopper on a brick wall, so killing those is wrong.

So...  in your perfect world, that would carry the same criminal punishment as homicide?

No, simply because prosecutorial resources are finite, and you cannot call a cricket's family to testify in court against its killer.

Killing the fly on the window is an act of self-defense, as flies can spread disease

Humans spread disease.

Now do you understand the covid thread better?

[kphoger]

Humans spread disease.

Now do you understand the covid thread better?

Not really, because I don't believe we should be allowed to kill people just because they're contagious.

[Rothman]

There are people who are willing to extend same moral protection to animals, btw - so the difference isn't that obvious after all.

As they say, common sense isn't as common as it used to be.

I conclude it was never "common" at any point in time because it was always an artificial construct in the first place.

It's a nicer way to say "what an idiot" from the bleachers, I suppose.

I hope to be on the bleachers this Saturday.

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

I don't know if I mentioned this previously or not, or if I should put this here or in Minor things that bother you, but, public schools taking Election Day off, to encourage kids to go out to vote, even though it will only affect a small amount of High School Seniors.

[1995hoo]

I don't know if I mentioned this previously or not, or if I should put this here or in Minor things that bother you, but, public schools taking Election Day off, to encourage kids to go out to vote, even though it will only affect a small amount of High School Seniors.

The public schools here are always closed on Election Day—or, more properly, Election Day is always a teacher workday on which students don't attend—but not because of any desire to "encourage kids to go out to vote." That would be stupid. The actual reason here, and I suspect in most other places where schools close on that day, is because the schools are used as polling places. I remember when I was a kid in presidential election years the cafeteria would be used as a polling place, presumably because it had more room, and in years when the elections were primarily for local offices they'd use a smaller space (I remember in 1999 the polling place was in my old second-grade classroom, a room I had not entered since 1981 because that school closed in 1982 and was converted to a police station). There was one year when I was a kid when we had school on Election Day. I'm guessing it was 1980 because I was at the school that closed in 1982 and the polling place was in the cafeteria. It was a logistical disaster because the polling place took up too much room and disrupted the lunch schedule, as well as because they told us all we had to remain silent so as not to disturb the people who were there to vote. Try telling elementary school kids to sit silently for half an hour while eating lunch, which is normally one of the few times during the school day when they're free to talk as desired. I think the cafeteria lady probably disturbed the voters more when she was yelling at everyone not to talk (we weren't even allowed to talk quietly or whisper).

Evidently the school administrators agreed because that was the last time we ever had to go to school on Election Day and that day is still a teacher workday.

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

I don't know if I mentioned this previously or not, or if I should put this here or in Minor things that bother you, but, public schools taking Election Day off, to encourage kids to go out to vote, even though it will only affect a small amount of High School Seniors.

The public schools here are always closed on Election Day—or, more properly, Election Day is always a teacher workday on which students don't attend—but not because of any desire to "encourage kids to go out to vote." That would be stupid. The actual reason here, and I suspect in most other places where schools close on that day, is because the schools are used as polling places. I remember when I was a kid in presidential election years the cafeteria would be used as a polling place, presumably because it had more room, and in years when the elections were primarily for local offices they'd use a smaller space (I remember in 1999 the polling place was in my old second-grade classroom, a room I had not entered since 1981 because that school closed in 1982 and was converted to a police station). There was one year when I was a kid when we had school on Election Day. I'm guessing it was 1980 because I was at the school that closed in 1982 and the polling place was in the cafeteria. It was a logistical disaster because the polling place took up too much room and disrupted the lunch schedule, as well as because they told us all we had to remain silent so as not to disturb the people who were there to vote. Try telling elementary school kids to sit silently for half an hour while eating lunch, which is normally one of the few times during the school day when they're free to talk as desired. I think the cafeteria lady probably disturbed the voters more when she was yelling at everyone not to talk (we weren't even allowed to talk quietly or whisper).

Evidently the school administrators agreed because that was the last time we ever had to go to school on Election Day and that day is still a teacher workday.

Our local Elementary School system had used two of its locations as polling places, one was the district offices, the other was a Pre-K-Kindergarten only Elementary School where they used the teacher's lounge, to vote. Neither are polling places now as the Library across the street from the offices is also a polling place, and they merged them, and the school got sold to the nearby college. My local polling place is a Private Christian Elementary School, they use a Multi-Purpose Room, and one time I was voting I could hear the kids in the Gymnasium next room over, through an apparent thin wall. 2020 when I was in High School was the first time I had Election Day off. The High School also had Election Days 2022 & 2024 off. Apparently they are in session in 2026. Even though it is not and never was a polling place.

[SP Cook]

Whoever got his thread back on track,thank you.  This isn't a place for reference free moralism.

I've aged out of worrying about school calendars,but in my state all election days are a day off and every school is a polling place.  They only use other types of places if they have no alternative.  95% of polling places are the schools.  It just how it is.  I voted in college in an arena and in grad school at the state police detachment in what I think was an interview room, which made me uncomfortable.  Otherwise it's always been at schoolhouses.

[elsmere241]

Thinking back a bit . . .

The Metropolitan Nashville Public Schools started on August 24th, 1978, and on August 28th in 1979.

From there, it was normally the next to last Friday in August.  In 1980 it was Friday, August 22nd, but I didn't start until September 3rd because we were on a roadtrip around the West.  This was unavoidable because my father had an annual chemists' conference from August 26th to 28th in Las Vegas.  School ended all three years the last week of May.

In 1981, it would have started Friday, August 21st.  This time my father had meetings in Washington that day, and the annual convention was in New York the following week.  However, the new school assignment plan that had been put together the previous spring was stayed by the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals on Wednesday the 19th.  Supreme Court Justices Stevens and Rehnquist upheld the stay later that week.  Classrooms, etc. were already set up.

The start of school was pushed to Monday, September 14th.  There was major reshuffling to have everything ready in time under the previous plan.  (My school would have been closed as part of that plan.)  The last day was June 8th, and at least spring break had been cut back.

While we moved to Newark, DE in 1982, we still had friends and family in the area.  So I remember at least the next couple of years the first day being the next to last Friday in August.  (In 1983, schools started that day but were then closed for several days due to the heat.  Some schools and none of the buses had air conditioning.)  This year, they started on August 11th, so I'm sure there have been changes over the years.

In Delaware we were in the Christina School District.  School generally started the Wednesday or Thursday after Labor Day.  For me, it was a shock to the system that the first day was a full day (in Nashville it had been a half day), with homework assigned that day, at least for me in 5th Grade.

School generally ended the first or second week of June, and the last day was about an hour and a half.  Basically, the school buses picked everyone up at the normal time.  Then they went back through and took everyone home.  I was usually off the last day in high school because it was just a make-up day for the final exams.

[kphoger]

It seems weird to me that the public would be welcomed into a school building to vote while there are students in another part of the same building.

[elsmere241]

It seems weird to me that the public would be welcomed into a school building to vote while there are students in another part of the same building.

I didn't get to that part.  In Nashville, they used the schools, while the schools were open.  I remember in kindergarten they used the cafeteria.  We went through the line, and then went right out to the exit door and on to our classrooms.  At the time, kindergarten in Nashville let out an hour early, and did not get bus service.  So on those days, we couldn't congregate at the street doors to the cafeteria like we usually did since voters were using those doors to enter and exit.

I remember in third grade (the year of the reshuffling) our school was barely using an entire wing, so they set the machines up in a classroom on that wing, near the front door.  High school did something similar for referendums, but schools in Delaware close for general elections.

In fifth grade, we actually used real mechanical voting machines to choose student council officers.  At that school at that time, the vice-president from the year before automatically became president the following year.  That "race" was in the machines anyway, to demonstrate that in some countries, that was the only option.

When I was in Italy, voting was at the schools, and election day was Sunday. In 1994, the election (snap as usual) was scheduled for Palm Sunday, which was during Passover that year.  Monday was added as a second day that time, partly so Jews wouldn't have a conflict.  Since the election was so close to Easter, the schools wound up being closed for at least three weeks.

[kalvado]

It seems weird to me that the public would be welcomed into a school building to vote while there are students in another part of the same building.

I believe local schools were pointing out security of a modern society, including things like sex offenders voting rights, as a reason to close for the day.
Which may be a schedule problem for schools. Local university got tired of all random closings on random holidays - and now fall calendar has 2 small breaks - Columbus day (or whatever it's called now) + Tuesday afterward (+ weekend), and Wednesday-Sunday of Thanksgiving week.  That takes out exactly 1 full week.

[NWI_Irish96]

Well, our school year calendar is going to need a sudden adjustment. Still no power at some of the schools due to the tornado/wind damage from Tuesday. Today is the 4th missed day to the start of the school year.

[Scott5114]

Well, our school year calendar is going to need a sudden adjustment. Still no power at some of the schools due to the tornado/wind damage from Tuesday. Today is the 4th missed day to the start of the school year.

If your mayor hasn't called Oklahoma Gas & Electric yet, they should. OG&E is usually willing to send a few trucks out to places out of state that don't normally get tornadoes to put their expertise in repairing Oklahoma's electric grid after tornadoes to use.

[bandit957]

They really need to go back to what it was in the 1970s and 1980s.

Year-round school needs to be relegated to museums as a failed experiment.

[kalvado]

Well, our school year calendar is going to need a sudden adjustment. Still no power at some of the schools due to the tornado/wind damage from Tuesday. Today is the 4th missed day to the start of the school year.

If your mayor hasn't called Oklahoma Gas & Electric yet, they should. OG&E is usually willing to send a few trucks out to places out of state that don't normally get tornadoes to put their expertise in repairing Oklahoma's electric grid after tornadoes to use.

12 hour drive may be a bit too far...
I assume work is nothing unusual for linesmen, but things like availability of poles and cables; swollen soil; need to clean the path to repair site may be an issue.
We had an ice storm where linesmen were summoned from all over NE US. Lots of collapsed trees and broken wires.. It took about a week to finish up everything in the area, with 12-15 hour shifts and trucks all over the place.. City was mostly fixed within 2 days, though.
I wish I knew how schools did handle that.