Is Hudson County getting signed county routes?

[dgolub]

During the NYC National Road Meet last month, I snapped a photo of a sign for Hudson CR 691 on Tonnelle Avenue (US 1/US 9) south in New Jersey.  Does anyone know if this is the beginning of signed county routes for Hudson County, or is it just a fluke?

[J Route Z]

Do you mean besides 500 series routes? Because I think I have seen very few of these.

[NJRoadfan]

If its a traffic light overhead, its NJDOT signing it. Hudson County doesn't sign a damn thing. The only markers you'll see are for CR-501 at NJ-495, once again thats NJDOT signing it.

[dgolub]

If its a traffic light overhead, its NJDOT signing it. Hudson County doesn't sign a damn thing. The only markers you'll see are for CR-501 at NJ-495, once again thats NJDOT signing it.

It is on a traffic light, but even that's unusual.  The only county route I've seen signed anywhere in Hudson County in CR 501, and that signage seems to be pretty poor.

[Roadrunner75]

If its a traffic light overhead, its NJDOT signing it. Hudson County doesn't sign a damn thing. The only markers you'll see are for CR-501 at NJ-495, once again thats NJDOT signing it.

It is on a traffic light, but even that's unusual.  The only county route I've seen signed anywhere in Hudson County in CR 501, and that signage seems to be pretty poor.

NJDOT has been making an effort to get County route numbers on the overhead signs at lights.  In Ocean County at least, they've gotten some of them wrong on new signs by posting internal 'road' numbers (which can change by municipality and are 1 or 2 digits) where an actual shielded 'route' number (i.e. 600/700 series) has not been assigned or posted.  Meanwhile, the Turnpike Authority has actually removed 600 series numbers for new signs at exits (GSP interchanges 74 and 77, for example).

[roadman65]

Does NJDOT sign county routes in Hudson?  Look at NJ 139 WB at JFK Boulevard exit (yes the NJ 139 upper level is the exit ramp for it) and NJ 495 both ways at the JFK exit.  Both, as far as I know, have always been either Kennedy Boulevard or JFK Blvd. 

Then is not Boulevard East in Weehawken part of CR 505?  The WB NJ 495 exit for it is unsigned as well if it is.

[J Route Z]

JCT what?:  http://goo.gl/maps/EfFSk

This was supposed to be a county route shield. Not sure why it's missing.

[NJRoadfan]

Its for CR-501, next exit is JFK Blvd.

[dgolub]

Then is not Boulevard East in Weehawken part of CR 505?  The WB NJ 495 exit for it is unsigned as well if it is.

Yes, but it doesn't pick up the CR 505 designation until about 1000 feet north of NJ 495, so strictly speaking it's not a 500 series route at the interchange.

[Alps]

Does NJDOT sign county routes in Hudson?  Look at NJ 139 WB at JFK Boulevard exit (yes the NJ 139 upper level is the exit ramp for it) and NJ 495 both ways at the JFK exit.  Both, as far as I know, have always been either Kennedy Boulevard or JFK Blvd. 

Then is not Boulevard East in Weehawken part of CR 505?  The WB NJ 495 exit for it is unsigned as well if it is.

Interesting fact that I learned through a TomTom worker some of us know: Most of the "county routes" that NJ has in the Straight Line Diagram are not recognized by Hudson. So that could easily be the reason why you see shield-less blades on signals with routes you think are county.

[dgolub]

Does NJDOT sign county routes in Hudson?  Look at NJ 139 WB at JFK Boulevard exit (yes the NJ 139 upper level is the exit ramp for it) and NJ 495 both ways at the JFK exit.  Both, as far as I know, have always been either Kennedy Boulevard or JFK Blvd. 

Then is not Boulevard East in Weehawken part of CR 505?  The WB NJ 495 exit for it is unsigned as well if it is.

Interesting fact that I learned through a TomTom worker some of us know: Most of the "county routes" that NJ has in the Straight Line Diagram are not recognized by Hudson. So that could easily be the reason why you see shield-less blades on signals with routes you think are county.

So where did they get them from?  The county route network that they show for Hudson County is a mess?  Also, does it go the other way, too?  Are there roads that are county routes but aren't shown as such by the state?

[Mr. Matté]

A while ago, I saw on the Hudson County's website a map of all the roads in the county (doesn't seem to be there anymore) and despite the million of county routes, the only ones actually maintained by the county were most of the 500-system and a couple of 600s here and there (like the main routes through Kearny, Harrison, and Secaucus). Even the SLDs, though not updated since 2000, show most of these routes as municipal.

[Alps]

A while ago, I saw on the Hudson County's website a map of all the roads in the county (doesn't seem to be there anymore) and despite the million of county routes, the only ones actually maintained by the county were most of the 500-system and a couple of 600s here and there (like the main routes through Kearny, Harrison, and Secaucus). Even the SLDs, though not updated since 2000, show most of these routes as municipal.

And those roads not maintained by the county were dropped from the numbered system.

[NJRoadfan]

Its still up, but has a few numbering errors: http://www.hudsoncountynj.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/countyroadmap.pdf

Basically Hudson heavily trimmed back their county route system. It looks like they turned over every road they maintained in Jersey City back to the city except for JFK Blvd. They don't sign any of their routes that I know of, so this might be the only 6XX shield you'll ever see in that county: http://goo.gl/maps/Xjlre

I have an update for the wikipedia list that I have to finish up.

As for the other counties, its known that the SLDs for Union and Middlesex are totally wrong. They were wrong/outdated when NJDOT inventoried them for the SLDs back in 1999-2000!

[dgolub]

Its still up, but has a few numbering errors: http://www.hudsoncountynj.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/countyroadmap.pdf

What?  Hudson County actually has a sane county route network?  Who knew?

That said, the map dates back to 2006, and some of the shorter routes don't have their numbers marked.  I'm thinking I'll do a FOIL request (or the New Jersey equivalent thereof) with the county and get an official listing of the county route network to post on GNYR.

[dgolub]

Basically Hudson heavily trimmed back their county route system. It looks like they turned over every road they maintained in Jersey City back to the city except for JFK Blvd. They don't sign any of their routes that I know of, so this might be the only 6XX shield you'll ever see in that county: http://goo.gl/maps/Xjlre

No, that's not the one I was talking about.  There's one on a traffic light mast arm on Tonnelle Avenue (US 1/US 9) southbound for Bergen Turnpike (CR 691) just north of the entrance to NJ 3.  I have a photo on my site at http://www.greaternyroads.info/roads/njstate/us1.

[NJRoadfan]

I have the list. These are the routes that are still county maintained. Use the NJDOT SLDs to get the actual routing.

636,638,653,655,657,658,659,670,673,675,676,677-1,677-2 (route is split up by a park),678,679,681,683,687,690,691,693,697,699,719,732

766- Not in SLDs, This is 92nd Street in North Bergen from JFK Blvd to NJ-63, .005 miles total!

The mast arm sign on 1&9 was posted by NJDOT and doesn't count. 

As for Ocean's 1 and 2 digit routes, many of them are actually county maintained. For some reason, they only assigned a handful of routes 600 series numbers. They have internal numbers assigned to all 600 and 500 county routes too.

[Roadrunner75]

As for Ocean's 1 and 2 digit routes, many of them are actually county maintained. For some reason, they only assigned a handful of routes 600 series numbers. They have internal numbers assigned to all 600 and 500 county routes too.

Yes - But my understanding is that the 1 and 2 digit numbers for Ocean County routes are the internal 'road' numbers as opposed to route numbers which would actually be signed with shields (although they usually aren't signed in O.C. with the exception of 500 series).  These numbers would be for internal use only and can be duplicated as they are by municipality only.  I'm pretty sure this came up in an article in the paper at one point.  If I recall from the article, the NJDOT got a hold of the County's road number listing and started posting them on the overhead signs as shielded 'routes', when they were never intended to be 'routes' that would be signed.  I was looking at the Wikipedia page on OC routes, and I notice that the source is NJDOT SLD's.  A handful of 600 series are signed or starting to be signed.  New Hampshire Avenue is very slowly getting its 623 shields.  I wish I could find the article...Asbury Park Press I think.

As for Hudson, I remember looking into Hudson County approval for a Jersey City project once, and seeing on a map somewhere a number of 'County' routes (looking at Google Maps now you'd think JC is full of County routes with all the 600 series numbers everywhere).  An attorney told me that there were none in Jersey City, except for JFK I believe (501).  I'm pretty sure that Frank E. Rodgers Blvd. in Harrison (697) is a County route, though.

[Alps]

Its still up, but has a few numbering errors: http://www.hudsoncountynj.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/countyroadmap.pdf

Basically Hudson heavily trimmed back their county route system. It looks like they turned over every road they maintained in Jersey City back to the city except for JFK Blvd. They don't sign any of their routes that I know of, so this might be the only 6XX shield you'll ever see in that county: http://goo.gl/maps/Xjlre

I have an update for the wikipedia list that I have to finish up.

As for the other counties, its known that the SLDs for Union and Middlesex are totally wrong. They were wrong/outdated when NJDOT inventoried them for the SLDs back in 1999-2000!

Union has the CR 577 vs. CR 509 Spur debate. Middlesex has a totally different route for CR 514. I can understand counties differing from the state on 600s, but the 500s are supposed to be a state-numbered network, so why isn't the state in sync on these??

[dgolub]

As for Ocean's 1 and 2 digit routes, many of them are actually county maintained. For some reason, they only assigned a handful of routes 600 series numbers. They have internal numbers assigned to all 600 and 500 county routes too.

What about Ocean CR 632?  The SLD shows it turning off onto Old Burnt Tavern Road and then reappearing on Burnt Tavern Road on the other side of NJ 70.  I've presumed that this is likely a goof an that it really just follows Burnt Tavern Road straight across.

[NJRoadfan]

What about Ocean CR 632?  The SLD shows it turning off onto Old Burnt Tavern Road and then reappearing on Burnt Tavern Road on the other side of NJ 70.  I've presumed that this is likely a goof an that it really just follows Burnt Tavern Road straight across.

Its an error, the SLD shows the old routing from 1990ish before Burnt Tavern Rd. was built to connect directly to NJ-70. Whats odd is the extension is called Chestnut St. in the SLDs.

[dgolub]

All right, I've got the official listing, and it's consistent with the map.  I've posted it at http://www.greaternyroads.info/pdfs/hudsoncr.pdf for anyone who's interested.