NIMBYS!!!!!!!!!

[Mergingtraffic]

As a road geek, it can be a frustrating hobby as I want to see my local road network expanded.  I live in CT.  However, every project, newspaper article, there are NIMBYs that stand in the way.

CT is almost ground zero for NIMBYs.  Just read the comments at the end of this newspaper article about the expansion of the expressways in New Haven.  They don't want it.  Well, traffic is bad and you can't leave it as is!  Don't they get that?  Well, the DOT is moving ahead anyway...thank god!
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/04/25/news/new_haven/doc4bd3b44f1276d148536376.txt

NIMBYS don't realize the harm they cause.  In Hartford, CT there is talk of tearing down and rebuilding a section on I-84 because a bridge is nearing the end of it's lifespan.  Discussions are going on on how to rebuild it and handle all the traffic.  Some idiots are calling to teardown the highway and put traffic on local streets.  (uh, isn't that one of the reasons i-84 was built to begin with b/c too much traffic on local streets!?!?! partly?!?!?)

Amazingly, some people are calling for a beltway to be built north and west of Hartford.  The one that was canceled due to NIMBYs.  That is true!  If the beltway was built and the NIMBYs thought about the REGION rather than themselves, the problem wouldn't be as big.


Another, is US 7 expressway in southwestern CT, the NIMBYs have said no for decades and now they are 4-laning it, but that won't solve the problem. B/c the traffic came anyway,even without the expressway.

How has NIMBYism affected your area?

[Scott5114]

The only thing NIMBYs have killed in Oklahoma to my knowledge is a nuclear power plant east of Tulsa. Oklahoma City has a compete highway system. The I-40 realignment has proved that ODOT has a 1960s-ish mindset; always use the least-expensive ROW, no matter if that looks like you're targeting minorities or not, and seriously entertain no objections. OTA encountered some opposition to the Creek Turnpike, but it wasn't seriously widespread, but the public opinion was swayed in OTA's favor by vandalism of construction equipment and some of the silly things that main opposition group did (like boycott Mazzio's Pizza because they happened to be in the Chamber of Commerce, which supported the Turnpike).

[Ian]

Even though I hate that NIMBYs have killed many roads and projects that would have been really cool to see, I can understand how some wouldn't want a huge 15 lane freeway going through their backyards. But when it comes to little things like reconstruction of an aging elevated freeway, NIMBY's need to lay off a little.

[Bickendan]

I live in Portland. 'Nuff said.

[Hellfighter]

NIMBY's are what caused I-696 to get finished in 1989.

[TheStranger]

NIMBYs are why San Francisco only has one full freeway coming out of the city (though CalTrans hubris with the proposed I-80 extension and the Embarcadero Freeway didn't help).

Not sure if they're quite the reason for the cancellation of the I-80 realignment in North Sacramento - which would have used railroad right of way - that resulted in today's Busines s80 bottleneck through that area and Arden.

Amazingly, San Jose is probably the one place in Northern California where almost the entirety of the proposed system there was completed - the only route I can think of that was never completed as planned would be Route 87 between Route 237 and US 101, and one can even argue that I-680 gained miles over time (as it was originally planned to continue along Route 262 and today's I-880, instead of the "backdoor" route through Alum Rock).

[bugo]

The only thing NIMBYs have killed in Oklahoma to my knowledge is a nuclear power plant east of Tulsa. Oklahoma City has a compete highway system.

The Riverside Freeway was canceled because of NIMBYs.

The I-40 realignment has proved that ODOT has a 1960s-ish mindset; always use the least-expensive ROW, no matter if that looks like you're targeting minorities or not, and seriously entertain no objections. OTA encountered some opposition to the Creek Turnpike, but it wasn't seriously widespread, but the public opinion was swayed in OTA's favor by vandalism of construction equipment and some of the silly things that main opposition group did (like boycott Mazzio's Pizza because they happened to be in the Chamber of Commerce, which supported the Turnpike).

I-244 was built right through the Greenwood District, which was the main black business district. 

[Duke87]

The funny thing is, start proposing rail construction and the NIMBYs are oddly quiet.

See, that's really the problem here. Not unwanted backyard invasion, unwanted freeway construction. Note the comments in that article complaining that the money isn't going towards public transit.

I love this one in particular:

Only a tiny fraction of the cost of this project is funded by gas tax, meaning we're all subsidizing it through our income taxes and borrowing, whether or not we drive.

And yet, when you start diverting toll revenue to make drivers subsidize public transit, all of a sudden people like it. Double standard, much?

[mightyace]

There's not much of NIMBYism here in middle TN.  However, we elect our NIMBYs! 

See this kink in I-65:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Brentwood,+TN&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.323858,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Brentwood,+Williamson,+Tennessee&ll=36.010159,-86.784353&spn=0.030202,0.077162&t=h&z=14

It's allegedly there because a former governor or other high state official didn't want the more logical straight alignment taking part of his property.

It is a similar reason why the eastern side of the proposed TN 840 northern loop is east of Lebanon and does not line up with the south loop.  Some Lord high mucky-muck didn't want 840 going across his farm.  However, with the northern loop on hold, maybe he'll assume room temperature before serious talk of building the northern loop begins again.

[bugo]

There's not much of NIMBYism here in middle TN.  However, we elect our NIMBYs! 

See this kink in I-65:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Brentwood,+TN&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.323858,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Brentwood,+Williamson,+Tennessee&ll=36.010159,-86.784353&spn=0.030202,0.077162&t=h&z=14

It's allegedly there because a former governor or other high state official didn't want the more logical straight alignment taking part of his property.

It looks to me like the kink is there so the bridges over the railroad will line up better.

[national highway 1]

Even Sydney, Australia has NIMBYs
-The F3 Sydney-Newcastle Freeway currently ends at Pennant Hills Rd, Wahroonga (since Mar 1989) It was planned to connect to the M2 near the toll plaza at Macquarie Park, but was cancelled in in the 1990s.
-The M4 Western Motorway was supposed to continue along the Anzac Bridge, connecting to the Western Distributor. The ROW was supposed to run through the seat of Neville Wran, the premier of NSW from 1976-86, but in 1977 the ROW was sold off. Later from 1991-2000 the City-West Link was constructed in the ROW from Timbrell Dr Haberfield to Victoria Rd White Bay as a 4-lane expressway.
-The F6 Southern Fwy ends at Waterfall, south of Sydney, having done so since 1975. It was planned to end in the inner-city suburb of Alexandria, but was never built. The ROW would have followed the railway to Sutherland, then diverge from the Princes Hwy to head NE through Gymea, Miranda & Taren Point across the Captain Cook Bridge, then through Ramsgate, Sans Souci and Brighton Le Sands, then crossing the M5 S Western Mwy at a golf course, then cutting through Tempe and St Peters to terminaate in Alexandria.
Even thought these projects were cancelled some 30+ years ago, ironically, gridlock in Sydney warrants these roads so badly that the NSW gov can't pay for the costs!

[Mr. Matté]

If you saw 60 Minutes last Sunday (4/25), the new SF-O Bay Bridge had to deal with NIMFY: The US Navy was angry that the new bridge might cast a shadow on the Chester Nimitz Mansion on Yerba Buena Island. The designers had to make sure that the new one wouldn't do so.

And for my local example of NIMBY, dare I say I-95 in New Jersey?

[Brandon]

NIMBYs cause some serious congestion in their quest to preserve the "ruralness" or "quaintness" of an area.  This is a big problem in Lake County, Illinois, and why IL-53 has never been built north of Lake-Cook Road.  Since the freeway/tollway is as thus unbuilt, all the traffic is forced onto two-lane roads.

[Revive 755]

The funny thing is, start proposing rail construction and the NIMBYs are oddly quiet.

Not always true; a light rail line in the St. Louis area (the Cross County Metrolink line) had a serious fight with NIMBYs, which ended up pushing the line underground along the Forest Park Parkway, and therefore significantly increasing the cost of the project.

[vdeane]

I hate NIMBYs.  I also hate the people that believe cars are evil and that mass transit is god (in other words, the majority of the commentators for that article).  They're all irrational and extremely selfish.  Given how long it takes to build a freeway these days, there's no way they could have bought their home without knowing about any planned freeways in the area, so it's their own fault if it's in their backyard.  Newsflash to NIMBYs: you're not more important than everyone else in the region.  And if some of the transit people had their way, I'm sure that no freeways (or even cars, for that matter) would exist at all.

[Brandon]

^^
NIBMYs can and do protest almost any sort of building that they feel might affect their way of life, property values, them personally, etc.  They've been known to stop sidewalk and bike path construction as well as opposing new schools and fire stations.

Bunch of selfish jerks, IMHO.

[Chris]

Move to China. No NIMBY's

I'm interested to see how much tax dollars NIMBY's cost per year. Projects tend to get ridiculous mitigation solutions, especially in Europe where half of the current new freeways in urban areas are constructed underground where it is technically not really necessary.

The High Speed Rail line in the Netherlands has a 4 mile tunnel under what is basically a bunch of pastures with cows you'll see everywhere in the Netherlands. And God knows how expensive it is to build a tunnel in the Dutch soil that is more like noodle soup. No surprise this 85 mile HSR has cost $ 10 billion.

Similar projects with freeways. The A4 freeway near Rotterdam was partially constructed on an embankment in the 1960's, when construction stopped. Right now they want to build this one into a 2 mile tunnel. This 4 mile freeway will have 2+3 lanes and cost a staggering $ 900 million! And it doesn't even require a new or wider ROW, it's all there.

[florida]

If you saw 60 Minutes last Sunday (4/25), the new SF-O Bay Bridge had to deal with NIMFY: The US Navy was angry that the new bridge might cast a shadow on the Chester Nimitz Mansion on Yerba Buena Island. The designers had to make sure that the new one wouldn't do so.

If they don't build the new bridge, that won't be the only shadow cast upon the Chester Nimitz Mansion when the next big earthquake hits the area. It's always more important to have a major transportation link severed in the name of.....sunshine

[D-Dey65]

The funny thing is, start proposing rail construction and the NIMBYs are oddly quiet.

Don't be so sure of that. They're also opposing a third track along the Main Line of the LIRR into Hicksville, and delayed SEPTA's re-establishment of the Girard Street(Route 15) Trolley for a while. If the LIRR were to try to make a connecting line between the Port Washington and Oyster Bay Branches, you can bet they'll never let it happen.

[myosh_tino]

The funny thing is, start proposing rail construction and the NIMBYs are oddly quiet.

Sorry but that's not true in California either.  The High Speed Rail project is running into significant opposition from residents in the cities of San Jose, Palo Alto, Burlingame and Atherton, just to name a few, because the current design puts the tracks on elevated berms or bridges.  Needless to say, a number of (very wealthy) residents along the peninsula between San Jose and San Francisco aren't too pleased and are asking/demanding that the tracks be put in a trench and/or tunnel.

[roadfro]

NIMBYs, in the form of the Sierra Club, set back the US 95 widening project in Las Vegas for over a year.  They filed a lawsuit challenging the EIS...after the project had already started.  While the suit was being heard, there was an order prohibiting widening work from proceeding (although soundwalls and flood control channels were permitted to continue).  This resulted in freeway traffic being routed over a 5-mile stretch of bumpy temporary pavement with poorly-marked random lane shifts for over a year.  What's more is that NDOT had already acquired most of the needed right of way for the widening, so they'd have been stuck with a lot of useless land had the widening been halted. Ultimately, the suit was settled after NDOT agreed to do some air quality monitoring and do a bit of environmental/soundproofing upgrades at a couple schools that abut the freeway.

[njroadhorse]

In New Jersey, NIMBYs have killed several freeways that would have made at least a decent difference.  The first one that comes to mind is NJ 14, the mythical freeway that was supposed to run across Bergen County to Westchester County to relieve I-80 of traffic.  This was seen to be a crucial freeway, but intense opposition is what killed it.  Look at the area today, and not a moment goes by when the George Washington Bridge or the Tappan Zee is not traffic jammed because ALL the traffic trying to get across the Hudson has to go to one of those two bridges.

The second one that sticks out for me is NJ 75, a proposed N-S freeway in Newark.  First announced in 1961, this freeway was supposed to support both NJ 21 and the Garden State Parkway through the city to relieve congestion.  By 1970, minority communities were gaining power in Newark politics, and were able to keep the proposed highway in the courts until 1973, when the plans were shelved.

[jjakucyk]

Honestly, as bad as NIMBY-ism can be, you have to look at why it exists.  A lot of it is rather irrational, such as fighting things like bike paths and sidewalks.  Other times it can be downright racist, where folks oppose public transit extensions because it "might let black people move in."  People fight transit and denser development because they think there's something inherently bad about it, and that only "bad people" prefer to live that way.   

On the other hand, in many cases the opposition comes from people who are being forced to put up with additional hardships while not receiving enough benefits (or any at all) from the project themselves.  That's why opposing things like sidewalks, bike paths, or transit projects is usually based on irrational fears, because those things usually DO positively impact adjoining properties.  Power or sewage treatment plants, highways, road widening, or freight rail expansion, almost never benefit the people who live nearby.  They may benefit the city as a whole, but the perception is that these projects are for "those new people" in farther flung areas, not those who are already there. 

That new power plant may allow for more industrial development or further growth of the region, but for the person who already lives there, it's just more pollution or more (usually imagined) danger.  The sewage treatment plant wasn't needed when the existing residents moved there, so adding it only makes their neighborhood smell.  The widened roads and new highways will bring more noise, pollution, and traffic as drivers will prefer to use the new bigger roads instead of finding alternatives.  As already mentioned, transit projects aren't immune either.  Passenger rail projects have been fought over fears of pollution from diesel locomotives.  Electrically powered trains or streetcars face opposition because of the "unsightly overhead wires." 

You just can't win with some people, but the trick is to find out why they're so upset.  The opposition to road projects really shouldn't be surprising, because roads are all we've been building for decades.  People want some more choice in how they get around, and blocking highways and new roads is one way to do that.

[Bryant5493]

Honestly, as bad as NIMBY-ism can be, you have to look at why it exists.  A lot of it is rather irrational, such as fighting things like bike paths and sidewalks.  Other times it can be downright racist, where folks oppose public transit extensions because it "might let black people move in."  People fight transit and denser development because they think there's something inherently bad about it, and that only "bad people" prefer to live that way.

That's one of the reasons why Metro Atlanta public transportation sucks. When MARTA was started back in the day, no other counties other than Fulton and DeKalb wanted to fund it; however, many residents from the neighboring counties (Clayton, Gwinnett, Cobb, Douglas, etc.) use MARTA. Recently, C-Tran (Clayton County Transit) was dissolved because the county commissioners couldn't allocate funds to fund the transit system for its citizens, many of whom used C-Tran and MARTA.


Be well,

Bryant

[Mergingtraffic]

JJ that could be true.
In CT, the DOT wanted to 4-lane CT-66 with a median jersey barrier.  CT-66 was widened but without the median jersey barrier because NIMBYs, who didn't want the project anyway, thought the widening was too large.  There are no stores here, just woods and a reservoir.  It was also finished ahead of schedule.

Now, the widened portion of CT-66 is at the end I-691, so even though the speed limit drops to 40mph, people are still going a lot faster.  Actually, I think the road is dangerous because there is no jersey barrier.  There are some curves and the chances for a head on collision are ripe.  Plus traffic going at highway speeds.

What I think happened, is that the NIMBYs saw the plans and got nervous, so they were against the jersey barrier.  So, the DOT caved in and there you go.

I mean, really...in the end, would the jersey barrier make that big a difference on the local community?  No, I notice NIMBYs look at certain things and raise a big stink over it, and now the motoring public has to deal with issues because the project was scaled back in someway. (In this case, no median jersey barrier)

Soon, there is going to be a fatality because of no median barrier and people will say "put in the barrier"