Last Phase I signs in Vermont are disappearing in 2010

[shadyjay]

Vermont AOT is going forward with two major sign replacing projects this season: 

I-89 from (likely) Exit 3 to (roughly) Exit 9 - 40 miles (as evident by VMSs)
Visual inspection from Exit 6 to Exit 9 shows installation of new posts to support the signs. 

I-91 from Exit 24 to Exit 28 or 29 - Northeast Kingdom
This will replace the last of the original I-91 signage in Vermont, of which button copy remains, for Exits 24-25.  In this area, signage has deteriorated to the point where rest area signs are more white or purple than blue, a couple of all-text "FOOD-PHONE-GAS-LODGING" signs remain, and exit tabs are non-existant.  Signage north of Exit 25 to Newport is more modern but according to www.511vt.com, the project extends to Exit 28.  Exit 29 is on the Canadian border.


What to expect with the new signs, based on what we've seen elsewhere:
*  Small green on white markers count the tenths of a mile... 1-05, 1-10, 1-15, 1-20, 1-25, etc
*  Reassurance shields will feature only numerals in the shield, and an Eisenhower Interstate System shield below
*  Full 3 BGSs for each exit (typically 1 mile, 1/2 mile, and ->).  It is possible we may see some new overhead assemblies to get the "3 per exit".
*  Service symbols (food, phone, gas, etc) shown on a separate blue sign instead of attached to a BGS
*  State route shields in the green oval, replacing the older circle

As before during the I-91 projects from White River Jct to Lyndonville, I will do my best to document the progress, but will probably be limited to just the I-89 segment. 

In addition, the project MAY OR MAY NOT involve the replacement of the metric-only advance distance signs between I-89 Exits 9 & 10.  When I drove this way the other day between Exits 10 & 6, I wasn't paying attention to the signs until I was heading SB after Exit 9.

[Alex]

They were replacing signs in and around St. Johnsberry when we traveled Interstate 91 in July 2007 (still have not posted the photos from this trip...). They did exactly what you mentioned on I-89 today back then and posted empty sign poles in front of every sign to be replaced.

I don't care for the neutered shield/Eisenhower Interstate system combo, but it is nice to see more of the green oval state shields in place...

[froggie]

I'll be able to do some before/after, at least at Exit 24 on I-91 (it's my back way into Lyndonville).

[shadyjay]

Recon mission today on I-89 SB within the project limits from Exit 9 (Middlesex) to Exit 6 (Northfield).  Crews were actively working in various locations SB between Exits 8 & 6 and I saw them dismantling an old sign, and a truck with brand new BGSs on it, waiting to be installed.  Of course it was raining so didn't take pics - that and I left the camera at home.  Anyway, here's an update:

*   The font used is questionable - in areas where the old and the new BGSs are side-by-side, a difference in text is noticeable.  Also, there's something about the "9" on the Exit Gores that seems too curly... It very well may be Clearview.
*   The state circle shield is being replaced with the green "VERMONT" oval.  
*   Exit services are now posted on a separate "BBS" instead of attached to the last BGS for each exit.
*   The NB mileage sign after Exit 9 which gave KM-only distances to Waterbury & Burlington remains, but just past it, a brand new sign with mile distances.  
*   The SB mileage sign after Exit 10 which gives KM-only distances to Middlesex & Montpelier is out of the project limits (for now)
*   Former sign which had english/french "Welcome to Montpelier - Capital Of Vermont" has been replaced with english-only on the new sign.  
*   The old and the new BGSs are both up in some places.  In some cases, the distances between the two 1 mile signs varies.  
*   For Exit 7-SB, the old last BGS was located about 1/4 mile away from the exit, but still had the -> arrow.  This was because of a bridge and a rock ledge prohibited a standard ground-mounted installation.  The new BGS now has a NEXT RIGHT tag in the same location.  It is unknown whether or not an overhead sign will be placed closer to the exit.  The "ledge before exit" occurs at Exit 7-NB.  On I-91 in St J, when those signs were replaced a few years ago, overhead gantries went up.  So it remains to be seen what will happen here.

I am heading down to CT next weekend and will cover I-89 from Exit 6, southward to Exit "0-S".  I believe the project limits for this sign project last until Exit 3 so I will see what's happening further south, and hopefully will have better weather for pics (and remember the camera, too).  

[agentsteel53]

I'll likely be driving 89 on Labor Day, unless I get disgusted with all the retroreflective signage and jump onto US-4 or whatnot.

will this resigning finally give an exit number to the junction of 91 and 93?  I've gotten lost there on multiple occasions because the sequential exit numbers are borked.

[shadyjay]

will this resigning finally give an exit number to the junction of 91 and 93?  I've gotten lost there on multiple occasions because the sequential exit numbers are borked.

Those signs for the 91/93 junction in St Johnsbury were replaced a few years ago.  I-91's exit to I-93 has always been Exit 19, but I-93 has no exit number for I-91 - no need to, since its the end of the interstate.

The 89/91 junction only has exits numbered for I-91 to I-89 (Exit 10N-S).  I-89 to I-91 exits never got a number, and most likely will not be numbered until mileage-based exits become mandatory, then they'd be Exit 1N-S.   I-89's present signing project southern terminus is somewhere around Exit 3 (Bethel), about 20 miles or so from I-91/White River Jct. 

The oldest signs on I-89 are still between Exits 13 and 20 (Burlington to Saint Albans), with many of them not having exit tabs and some signs missing (though nowhere near as old as those on I-91 between Lyndonville and Barton).  But while I-91's "oldies but goodies" are being replaced, I-89's north end will have to wait (at least) another year.

[froggie]

I won't be up to the NEK until Labor Day weekend.  Whether I get a chance to check status of I-91 north of Lyndonville (Exit 24) still remains to be seen...

[shadyjay]

A couple checks of the webcams on I-91 in the Newport area show a new sign.    http://170.222.32.148/10/

I hope to get up that way in the next couple of weeks, though since April I've only left the confines of the Mad River Valley a handful of times and have only been on the interstates once since May. 

[shadyjay]

7/23 Update
Roadway:  Interstate 89
Territory:  Exit 5 (Northfield) to Exit 1 (White River Jct)

Confirmed:  Re-signing project southern terminus is 1 mile before Exit 3 (Royalton). 

From Exit 5 to Exit 3, limited work has been done to the BGSs... a crew was observed in the left lane replacing the small yellow markers just past Exit 5, SB.  A few new posts to hold signs were observed.

Also observed a crew northbound with a crane actively replacing signs for Exit 4 in Randolph.  One BGS for Exit 4 (NB) was partially installed - only the top 1/3 of the sign was up, including the exit tab, and the route markers were "VT 66 TO VT 12"... VT 14 has been left out, unlike the old NB signs.  Southbound, however, the old signs have just advertised "VT 66 TO VT 12".  (for those that don't know, intersecting routes at Exits 3, 4, and 5 connect VT 12 on the west side of I-89 to VT 14 on the east side).

A full northbound progress report will occur on my trip back home on Monday 7/26, with pics - providing the weather is decent.  On the northbound trip, I intend to cover the entire project limit length (Exits 3-9). 

[shadyjay]

Okay folks, here's your entire northbound I-89 signage update with before-after pics, taken 7-26-2010...

http://picasaweb.google.com/shadyjayvt/I89SignReplacementSummer2010#
(link corrected Nov 2010)

[cu2010]

Looks like Clearview's invaded yet another state...

[shadyjay]

Looks like we can expect to see a lot more Clearview.... and here's why:

http://www.aot.state.vt.us/PressReleases/2010/August/NewStandardsCallForInterstateSignReplacement.htm

[Alex]

Looks like we can expect to see a lot more Clearview.... and here's why:

http://www.aot.state.vt.us/PressReleases/2010/August/NewStandardsCallForInterstateSignReplacement.htm

*shakes head reading that*

Well, will all sign replacements be carbon copies? Or will they finally put proper exit tabs for Exit 14 (U.S. 2) along Interstate 89 and ditch the "Thru Traffic" panels at the same interchange?

[froggie]

The press release doesn't specifically mention Clearview.  I'm guessing Jay's reaction is because the recent sign replacements have been in Clearview.  I haven't been up there lately to see for myself, though I'll be in the NEK in a few weeks.

I also find that press release amusing in that the '09 MUTCD requires mile-based exit numbering, yet last year when I inquired with VTrans about it, they said they had no plans to change from sequential.

[vdeane]

Exit 17 needs exit tabs as well.

[shadyjay]

I am assuming, since signs are being replaced to conform to the latest standards, that all new installations will be in Clearview.  I have yet to be on I-91 north of St J in several years so I'm not sure if its Clearview up there like on I-89 or not - I'll add that on my "list of things to do". 

According to 511vt.com, they are also replacing signs on I-89 from Middlesex (Exit 9) to Colchester (Exit 16).   I'll try to get a visual confirmation of most of this stretch come this weekend (weather permitting).  As previously mentioned above, many of these signs lack exit tabs and have the "THRU TRAFFIC" pull-through.  I like to think that this will be changed to a "NORTH I-89" or something similar, but I have my doubts  (remembering back to when signs on I-91 were replaced north of White River Jct, why the I-91 North pullthrough only got a single arrow, not two).

[mightyace]

^^^

If I understand things correctly, Clearview is only optional in the 2009 MUCTD not required.

Or, does Vermont's MUCTD require Clearview?

[Scott5114]

From what I can tell Clearview isn't mentioned in the 2009 MUTCD at all. It continues to operate under the same experimental process that it did under the 2003 MUTCD. (Pretty much, you have to get a permit from FHWA for it.)

[mightyace]

^^^

Thanks.

So, the bottom line is as I thought: The fed may be requiring Vermont (and other states?) to change their signs but they are under no compulsion to use Clearview.

[TheStranger]

So, the bottom line is as I thought: The fed may be requiring Vermont (and other states?) to change their signs but they are under no compulsion to use Clearview.

I think a good parallel example is California's recent resigning projects (i.e. the massive resigning project in metro Sacramento that has had two big phases, in 2008 and late 2009) - signs less than a year old still do not have any hint of Clearview on them.

(Not that California is the best example, given its own vagaries to federal standards. )

[shadyjay]

Drove between Exits 10 & 12 the other day.  No new signs yet, but the foundations / holes are in. 

Any further interstate driving is on hold until I get the truck's front end repaired.

[froggie]

Did a brief detour up to Exit 24 before I headed back south this morning.  The new signs are in place there...at least on northbound I-91.  And are in Clearview.

[shadyjay]

Drove up to switch my plates over to VT last Friday, encompassing I-89 between Exits 10 & 14.  The only new sign up so far is on the US 2 bridge over I-89 for Exit 14W and it is indeed in Clearview.  This is big news, as many signs between Exits 12 & 17 lack exit tabs.  The SB sign on that same bridge has yet to be replaced, however.  Otherwise, still not much progress on other signs, giving me the impression this project may not be finished this construction season.

[agentsteel53]

I just did all of 89 about a week ago.  Plenty of clearview.  No button copy left on I-89 northbound at all.

two classic 1957 spec I-89 shields remain northbound.  One has been turned around 180 degrees, so that normally flowing traffic sees the back of the shield!

[shadyjay]

Here's an update:
New mile markers are being put in and are along I-89 between Exits 9 & 8 (most likely stretching down to Exit 3).  Every 0.2 tenths of a mile, there is a mile marker the size of a traditional marker, as illustrated crudely below:

MILE
   5
   2
   -
  .2

It could be worse... at least they didn't do what NH does - put up a giant one that's about 10' tall and says the route and direction every 0.2 tenths of a mile.