Does Delaware's Interstate 495 enter Pennsylvania?

[hbelkins]

Every mile of Interstate in Pennsylvania?  Not even close.  Every Interstate?  All except 86 and 579.  And I was so close to 86 on a road trip in June I should have done it just for the heck of it.  I've even been on 495.  If anyone doesn't believe there's a 495 in Pennsylvania, drive from Philadelphia to Wilmington some time and take careful note of where the signage is.

I drove 495 north to the first exit in PA and then drove back south on 95. I-495 ends short of the state line and is entirely in Delaware.

Modified the topic subject from "Have you been on all the interstates in your state"

[Michael in Philly]

Every mile of Interstate in Pennsylvania?  Not even close.  Every Interstate?  All except 86 and 579.  And I was so close to 86 on a road trip in June I should have done it just for the heck of it.  I've even been on 495.  If anyone doesn't believe there's a 495 in Pennsylvania, drive from Philadelphia to Wilmington some time and take careful note of where the signage is.

I drove 495 north to the first exit in PA and then drove back south on 95. I-495 ends short of the state line and is entirely in Delaware.

Not southbound it isn't.  Look at where Pennsylvania's mile 0 on 95 is.  I pass it several times a month.
EDIT:  As corroborated by this, if you zoom in enough.  http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.819942,-75.448716&spn=0.003659,0.006856&z=17

[Grzrd]

Every mile of Interstate in Pennsylvania?  Not even close.  Every Interstate?  All except 86 and 579.  And I was so close to 86 on a road trip in June I should have done it just for the heck of it.  I've even been on 495.  If anyone doesn't believe there's a 495 in Pennsylvania, drive from Philadelphia to Wilmington some time and take careful note of where the signage is.

I drove 495 north to the first exit in PA and then drove back south on 95. I-495 ends short of the state line and is entirely in Delaware.

Not southbound it isn't.  Look at where Pennsylvania's mile 0 on 95 is.  I pass it several times a month.
EDIT:  As corroborated by this, if you zoom in enough.  http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.819942,-75.448716&spn=0.003659,0.006856&z=17

Looks like you have developed a great question for FHWA because their website does not include Pennsylvania mileage for I-495: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/routefinder/table3.cfm

[Michael in Philly]

Every mile of Interstate in Pennsylvania?  Not even close.  Every Interstate?  All except 86 and 579.  And I was so close to 86 on a road trip in June I should have done it just for the heck of it.  I've even been on 495.  If anyone doesn't believe there's a 495 in Pennsylvania, drive from Philadelphia to Wilmington some time and take careful note of where the signage is.

I drove 495 north to the first exit in PA and then drove back south on 95. I-495 ends short of the state line and is entirely in Delaware.

Not southbound it isn't.  Look at where Pennsylvania's mile 0 on 95 is.  I pass it several times a month.
EDIT:  As corroborated by this, if you zoom in enough.  http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=39.819942,-75.448716&spn=0.003659,0.006856&z=17

Looks like you have developed a great question for FHWA because their website does not include Pennsylvania mileage for I-495: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/routefinder/table3.cfm

You know, every reference source I've ever seen treats 495 as being in Delaware.  And of course its exit number from 95 southbound is on the Delaware numbering.  Is it possible that the gore point got pulled to the north through widenings?  Truth be told, it was about the tenth time I drove past that little mile-0 marker that I said, hey wait a minute.

[Duke87]

Mainline 495 probably ends in Delaware, and what extends into Pennsylvania would officially be considered just a ramp.

Another tidbit: Pennsylvania does have a number for the interchange (SR 8009), so they are maintaining their piece of it.

(see official map of Delaware County)
EDIT: you'll have to manually remove the "http://"

[Grzrd]

every reference source I've ever seen treats 495 as being in Delaware.  And of course its exit number from 95 southbound is on the Delaware numbering.  Is it possible that the gore point got pulled to the north through widenings?  Truth be told, it was about the tenth time I drove past that little mile-0 marker that I said, hey wait a minute.

Mainline 495 probably ends in Delaware, and what extends into Pennsylvania would officially be considered just a ramp.
Another tidbit: Pennsylvania does have a number for the interchange (SR 8009), so they are maintaining their piece of it.
(see official map of Delaware County)
EDIT: you'll have to manually remove the "http://"

I emailed FHWA and received an interesting reply this a.m.(here's relevant part):

"Yes it does appear that the off-ramp to begin I-495 begins north of the
Delaware border in PA. It may still be considered a ramp of I-95 in PA.
The Route log is a general report on the segments of the Interstate.  Is
there a reason you are asking that would require a more formal review?
Thank you for your interest in the Interstate Program."

Looks like Duke87 is correct in that it is currently officially an I-95 off-ramp.  However, a more formal review would be possible (I don't have a compelling reason).  In looking at the I-495 page here on AARoads, it looks like a ramp lengthening project ended around 2003.  The FHWA Route Log was initially put together in 2002 and it is quite possible no one took a re-look at I-495 for 2007 revision.  Who knows? Michael in Philly's guess about the gore point might be correct, too.

When does an off-ramp end and an interstate begin?  Here, it is my guess is that it is easier for both states and feds to say I-495 begins at state line.

[hbelkins]

When does an off-ramp end and an interstate begin?  Here, it is my guess is that it is easier for both states and feds to say I-495 begins at state line.

I would say at the "0" mile marker, but in this case it wouldn't apply since I-495 is a north-south route and this is the northern terminus, not the southern one where the "0" MM would be placed.

[Michael in Philly]

When does an off-ramp end and an interstate begin?  Here, it is my guess is that it is easier for both states and feds to say I-495 begins at state line.

I would say at the "0" mile marker, but in this case it wouldn't apply since I-495 is a north-south route and this is the northern terminus, not the southern one where the "0" MM would be placed.

The 0 mile marker I was talking about is the one for Pennsylvania's segment of 95, which is a couple of hundred feet south of what any layman would consider the fork.
As far as ramps:  well - again from a non-specialist's point of view - I'd say that I-78 eastbound, for example, begins where the ramp from 81 north to 78 east and the ramp from 81 south to 78 east meet to form a single road.  The thing about that 95/495 situation is 95 south to 495 south is the only movement possible southbound (and northbound, you just have 495 merging onto 95), so to my mind there isn't really a ramp at all.

[hbelkins]

The 0 mile marker I was talking about is the one for Pennsylvania's segment of 95, which is a couple of hundred feet south of what any layman would consider the fork.
As far as ramps:  well - again from a non-specialist's point of view - I'd say that I-78 eastbound, for example, begins where the ramp from 81 north to 78 east and the ramp from 81 south to 78 east meet to form a single road.  The thing about that 95/495 situation is 95 south to 495 south is the only movement possible southbound (and northbound, you just have 495 merging onto 95), so to my mind there isn't really a ramp at all.

Some interstates have 0.0 mile markers or "End I-xx" signs. As for I-78, going west the last mile marker is 0.2. There is no mile marker 0 going west. There may be going east, but I have only driven I-81 as the through movement going north on that route. At that exit, I-78 basically continues straight and I-81 exits to the left.

[Alex]

When does an off-ramp end and an interstate begin?  Here, it is my guess is that it is easier for both states and feds to say I-495 begins at state line.

Simple answer, where does the centerline formally begin/end? Ramps are often times not included in the centerline GIS files of a freeway, which usually give the mileage in a state. One should look at the GIS files for Delaware and Pennsylvania and see how the ramp is classified for further insight into it.

I will split the discussion of Interstate 495 into a separate topic.

[Michael in Philly]

I will split the discussion of Interstate 495 into a separate topic.

In "Northeast" or "Mid-Atlantic"? 

[froggie]

Simple answer, where does the centerline formally begin/end? Ramps are often times not included in the centerline GIS files of a freeway, which usually give the mileage in a state. One should look at the GIS files for Delaware and Pennsylvania and see how the ramp is classified for further insight into it.

Alex beat me to the general discussion of this.  And I have some of DelDOT's shapefiles.  Contrary to what Alex said, DelDOT DOES include and delineate ramps in its centerline shapefile.  And they officially consider it a ramp until the exit ramp to DE 92 splits off.  PennDOT shapefiles show it as the same thing Duke87 mentioned:  SR 8009.

[Grzrd]

DelDOT DOES include and delineate ramps in its centerline shapefile.  And they officially consider it a ramp until the exit ramp to DE 92 splits off.  PennDOT shapefiles show it as the same thing Duke87 mentioned:  SR 8009.

Does the "SR 8009 (I assume SR means 'State Route')" designation effectively make the section an "unsigned" 495, at least as far as Pennsylvania is concerned?  If so, does Delaware's opinion really matter?  Also, if unsigned, can Pennsylvania's 495 potentially steal the crown from D.C. I-95 for shortest interstate segment (0.11 miles)?

[NE2]

Why would the SR 8009 designation make it an unsigned I-495? PennDOT uses SR 8xxx for ramps.

[Grzrd]

PennDOT uses SR 8xxx for ramps.

I did not know that.  Thanks for answering my question.

When does an off-ramp end and an interstate begin?  Here, it is my guess is that it is easier for both states and feds to say I-495 begins at state line.

The 0 mile marker I was talking about is the one for Pennsylvania's segment of 95, which is a couple of hundred feet south of what any layman would consider the fork.

At the end of the day, Michael in Philly had a great "layman's observation" that differs from bureaucratic decision.  Oh, well ...

[Alps]

As a supporting example, the official definition of I-676 (NJ) ends at the state line, so it's doable even if the roadway unambiguously continues into the next state.  Everything in PA connecting I-495 to I-95 is part of a Federally funded interchange anyway, so designations are immaterial.

[sbeaver44]

Just going to add a little fuel to the fire on this discussion, since there was talk of the 78/81 split.

On I-81 North at the I-78 split, the 2 lanes for I-81 widen to 4.  At the point the road is 4 lanes (Northbound considered only), there are overhead guide signs showing the left two lanes for I-81 North traffic and the right two lanes for I-78 East traffic.  On this 4 lane section, but before the gore point, there is an East I-78 shield next to the right shoulder and an I-81 North shield next to the left shoulder.  There are also mile markers starting at 0 on that section of "78" before the gore point.

So, does I-78 begin before the gore point?  It seems so.  But then why, near Scranton, on 81 is the Drinker St exit (which is NB only, I believe) Exit 186, even though it is fully in the separate roadway that becomes or is I-84?

[Scott5114]

Adding fuel to a fire that extinguished itself last November is fairly unlikely to do anything

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Yeah, start a new thread. You'll get better results. 

[vdeane]

So, does I-78 begin before the gore point?  It seems so.  But then why, near Scranton, on 81 is the Drinker St exit (which is NB only, I believe) Exit 186, even though it is fully in the separate roadway that becomes or is I-84?

The road that becomes I-84 comes from I-81 SOUTH, not north.  They're also in different districts.