New Jersey Turnpike

[Tonytone]

Sorry I drive there all the time and haven't experienced it.
Whereas I experienced this ALL the time between exits 6-9 prior to it being doubled.
I'm not seeing the need.

Well, according to this https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11190.msg2486666#msg2486666 , your response 3134 states you made 28.5 trips in a 3 year period, or about 9 trips per year. Fairly easy to miss the congestion if you're not on it during evening rush hours or busy weekends. You further say that you're barely able to maintain the speed limit or 5 over, which even in normal traffic, indicates that traffic is barely moving above congested levels.

For some reason, you think that construction should only happen after a road not only is congested on a regular basis, but that you experienced such congestion. The turnpike wouldn't be considering widening the roadway if such congestion didn't exist already. Plus the turnpike has been widening overpasses for over 20 years now in anticipation of an eventual widening, indicating its future traffic levels will only increase, and congestion is expected..

What you should have done you feel so strongly, is provided the Turnpike Authority written testimony that you don't believe the southern portion of the turnpike has been widened during the recent public comment period.

Oh well.

Drive it at least 1 month, it is nothing like exit 6-9 pre 2014.
Also if I can go 70 mph, that is free flowing and that is the case.

Are you from the Tristate area? The population over here has grown exponentially in the last ten years.

Not including the amount of travelers that go through the area.

Im not from jersey, but when I cross that bridge I notice the traffic & bottlenecks.


iPhone

[hotdogPi]

The population over here has grown exponentially in the last ten years.

Population growth is supposed to be exponential. That's just how it works.

[Tonytone]

The population over here has grown exponentially in the last ten years.

Population growth is supposed to be exponential. That's just how it works.

Thats already known. But blue country is acting like the roads dont have backups.

So I had to make sure it was known.


iPhone

[roadman65]

The population over here has grown exponentially in the last ten years.

Population growth is supposed to be exponential. That's just how it works.

Thats already known. But blue country is acting like the roads dont have backups.

So I had to make sure it was known.


iPhone

Not only blue country but other regions of USA too.  Developers are allowed to develop and get richer while the roads that can't handle the increased traffic from the new developments get ignored.

[1995hoo]

The population over here has grown exponentially in the last ten years.

Population growth is supposed to be exponential. That's just how it works.

Thats already known. But blue country is acting like the roads dont have backups.

So I had to make sure it was known.


iPhone

Not only blue country but other regions of USA too.  Developers are allowed to develop and get richer while the roads that can't handle the increased traffic from the new developments get ignored.

"bluecountry" is the forum member who's been saying there are no traffic backups on the New Jersey Turnpike. Tonytone wasn't making a reference of the "blue state, red state" sort the TV commentators make.

[bluecountry]

The Turnpike is at or near capacity as it is today on the 4 lane segment, and is congested during peak times, including rush hour, summers, holidays, etc. mentioned above, and looking at a 20 year future growth period, the Turnpike will most certainly require 6 lanes in order to not having a failing LOS by 2040.

I'm not a frequent traveler of the Turnpike, but when I drove it last summer during a summer weekday, traffic moved between 35 and 80+ mph and was always fluctuating, random stop-and-go, trucks micropassing, etc. Is this acceptable for 2020, and will this be expected with traffic growth and future volumes by 2040?

For a more local example, I could argue I-64 does not need widening between Richmond and Williamsburg because I can drive it off-peak and be flowing at 60 - 70 mph the whole way (despite a 70 mph speed limit that nobody seems to be able to maintain), but I try it during a peak weekend or during the summer, and you could be moving 55-60 mph, then finally get up to the speed limit (70 mph), then have to slam the brakes down to 30 mph, and even occasionally to a complete stop, for what appears to be absolutely nothing. The highway is rural, interchanges are spaced out 5-10 miles apart, yet the traffic volumes are so heavy that it clogs. And rightfully so, by 2021, 21 miles from Newport News to Williamsburg will have been expanded to 6 lanes, 5 miles near Richmond expanded in 2019, and remaining 28 mile segment simply waiting for funding. An environmental impact statement has been completed on the whole corridor, recommended full 6 lane widening, and is getting completed in phases as funding is enabled.

As much as I've complained about it, I must admit the 12 miles completed in 2017 and 2019 from Newport News to Williamsburg have drastically improved that segment, and the 2019 widening of 5 miles east of I-295 removed what was for the longest time a major bottleneck, both far worse than the remaining rural segments. They get tight during peak weekends and rush hour, but easily move 75 - 80 mph (all complete segments are posted 65 mph, which they previously were prior to widening). No more exiting at Exit 211 or 205 to take US-60 to I-295 to avoid the 5 mile backup east of I-295, or slogging up Jefferson Ave in Newport News to avoid the constant stop-and-go up to Williamsburg during rush hour and holidays, plus the awful 4 to 2 lane drop heading north / westbound. Those segments will eventually require 8 lane widening, and is planned in the future, but 6 lanes made a huge difference over 4 lanes for this interim widening. The rural areas that are planned for 6 lanes should be adequate as they do not also carry local rush hour traffic alongside through traffic, but rather mostly through traffic.

I am very familiar with I-64.
Listen I drive the NJTP enough along with I-95/I-64 from the OBX to NE.
I can tell you IMO the NJTP really doesn't need that widening, I am not subject to those kind of delays.
It is NOTHING like:

-NJTP exit 6 bto 9 pre 2014
-I 95 DE pre-Christinia expansion
-I 95 DE tolls both pre 2010 project

And currently, I would say the following are more issues:
-NJTP WB spur needing 6 lanes
-NJTP exit 4-6 needing 8 lanes
-Tydings Bridge needing at the very least FULL shoulders
-I-95 in MD between I-895 and I-495 needing 12 lanes
-I-95 in VA from I-495 to exit 126 needing 12 lanes
-I-95 in VA from exit 126 to I-295 needing 8 lanes

Those are area with much more congestion.

[sprjus4]

I can tell you IMO the NJTP really doesn't need that widening, I am not subject to those kind of delays.

You either must get lucky, or drive it during off peak times that you're not subject to delays. It appears everybody else here has experienced otherwise.

Would you say I-64 is adequate?

[bluecountry]

I can tell you IMO the NJTP really doesn't need that widening, I am not subject to those kind of delays.

You either must get lucky, or drive it during off peak times that you're not subject to delays. It appears everybody else here has experienced otherwise.

Would you say I-64 is adequate?

Which segments?

It certainly is more congested than the NJTP exits 2-4.

[sprjus4]

I can tell you IMO the NJTP really doesn't need that widening, I am not subject to those kind of delays.

You either must get lucky, or drive it during off peak times that you're not subject to delays. It appears everybody else here has experienced otherwise.

Would you say I-64 is adequate?

Which segments?

It certainly is more congested than the NJTP exits 2-4.

The 4 lane segment between Exit 205 and Exit 234.

I can drive it during off peak periods and maintain 60 - 70 mph and "free flowing"  despite a posted 70 mph speed limit throughout.

[bluecountry]

I can tell you IMO the NJTP really doesn't need that widening, I am not subject to those kind of delays.

You either must get lucky, or drive it during off peak times that you're not subject to delays. It appears everybody else here has experienced otherwise.

Would you say I-64 is adequate?

Which segments?

It certainly is more congested than the NJTP exits 2-4.

The 4 lane segment between Exit 205 and Exit 234.

I can drive it during off peak periods and maintain 60 - 70 mph and "free flowing"  despite a posted 70 mph speed limit throughout.

It definitely needs it before the southern portion of the NJTP I'll say that much.
Haven't been on I-64 since 2017, so is construction now finished with the expansion?

[DrSmith]

First, the NJTP was so bad between exits 6-9 because of the lack of the Somerset Freeway and not getting to it sooner when earlier when LOS was decreasing. The few years before the construction started, it was routine for 25 mile delays to form from exits 6-8A on weekends constantly and significant other delays at other times. Those significant delays would not have happened if the work had been done sooner. It's unfair to use that as a comparison point. Using that as a basis says stop many projects until we have horrendous traffic.

Second, it is not appropriate to compare needs between the lists of items involving multiple jurisdictions. The NJTA is only responsible for two roadways, the turnpike and the parkway. That is all they can prioritize and manage, all based on their toll collection capability and ability to obtain bonds.  Even the other projects involve different states/jurisdictions, who each have to individually rank and prioritize based on their their resources and overall needs and those projects relative to needs.

[Tonytone]

The population over here has grown exponentially in the last ten years.

Population growth is supposed to be exponential. That's just how it works.

Thats already known. But blue country is acting like the roads dont have backups.

So I had to make sure it was known.


iPhone

Not only blue country but other regions of USA too.  Developers are allowed to develop and get richer while the roads that can't handle the increased traffic from the new developments get ignored.

"bluecountry" is the forum member who's been saying there are no traffic backups on the New Jersey Turnpike. Tonytone wasn't making a reference of the "blue state, red state" sort the TV commentators make.

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]. That was pretty good. I liked were you went with that.


iPhone

[NJRoadfan]

To be fair, traffic wasn't an issue south of Exit 6 before the big widening "uncorked" it. Now its routine for southbound backups at Exit 4 due to the lane drop.

[jeffandnicole]

To be fair, traffic wasn't an issue south of Exit 6 before the big widening "uncorked" it. Now its routine for southbound backups at Exit 4 due to the lane drop.

Interchange 1 had horrendous backups in the 1990s and early 2000s before the new plaza was built.  Traffic used to be forced off at Exit 4.

In modern times, traffic also congests going NB, which I can see from the overpasses between Exits 2 and 3, in which case the widened roadway between 6 & 9 has no effect on.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/rjm4mTUCkuLxga5a7
Philadelphia is now used for the NJ Turnpike on the Garden State Parkway.

[Roadrunner75]

Interchange 1 had horrendous backups in the 1990s and early 2000s before the new plaza was built.  Traffic used to be forced off at Exit 4.

It was because of this that I still avoid using that stretch of Turnpike by force of habit when heading south out of NJ, and turn to my old friend, I-295.  I like having more exit opportunities if I have to bail for some reason, and I've even gotten stuck in backups on the relatively few times I've used that stretch even after the new interchange was built.

[jeffandnicole]

https://goo.gl/maps/rjm4mTUCkuLxga5a7
Philadelphia is now used for the NJ Turnpike on the Garden State Parkway.

It's almost like you saw that and couldn't remember where you saw it...1 page ago...

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11190.msg2517373#msg2517373

[storm2k]

To be fair, traffic wasn't an issue south of Exit 6 before the big widening "uncorked" it. Now its routine for southbound backups at Exit 4 due to the lane drop.

Interchange 1 had horrendous backups in the 1990s and early 2000s before the new plaza was built.  Traffic used to be forced off at Exit 4.

In modern times, traffic also congests going NB, which I can see from the overpasses between Exits 2 and 3, in which case the widened roadway between 6 & 9 has no effect on.

The authority has started to post travel times ahead of Exit 4, to show the time to the Del Mem Br from the Turnpike and from 295. They always seem to think 295 takes longer. I haven't ever bothered to time it, but given that 295 traffic has to slog through the 76 interchange, Al-Jo Curve, and all of the construction over there, it probably does take a few minutes longer.

[famartin]

To be fair, traffic wasn't an issue south of Exit 6 before the big widening "uncorked" it. Now its routine for southbound backups at Exit 4 due to the lane drop.

Interchange 1 had horrendous backups in the 1990s and early 2000s before the new plaza was built.  Traffic used to be forced off at Exit 4.

In modern times, traffic also congests going NB, which I can see from the overpasses between Exits 2 and 3, in which case the widened roadway between 6 & 9 has no effect on.

The authority has started to post travel times ahead of Exit 4, to show the time to the Del Mem Br from the Turnpike and from 295. They always seem to think 295 takes longer. I haven't ever bothered to time it, but given that 295 traffic has to slog through the 76 interchange, Al-Jo Curve, and all of the construction over there, it probably does take a few minutes longer.

I think those signs are meant to estimate the time from "the sign" to the Del Mem Br via NJTP vs 295. So, naturally, it will be longer given you also have to exit onto 73. Unless there is a major issue on the turnpike. I have seen them for the last few years, but don't recall an instance where 295 was faster just yet. Bad luck I guess.

[storm2k]

To be fair, traffic wasn't an issue south of Exit 6 before the big widening "uncorked" it. Now its routine for southbound backups at Exit 4 due to the lane drop.

Interchange 1 had horrendous backups in the 1990s and early 2000s before the new plaza was built.  Traffic used to be forced off at Exit 4.

In modern times, traffic also congests going NB, which I can see from the overpasses between Exits 2 and 3, in which case the widened roadway between 6 & 9 has no effect on.

The authority has started to post travel times ahead of Exit 4, to show the time to the Del Mem Br from the Turnpike and from 295. They always seem to think 295 takes longer. I haven't ever bothered to time it, but given that 295 traffic has to slog through the 76 interchange, Al-Jo Curve, and all of the construction over there, it probably does take a few minutes longer.

I think those signs are meant to estimate the time from "the sign" to the Del Mem Br via NJTP vs 295. So, naturally, it will be longer given you also have to exit onto 73. Unless there is a major issue on the turnpike. I have seen them for the last few years, but don't recall an instance where 295 was faster just yet. Bad luck I guess.

That's fair. Still, their logic with some of those signs doesn't always make sense. For example, they have one before Exit 11 about time to 195 via the Parkway or the Turnpike. That makes no sense to me. Both roads take you to 195, but on opposite sides of the state. It really depends where you're going. If you're heading to Trenton, taking the Parkway to 98 and then having to cut clear across the state doesn't make a ton of sense. If you're heading to the shore, going down the Turnpike to 7A and cutting westward doesn't make a ton of sense either, especially on a summer weekend with GA traffic to contend with as well. Context does matter.

[bluecountry]

https://goo.gl/maps/rjm4mTUCkuLxga5a7
Philadelphia is now used for the NJ Turnpike on the Garden State Parkway.

Hopefully they do this for all exits.

[jeffandnicole]

To be fair, traffic wasn't an issue south of Exit 6 before the big widening "uncorked" it. Now its routine for southbound backups at Exit 4 due to the lane drop.

Interchange 1 had horrendous backups in the 1990s and early 2000s before the new plaza was built.  Traffic used to be forced off at Exit 4.

In modern times, traffic also congests going NB, which I can see from the overpasses between Exits 2 and 3, in which case the widened roadway between 6 & 9 has no effect on.

The authority has started to post travel times ahead of Exit 4, to show the time to the Del Mem Br from the Turnpike and from 295. They always seem to think 295 takes longer. I haven't ever bothered to time it, but given that 295 traffic has to slog through the 76 interchange, Al-Jo Curve, and all of the construction over there, it probably does take a few minutes longer.

I wouldn't say they *just* started posting travel times, as I have a picture from December, 2017 with the travel times posted!

For normal travel, there's a 6 minute difference shown for staying on the Turnpike the entire way from around Exit 4 south, vs. heading over to I-295.

A random check on Google Maps with free-flowing traffic on both roadways actually showed a 7 minute difference, so it appears the NJ Turnpike signage is accurate.  Figure 30 seconds lost on the ramp from the Turnpike to 73, a minute or 2 on 73 to 295, then 2 minutes due to a 55 mph limit (or less) for about 9 miles on 295 vs. 65 mph all the way on the Turnpike (about 1.5 minutes quicker). 

Plus, the Turnpike is shorter: A straight shot of 34.2 miles to the bridge from 73, vs.  36.9 miles on 295. The difference is 295 is curvier, especially including the slingshot Aljo Curve.  Plus, 73 goes in a northwest direction from the Turnpike, so you gain a little additional distance to travel there too.  So add another 2 minutes there, and you get your 6 - 7 minute time difference.

[sprjus4]

Haven't been on I-64 since 2017, so is construction now finished with the expansion?

It was split up into three phases, two of which have been complete.

Phase 1 covers Exit 255 - Exit 250, and was completed in December 2017.
Phase 2 covers Exit 250 - Exit 242 (southern VA-199 interchange), and was completed in April 2019.
Phase 3 covers Exit 242 - Exit 234 (northern VA-199 interchange), and will be complete in late 2021.

The completed segments with now 3 lanes in each direction have made a huge improvement over the old design with only 2 lanes in each direction.

Additionally, a fourth project near Richmond widened I-64 from 4 to 6 lanes between Exit 200 (I-295) and Exit 205, and was completed in August 2019.

The ultimate goal is to widen the remaining 28 miles between Exit 205 and Exit 234 to 6 lanes, though no funding has been secured. The planning organization for the Richmond area submitted an application on SmartScale (VDOT's funding program) a few years back to widen between Exit 205 and Exit 211, though did not receive funding. The HRTPO (Hampton Roads Transportation Planning Organization) is working to acquire funding for a Phase 4, spanning Exit 234 to Exit 227, and may well be complete by or before 2030, if not more additional segments such as the aforementioned Exit 205 - Exit 211 proposal.

[Alps]

To be fair, traffic wasn't an issue south of Exit 6 before the big widening "uncorked" it. Now its routine for southbound backups at Exit 4 due to the lane drop.

Interchange 1 had horrendous backups in the 1990s and early 2000s before the new plaza was built.  Traffic used to be forced off at Exit 4.

In modern times, traffic also congests going NB, which I can see from the overpasses between Exits 2 and 3, in which case the widened roadway between 6 & 9 has no effect on.

The authority has started to post travel times ahead of Exit 4, to show the time to the Del Mem Br from the Turnpike and from 295. They always seem to think 295 takes longer. I haven't ever bothered to time it, but given that 295 traffic has to slog through the 76 interchange, Al-Jo Curve, and all of the construction over there, it probably does take a few minutes longer.

I think those signs are meant to estimate the time from "the sign" to the Del Mem Br via NJTP vs 295. So, naturally, it will be longer given you also have to exit onto 73. Unless there is a major issue on the turnpike. I have seen them for the last few years, but don't recall an instance where 295 was faster just yet. Bad luck I guess.

That's fair. Still, their logic with some of those signs doesn't always make sense. For example, they have one before Exit 11 about time to 195 via the Parkway or the Turnpike. That makes no sense to me. Both roads take you to 195, but on opposite sides of the state. It really depends where you're going. If you're heading to Trenton, taking the Parkway to 98 and then having to cut clear across the state doesn't make a ton of sense. If you're heading to the shore, going down the Turnpike to 7A and cutting westward doesn't make a ton of sense either, especially on a summer weekend with GA traffic to contend with as well. Context does matter.

It's for Great Adventure.

[storm2k]

To be fair, traffic wasn't an issue south of Exit 6 before the big widening "uncorked" it. Now its routine for southbound backups at Exit 4 due to the lane drop.

Interchange 1 had horrendous backups in the 1990s and early 2000s before the new plaza was built.  Traffic used to be forced off at Exit 4.

In modern times, traffic also congests going NB, which I can see from the overpasses between Exits 2 and 3, in which case the widened roadway between 6 & 9 has no effect on.

The authority has started to post travel times ahead of Exit 4, to show the time to the Del Mem Br from the Turnpike and from 295. They always seem to think 295 takes longer. I haven't ever bothered to time it, but given that 295 traffic has to slog through the 76 interchange, Al-Jo Curve, and all of the construction over there, it probably does take a few minutes longer.

I think those signs are meant to estimate the time from "the sign" to the Del Mem Br via NJTP vs 295. So, naturally, it will be longer given you also have to exit onto 73. Unless there is a major issue on the turnpike. I have seen them for the last few years, but don't recall an instance where 295 was faster just yet. Bad luck I guess.

That's fair. Still, their logic with some of those signs doesn't always make sense. For example, they have one before Exit 11 about time to 195 via the Parkway or the Turnpike. That makes no sense to me. Both roads take you to 195, but on opposite sides of the state. It really depends where you're going. If you're heading to Trenton, taking the Parkway to 98 and then having to cut clear across the state doesn't make a ton of sense. If you're heading to the shore, going down the Turnpike to 7A and cutting westward doesn't make a ton of sense either, especially on a summer weekend with GA traffic to contend with as well. Context does matter.

It's for Great Adventure.

Then it would be better if they said "Six Flags" on the signs. That does make more sense since the exit for 537 is basically smack in the middle of the distance from Parkway to Turnpike.