New Jersey Turnpike

[Alps]

BAM!  No one steal my idea.

So what about the part of the outer lanes just south of exit 6?? Can't have those be blank. Since 895 might still be used for the new Burlington Bristol Bridge, I-1095?

Why not?  From a numbering perspective, they'd be ramps.  Long and wide ones, but ramps.

take it to Fictional (:

[02 Park Ave]

I hope that all of the money spent on AET results in uniform per mile tolling on each of the various roads and does away with the current haphazard and inconsistent tolling.

Here are some examples:  Traveling east on the ACE there is a toll getting off at Exit 9 but no toll if you stay on and get off at Exit 7.  Traveling north on the GSP there is a toll getting off at Exit 165 but no toll if you exit further north.

Then on the NJT there is the inconsistencies in the northbound toll differentials between getting off at Exit 11 and getting off at Exit 10.  Depending on at which exit you entered the Turnpike, you could pay (from Exit 8A) 10¢ or (from Exit 2) 95¢ just to travel those 3 miles.  If you get on at Exit 1 the differential is 85¢ but if you get on at Exit 3 it is only 20¢.  Assuming the toll to get off at Exit 10 covers the distance you've traveled from whatever exit, why are there these differences in how much more the toll is to get off at Exit 11?  Hopefully this will be corrected with AET although there is no reason it couldn't be done now by the Turnpike.

[jeffandnicole]

AET is part of progress. It's coming wether we like it or not. Get used to it.

Even the Will Rogers Turnpike in Oklahoma is getting it. Was talking to a toll booth collector at the Vinita plaza and she says her days are numbered. She was sad about it as she loved her job, but as we all know, automation is here and we have no choice but to go along.

I don't think most Tpk & Pkwy travelers will mind the elimination of toll plazas. Per https://www.njta.com/investor-relations/traffic-revenue , 92.5% of travelers this past month used EZ Pass on the Turnpike, and slightly under 91% on the Parkway.

It's those other 8 - 9% of travelers that will mind, and what the NJTA will care about also, because they're going to have to send bills and hope people actually pay the bill.

I imagine full time toll collector positions have gone down considerably over the years, but I noted in the financials that part time positions are being reduced also, which may lead to additional overtime for the full timers.  In the past, when toll collector positions have been eliminated, the Authority has offered toll collectors other positions that they may qualify for, especially in maintenance.   

I hope that all of the money spent on AET results in uniform per mile tolling on each of the various roads and does away with the current haphazard and inconsistent tolling.

Here are some examples:  Traveling east on the ACE there is a toll getting off at Exit 9 but no toll if you stay on and get off at Exit 7.  Traveling north on the GSP there is a toll getting off at Exit 165 but no toll if you exit further north.

Then on the NJT there is the inconsistencies in the northbound toll differentials between getting off at Exit 11 and getting off at Exit 10.  Depending on at which exit you entered the Turnpike, you could pay (from Exit 8A) 10¢ or (from Exit 2) 95¢ just to travel those 3 miles.  If you get on at Exit 1 the differential is 85¢ but if you get on at Exit 3 it is only 20¢.  Assuming the toll to get off at Exit 10 covers the distance you've traveled from whatever exit, why are there these differences in how much more the toll is to get off at Exit 11?  Hopefully this will be corrected with AET although there is no reason it couldn't be done now by the Turnpike.

It looks like this issue will be corrected on the ACX being they're placing gantries between each interchange.

For the Turnpike, that would be easy to resolve also, but as you pointed out they haven't done it yet.  Could be just ingrained culture that most people don't notice or mind.  The Parkway would require quite a number of gantries to have motorists incur tolls between every interchange, but at an estimated $500 million to construct the system, that may be what they're looking to do.

[vdeane]

I imagine that a lot of the gaps on the Parkway can be closed simply by reverting to two-way tolling on the mainline.

[MASTERNC]

Then on the NJT there is the inconsistencies in the northbound toll differentials between getting off at Exit 11 and getting off at Exit 10.  Depending on at which exit you entered the Turnpike, you could pay (from Exit 8A) 10¢ or (from Exit 2) 95¢ just to travel those 3 miles.  If you get on at Exit 1 the differential is 85¢ but if you get on at Exit 3 it is only 20¢.  Assuming the toll to get off at Exit 10 covers the distance you've traveled from whatever exit, why are there these differences in how much more the toll is to get off at Exit 11?  Hopefully this will be corrected with AET although there is no reason it couldn't be done now by the Turnpike.

The PA Turnpike has the same issue.  They note this is due to different "revenue requirements" that were set when each section was opened.  When open-road tolling gantries are activated, they will make the rates consistent on a per-mile basis.  My guess is this will be an upward movement (and not downward).

[lstone19]

And don't get me started on the Illinois Tollway where there are places you can exit and pay a ramp toll or stay on another few miles and pay a lower ramp toll or nothing at all (and vice versa for entrances). Examples: I-90 WB pay nothing to enter at I-290 or pay $0.45 farther west at Roselle Rd. and Barrington Rd. Or also on I-90 WB, pay $0.30 to exit at Exit 47 (IL-47) or go west another five miles to Exit 42 (US-20) and pay nothing to exit. Since both are in the influence area of the Elgin mainline toll, I-290 to U.S. 20 costs $0.75 (I-Pass/EZ-Pass) while the 10 miles shorter Barrington Rd. to IL-47 costs $1.50. Illinois Tollway has lost all sense of the logic of toll collection and just throws ramp tolls on at random every time they do a little bit of construction (all three cited interchanges, IL-47, Roselle Rd., and Barrington Rd. have the absurdity of ramp tolls in both directions which does not fit with a system where there is a mainline toll plaza which covers a segment of the road with ramp tolls to collect from those who don't pass through the mainline toll).

[NJRoadfan]

ORT will likely solve most of the "free" sections on the GSP. Right now you can drive north from Exit 25 to Exit 50 without paying a toll! Even before the one-way conversion at the Great Egg Barrier, you had a free section from Exit 36 to 50. This is mostly due to the US-9 multiplex over the Mullica River needing to be free.

Closed ticket toll roads like the Turnpike can allow for those weird differentials. Exit 6 is a good example. Enter/Leaving the ticket system there is much more expensive than Exit 7 or 5 due to having to fund a river crossing. The real losers here are folks getting on/off at US-130/"Exit 6A".

[roadman65]

ORT will likely solve most of the "free" sections on the GSP. Right now you can drive north from Exit 25 to Exit 50 without paying a toll! Even before the one-way conversion at the Great Egg Barrier, you had a free section from Exit 36 to 50. This is mostly due to the US-9 multiplex over the Mullica River needing to be free.

Closed ticket toll roads like the Turnpike can allow for those weird differentials. Exit 6 is a good example. Enter/Leaving the ticket system there is much more expensive than Exit 7 or 5 due to having to fund a river crossing. The real losers here are folks getting on/off at US-130/"Exit 6A".

The 129-140 section can never be tolled. It was stated upon purchase from NJDOT that the NJHA ( present NJTA) has to forever keep the part from the NJ Turnpike to Route 22 from being tolled.

[lstone19]

The 129-140 section can never be tolled. It was stated upon purchase from NJDOT that the NJHA ( present NJTA) has to forever keep the part from the NJ Turnpike to Route 22 from being tolled.

I thought none of the segments that pre-existed the Parkway could ever be tolled. In addition to 129-140, that was the section around Toms River (80-83) and the former at-grade section around Cape May Court House.

[roadman65]

The 129-140 section can never be tolled. It was stated upon purchase from NJDOT that the NJHA ( present NJTA) has to forever keep the part from the NJ Turnpike to Route 22 from being tolled.

I thought none of the segments that pre-existed the Parkway could ever be tolled. In addition to 129-140, that was the section around Toms River (80-83) and the former at-grade section around Cape May Court House.

Them too. Those were first built and paid forand were intended as a free road even after toll bonds financed the rest.

[Alps]

I imagine that a lot of the gaps on the Parkway can be closed simply by reverting to two-way tolling on the mainline.

I'll be curious to find out what the plan is for Parkway AET, given all of the exits that have tolling along one or more ramps (and not necessarily all ramps). There are a few different ways it could go, at least in my mind. Turnpike I think is straightforward but we will find out when it comes time to announce it, since we saw a couple of changes with MassPike and NY Thruway going AET so it's possible NJ will do the same. No way to know yet!

[lstone19]

Them too. Those were first built and paid forand were intended as a free road even after toll bonds financed the rest.

And speaking of the 129-140 segment, a long, long time ago, I had a summer job with NJDOT where I was assigned to one of the maintenance sections to assist the regular guys as they took vacation. I was assigned to the maintenance yard in Clark on the GSP that took care of 129-140 since that was NJDOT back then. The coolest part was getting to ride up and down it in one the few trucks permitted to use it.

[Rothman]

I just remember how the GSP was multicolored in the Rand McNally Road Atlas to show the free and toll sections...

[SignBridge]

My current Rand McNally roadmap of the NY Metro area still has the GS Parkway shown in a different color for the free section.

[jeffandnicole]

The 129-140 section can never be tolled. It was stated upon purchase from NJDOT that the NJHA ( present NJTA) has to forever keep the part from the NJ Turnpike to Route 22 from being tolled.

I thought none of the segments that pre-existed the Parkway could ever be tolled. In addition to 129-140, that was the section around Toms River (80-83) and the former at-grade section around Cape May Court House.

I don't think the area around Exits 9, 10 & 11 couldn't be tolled, but rather, Cape May County demanded that the new ramps remain free.  The NJTA said, fine, but we're not rushing to spend the money if we can't recoup it. 

This recollection would be from the late 1990s or early 2000s so finding this source on the internet is impossible. It's a distant memory now, but during the early 2000's it was a frustrating wait to finally get this section of road worked on to remove the lights.

[roadman65]

Will the free I-95 in Bergen County remain so? I wasn't around when the NJTA bought the freeway from NJDOT, so I don't know the arrangement made for future tolling. However New York does it on MTA bridges, as the toll crossings pay for the free ones. Like the Triborough pays for the Queensboro.

Between NJ and PA the DRJTBC has the toll bridges pay for the free ones as well. The Route 179 Bridge at Lambertville , NJ and New Hope, PA is free to its user but funded from the other toll bridges. Ditto for the Trenton Makes Bridge as it's free but subsidized from the toll crossings. The Scudders Falls Bridge was free but the new crossing didn't have the other crossings pick up the tab though. It's now tolled.

[vdeane]

However New York does it on MTA bridges, as the toll crossings pay for the free ones. Like the Triborough pays for the Queensboro.

The Triboro doesn't pay for the Queensboro.  It does, however, help subsidize the transit system.  The free bridges are maintained by the City itself, not the MTA.

[roadman65]

However New York does it on MTA bridges, as the toll crossings pay for the free ones. Like the Triborough pays for the Queensboro.

The Triboro doesn't pay for the Queensboro.  It does, however, help subsidize the transit system.  The free bridges are maintained by the City itself, not the MTA.

My bad.

I tried to locate the article that said that the MTA operates the free bridges, but I can't find it. According to Wiki, you're right, but then again if it was Wiki the first time, it's understandable that a road troll could have had a sense of humor or another person didn't fact check himself the first time.

Well MTA doesn't acknowledge they operate the freebie crossings.
https://new.mta.info/agency/bridges-and-tunnels
It probably was someone misinformed or a practical joker posting that on Wiki.

[Rothman]

Boy, if the MTA is in charge of the free crossings, NYCDOT's got some 'splainin' to do with all the money NYSDOT's thrown at them for maintenance of them...

[vdeane]

However New York does it on MTA bridges, as the toll crossings pay for the free ones. Like the Triborough pays for the Queensboro.

The Triboro doesn't pay for the Queensboro.  It does, however, help subsidize the transit system.  The free bridges are maintained by the City itself, not the MTA.

My bad.

I tried to locate the article that said that the MTA operates the free bridges, but I can't find it. According to Wiki, you're right, but then again if it was Wiki the first time, it's understandable that a road troll could have had a sense of humor or another person didn't fact check himself the first time.

Well MTA doesn't acknowledge they operate the freebie crossings.
https://new.mta.info/agency/bridges-and-tunnels
It probably was someone misinformed or a practical joker posting that on Wiki.

It might have something to do with the Move NY Fair plan, which was very similar to the current congestion pricing plan, with the big difference being that there would have been no exemptions for FDR Drive or West Street, and the free East River bridges would have become true toll bridges.

[bzakharin]

Traveling east on the ACE there is a toll getting off at Exit 9 but no toll if you stay on and get off at Exit 7.

Exit 9 is the only exit that charges tolls in both directions. I believe it has something to do with the Atlantic City Airport, so I don't expect that to change. Exit 7 functionally divides the ACE into two tolled sections. You will always pay exactly one toll west of exit 7 and exactly one toll east of exit 7 (except the afore-mentioned exit 9) no matter where you enter or exit. The toll amount you pay will vary, however. I'm not sure why they went with this system instead of a ticketing one which they are attempting to emulate given that there are tollbooths at every ramp anyway.

[Alps]

Traveling east on the ACE there is a toll getting off at Exit 9 but no toll if you stay on and get off at Exit 7.

Exit 9 is the only exit that charges tolls in both directions. I believe it has something to do with the Atlantic City Airport, so I don't expect that to change. Exit 7 functionally divides the ACE into two tolled sections. You will always pay exactly one toll west of exit 7 and exactly one toll east of exit 7 (except the afore-mentioned exit 9) no matter where you enter or exit. The toll amount you pay will vary, however. I'm not sure why they went with this system instead of a ticketing one which they are attempting to emulate given that there are tollbooths at every ramp anyway.

Doesn't matter because ACE has already announced they're going All Electronic, so once that happens it'll be like normal.

[roadman65]

Traveling east on the ACE there is a toll getting off at Exit 9 but no toll if you stay on and get off at Exit 7.

Exit 9 is the only exit that charges tolls in both directions. I believe it has something to do with the Atlantic City Airport, so I don't expect that to change. Exit 7 functionally divides the ACE into two tolled sections. You will always pay exactly one toll west of exit 7 and exactly one toll east of exit 7 (except the afore-mentioned exit 9) no matter where you enter or exit. The toll amount you pay will vary, however. I'm not sure why they went with this system instead of a ticketing one which they are attempting to emulate given that there are tollbooths at every ramp anyway.

You're right. Exit 7 is like Exit 100 on the Parkway. You pay the Asbury toll north of it or go one exit south at Wall and pay the Exit 98 toll.

Then Exit 4 coming north on the Parkway charges a ramp toll but go north to the next following exit and no toll or any other exit before the mainline toll. I guess it's to sock the ferry travelers to The Wildwoods as it's a popular beach destination to get extra $$. However you can shunpike it by staying on US 9 and turn right at Route 47. That doesn't make sense.

[jeffandnicole]

Traveling east on the ACE there is a toll getting off at Exit 9 but no toll if you stay on and get off at Exit 7.

Exit 9 is the only exit that charges tolls in both directions. I believe it has something to do with the Atlantic City Airport, so I don't expect that to change. Exit 7 functionally divides the ACE into two tolled sections. You will always pay exactly one toll west of exit 7 and exactly one toll east of exit 7 (except the afore-mentioned exit 9) no matter where you enter or exit. The toll amount you pay will vary, however. I'm not sure why they went with this system instead of a ticketing one which they are attempting to emulate given that there are tollbooths at every ramp anyway.

You're right. Exit 7 is like Exit 100 on the Parkway. You pay the Asbury toll north of it or go one exit south at Wall and pay the Exit 98 toll.

Then Exit 4 coming north on the Parkway charges a ramp toll but go north to the next following exit and no toll or any other exit before the mainline toll. I guess it's to sock the ferry travelers to The Wildwoods as it's a popular beach destination to get extra $$. However you can shunpike it by staying on US 9 and turn right at Route 47. That doesn't make sense.

The history of the Expressway's Interchange 9 is relatively unusual compared to the rest of the highway.

Originally a partial interchange, EB traffic had a free exit leaving the Expressway, and a free onramp to go westbound. 

In the mid-late 1980's, the EB interchange was reconfigured and a tolled ramp onto the ACX EB was added, and a tolled ramp exiting WB was added.  The previously existing movements remained free.

In the late 1990's, the free ramps were modified to be tolled ramps.  My only assumption is the SJTA was trying to add business to their AC Airport, and figured they'll try to tap into the revenue stream of people arriving for flights.  Most airlines that attempted scheduled flights were never tremendously successful at the airport, and ultimately low-budget Spirit became the only airline with regularly scheduled flights.

The Expressway has long wanted to modify the interchange again by adding higher-speed ramps, but I haven't heard much on that lately.

[ixnay]

Exit 4 coming north on the Parkway charges a ramp toll but go north to the next following exit and no toll or any other exit before the mainline toll. I guess it's to sock the ferry travelers to The Wildwoods as it's a popular beach destination to get extra $$. However you can shunpike it by staying on US 9 and turn right at Route 47. That doesn't make sense.

Exit 4's SB on ramp charges a toll too, probably for the same reason in reverse (soaking the Wildwoods-to-CMLF crowd, though NJ 47/US 9 shunpiking is available in this case too).  Talk about strategic location.