I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[Mr_Northside]

Cl94, those same rules must have applied to the New York Thruway Authority and the New Jersey Turnpike Authority but they built the interchanges anyway, and apparently at their expense, so what is the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission's excuse?

I think their excuse would still be that they didn't want to take on the expense.  Just because other agencies might have decided to pay for it themselves, doesn't mean the PTC felt they should. 
I wonder if/how quickly any of the interchanges might get built if the feds swooped in and paid 100% of the costs (It would certainly be interesting to see how that would play in Breezewood)

[SignBridge]

Some interesting points of reason have been raised here. Maybe I should have thought out my argument more thoroughly. Okay..... I can agree that the PTC would maybe gain as least as much toll revenue as they would lose with the I-95 interchange. BUT, that leaves the only possible reason for not building it was that they just stubbornly wouldn't spend the money. Well, shame on them.

Because it bugged the heck out of me the first time I ever drove from NYC to Philly planning to take the NJT to the Pennsy Pike and then south on I-95 into downtown Phila. and found it couldn't be done. Ended up taking Route-1 south into Center City instead. What a rude awakening that was. Who would have thought, two Interstates cross each other and there's no interchange.

I wouldn't compare this location to Breezewood or Bedford or Newburgh NY either, since it's easy enough to get off the Turnpike and then onto the Interstate a block down the road. At I-95 you have to go several miles down US-13.

[cl94]

Some interesting points of reason have been raised here. Maybe I should have thought out my argument more thoroughly. Okay..... I can agree that the PTC would maybe gain as least as much toll revenue as they would lose with the I-95 interchange. BUT, that leaves the only possible reason for not building it was that they just stubbornly wouldn't spend the money. Well, shame on them.

Because it bugged the heck out of me the first time I ever drove from NYC to Philly planning to take the NJT to the Pennsy Pike and then south on I-95 into downtown Phila. and found it couldn't be done. Ended up taking Route-1 south into Center City instead. What a rude awakening that was. Who would have thought, two Interstates cross each other and there's no interchange.

I wouldn't compare this location to Breezewood or Bedford or Newburgh NY either, since it's easy enough to get off the Turnpike and then onto the Interstate a block down the road. At I-95 you have to go several miles down US-13.

3.5 miles along PA 413 and US 13. Is it longer than most? Yeah, but certainly not the only one over a mile long. As I mentioned earlier, I-475 at the Ohio Turnpike is over a mile on surface streets. I-271 at the Ohio Turnpike requires a several miles on I-77, SR 8, and/or SR 303. The Ohio Turnpike has another bitch of a Breezewood at SR 11.

[NJRoadfan]

Its a rather annoying route. US-13 is usually clogged with traffic, and that left from PA-413 to the I-95 onramp can take awhile.

[SignBridge]

That's right! That's why those idiots at the PTC should have built the friggin' interchange long ago! And US-13 was under reconstruction this past year as well, adding to the problem.

[NJRoadfan]

They are working on US-13 AGAIN? I remember 10 years or so ago they were upgrading it to jug handles.

[noelbotevera]

US 13 is the new Ontario Highway 401. This time it's in the U.S.

[SignBridge]

Yes NJRoadfan, Route 13 is being repaved/rehabilitated and it was a mess back in July. I've been using that road maybe once a year since 1987 and I don't seem to remember it not having the jug-handles.

[NJRoadfan]

I'd have to look at my pictures, I recall the PA-413 intersection and general area being under construction for a while. They widened the roadway from US-13 to the I-95 interchange since it was only a dinky 2 lane road pressed into service as a Breezewood.

[jeffandnicole]

Some interesting points of reason have been raised here. Maybe I should have thought out my argument more thoroughly. Okay..... I can agree that the PTC would maybe gain as least as much toll revenue as they would lose with the I-95 interchange. BUT, that leaves the only possible reason for not building it was that they just stubbornly wouldn't spend the money. Well, shame on them.

Because it bugged the heck out of me the first time I ever drove from NYC to Philly planning to take the NJT to the Pennsy Pike and then south on I-95 into downtown Phila. and found it couldn't be done. Ended up taking Route-1 south into Center City instead. What a rude awakening that was. Who would have thought, two Interstates cross each other and there's no interchange.

I wouldn't compare this location to Breezewood or Bedford or Newburgh NY either, since it's easy enough to get off the Turnpike and then onto the Interstate a block down the road. At I-95 you have to go several miles down US-13.

I'm amazed you been on these forums as long as you have and didn't realize you couldn't connect directly between the PA Turnpike & 95!  This connection is probably the second-most talked about "non-interchange" in Pennsylvania (with the first being Breezewood).

[Alps]

US 13 is the new Ontario Highway 401. This time it's in the U.S.

If that were the case, we wouldn't have this problem because I-95 would go the way it's supposed to, straight up through Trenton.

[Gnutella]

The New Jersey Turnpike Authority and their fear of revenue loss played a major role in getting I-95 canceled past Trenton, but never mind that. Let's just shit all over the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission for not building a $1B+ interchange fast enough for our liking. For that matter, let's accuse them of dragging their feet because they decided to relocate a toll plaza and widen a seven-mile segment of the existing Turnpike first. At least the fucking interchange is being built, regardless of the pace, and regardless of whether or not it's against the will of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission. So which turnpike agency is really the stubborn one here, the one that's building the interchange anyway, or the one that helped create a big fucking gap in the Interstate Highway System in the first place?

[jeffandnicole]

The New Jersey Turnpike Authority and their fear of revenue loss played a major role in getting I-95 canceled past Trenton, but never mind that. Let's just shit all over the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission for not building a $1B+ interchange fast enough for our liking. For that matter, let's accuse them of dragging their feet because they decided to relocate a toll plaza and widen a seven-mile segment of the existing Turnpike first. At least the fucking interchange is being built, regardless of the pace, and regardless of whether or not it's against the will of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission. So which turnpike agency is really the stubborn one here, the one that's building the interchange anyway, or the one that helped create a big fucking gap in the Interstate Highway System in the first place?

Question...how did 295 get built, which parallels the Turnpike?  Wouldn't the Turnpike Authority be worried it would take traffic away from the Turnpike?

Question...because 95 was cancelled, how much money has been spent by the NJ Turnpike Authority, putting them into quite a bit of debt, in order to keep up with traffic volumes?

Question...if 95 in NJ was built, what would've happened with 95 in PA?  It surely couldn't handle all that additional traffic with just 2 or 3 lanes each direction on 95 much of its length, especially being the congestion 95 experiences today...without that additional traffic.

Also, you seem to be a little short-sighted on the construction projects of the PA Turnpike.  They have about a dozen projects going on at this very moment.  And there are always projects going on...some needed...some seemingly done just to keep people working (I point out the multiple median barriers that have been built over the years as some very wasteful spending).  Regardless if the project is an underused highway near Pittsburgh or pavement repair on the NE Extension, that's all PA Turnpike revenue that's being spent.

And yes, the PA Turnpike has dragged their feet.  They stated the interchange would be built by now. 

Besides, the issue you present was an issue back in the 70's and 80's.  Upwards of 2 generations later, it's time to move on.  There are literally hundreds of road/highway/bridge/tunnel projects that were never built around the country, and sometimes other states have to pick up the slack. 

[vdeane]

I would go so far as to say that that PTC should not have been allowed to construct so much as a millimeter of expressways in Pittsburgh before this interchange is fully completed.

[Mr_Northside]

Of course, is it right that all of the hate/blame/whatever is falling squarely on the PTC as opposed to PennDOT?  Doesn't it take two to tango, or something like that?

[NJRoadfan]

Don't forget Act 44 which turned the PA Turnpike into the state's piggy bank for funding road projects all over the place. It doesn't look so good when the NJ Turnpike Authority managed to complete the western hemisphere's largest public works project (the 6-9 widening) before the PA Turnpike got a single ramp built.

[bzakharin]

The New Jersey Turnpike Authority and their fear of revenue loss played a major role in getting I-95 canceled past Trenton, but never mind that. Let's just shit all over the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission for not building a $1B+ interchange fast enough for our liking. For that matter, let's accuse them of dragging their feet because they decided to relocate a toll plaza and widen a seven-mile segment of the existing Turnpike first. At least the fucking interchange is being built, regardless of the pace, and regardless of whether or not it's against the will of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission. So which turnpike agency is really the stubborn one here, the one that's building the interchange anyway, or the one that helped create a big fucking gap in the Interstate Highway System in the first place?

My understanding is that the version of I-95 that the NJTA helped kill was going to be entirely parallel to the Turnpike, not using any of it, and not the later plans for the Somerset Freeway to Exit 10, which was killed off by NIMBYs.

[Alps]

I would go so far as to say that that PTC should not have been allowed to construct so much as a millimeter of expressways in Pittsburgh before this interchange is fully completed.

You mean the 576 and 43 boondoggles?

[SignBridge]

Jeffandnicole, re: your earlier post that I should have known there was no 276/95 interchange. Sorry if you misunderstood my post. It was back in 1976 when I made that discovery, not recently as you thought I was saying. And this has been on my mind all those years since that first trip to Phila.

[roadman65]

Don't forget Act 44 which turned the PA Turnpike into the state's piggy bank for funding road projects all over the place. It doesn't look so good when the NJ Turnpike Authority managed to complete the western hemisphere's largest public works project (the 6-9 widening) before the PA Turnpike got a single ramp built.

That is a good one and FDOT should be ashamed of themselves with the I-4 Ultimate as well!  It is planned for six full years for only 21 miles of roadway with the NJT being over 30.  NJT workers had to deal with snow and sub freezing temperatures, while here in Florida we have warm weather year round with the coldest in Orlando is 27 degrees for one night during an Arctic Blast.

[mrsman]

I-95 was indeed signed along the CT Turnpike as E-W, Eastbound New Haven & Westbound New York between the NYS Line and New Haven, and then New Haven  And West, and alternatively Providence And East, and Rhode Island And East from New Haven and the RI State Line.  Some ramps even signed it with shields as EAST I-95 and WEST I-95, but most ramps did not have shields but the original blue entry guides.  I think the reassurence shields and the signs at the I-91 interchange did denote I-95 as N-S back in the original CT Tpk signing days.

Look at I-94 in IL and WI between Chicago and Milwaukee.  You travel North on Westbound I-94 to get to Milwaukee and travel South on Eastbound I-94 to get to Chicago for almost 80 miles.  They look at it as I-94 going between rural Montana to Port Huron, MI and not the regional heading between Chicago and Milwaukee which is a fraction of the whole routing.  Why does Michigan change I-69 from N-S to E-W  between Lansing and Port Huron for a shorter change in direction then that of I-94's N-S change in IL and WI, is a bigger mystery. 

Same in Florida with US 98 signed E-W in Martin and Palm Beach Counties when for well over 200 miles it is signed N-S in the Florida Peninsula, when in those two counties its near 90 miles.  You think that FDOT could have just kept US 98 signed N-S for that little stretch.  Also to add confusion is between Okeechobee and Sebring, US 98 does run more E-W than N-S, but is signed N-S for almost 55 miles between those two cities.  Then south of Okeechobee part of the E-W signing in Martin and Palm Beach Counties it runs N-S along the Eastern Shore of Lake Okeechobee concurrent with N-S signed US 441 and is signed E-W.

Then you have US 92 that runs N-S for close to 100 miles cosigned with US 17 from Lake Alfred to DeLand, but US 92 is signed E-W and if you pinpoint US 92's endpoints on a map and draw a straight line between them it is more SW to NE than E to W.

Then Texas is  doing dumb with signing US 281 and US 83 in the Rio Grande Valley as E-W when a lot more of those two routes runs actual N-S outside the valley.  In fact both US 83 and US 281 are Texas' longest N-S US routes, so those short stretches as E-W is not even worth it to confuse people with different headers.

IMO a freeway should absolutely maintain a national cardinal direction at all times, becuase there would be considerable cross-country traffic.  So I-94 is E/W despite the significant N/S section between Chi and Milwaukee.  That being said, because of the inherent confusion, every single entrance to this highway (especially the signed connection along surface streets to connect to I-90 toward O'Hare), must have control cities listed.

For surface street sections of US routes, you have the additional confusion of address numbers that probably follow the E/W standard of the city, since the street is E/W even though the highway itself is N/S throughout the state.  Case in point Ventura Blvd in the L.A. area used to be US 101 (N/S) before the freeway was constructed, but the address numbers follow E/W convention.  In cases like that, I'd still maintain a national standard, even though it makes less sense.

[mrsman]

US 101 to me would confuse the hell out of me where NB becomes EB, and then becomes SB at an unsigned point.  It should have really terminated at Port Angeles as their is a ferry there to Victoria, BS. The rest of the road to Olympia should have been a Washington State Route. 

Do most people traveling to Olympia actually stay on US 101 all the way or do they leave the route and cut across the peninsula on other WA designations?

This is a good question.  I'll post it on the NW board and see what people there think.

[Gnutella]

...you seem to be a little short-sighted on the construction projects of the PA Turnpike.  They have about a dozen projects going on at this very moment.  And there are always projects going on...some needed...some seemingly done just to keep people working (I point out the multiple median barriers that have been built over the years as some very wasteful spending).  Regardless if the project is an underused highway near Pittsburgh or pavement repair on the NE Extension, that's all PA Turnpike revenue that's being spent.

And yes, the PA Turnpike has dragged their feet.  They stated the interchange would be built by now.

First of all, I know exactly what's going on with construction on the Pennsylvania Turnpike: they're reconstructing, widening and modernizing all 360 goddamn miles of it, plus another 30 miles of the Northeast Extension. And it's necessary because much of the highway is 75 goddamn years old, and the parts that aren't have too much goddamn traffic to only have four lanes now. Gee, no wonder the I-95 interchange is taking longer than you'd prefer: the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission has a shitload of other expensive and time-consuming things to do as well, and nearly twice as many miles of highway to do them on as The Almighty New Jersey Turnpike Authority (*genuflect*) does.



Holy shit, look at all that work being done and resources being spread out! Reconstruction reconstruction reconstruction bridge replacement reconstruction reconstruction reconstruction tunnel replacement reconstruction reconstruction reconstruction bridge replacement reconstruction reconstruction reconstruction new interchange reconstruction reconstruction reconstruction...

Just...wow.

I would go so far as to say that that PTC should not have been allowed to construct so much as a millimeter of expressways in Pittsburgh before this interchange is fully completed.

You mean the 576 and 43 boondoggles?

Never mind that a) neither highway connects to Interstates on both ends yet, thereby reducing their use until the connections are made; b) the commercial real estate market in the area of Pittsburgh International Airport has become hot ever since the first tiny leg of the South Beltway opened, and in spite of the airport being de-hubbed, no less; c) I-376 needs all the traffic relief it can get, or d) there's a shitload of abandoned brownfields up and down the Monongahela River Valley that haven't been redeveloped because the road infrastructure in the area is piss-poor and can't even handle large trucks.

Seriously, has anybody bitching about any of this shit ever even been to the Monongahela River Valley? It's connected by a bunch of fucking two-lane back roads. And east/west mobility across the valley between Pittsburgh and I-70 is especially bad. Canonsburg and McKeesport are 18 miles apart as the crow flies, but it's literally impossible to get from one to the other in less than 45 minutes. Half the time you need an hour or more. It's a complete pain in the ass to get anywhere else from the Monongahela River Valley, or to there from anywhere else, and there's literally no chance of any substantial reinvestment in the valley without serious upgrades to the road infrastructure there.

So go ahead and throw an entire quadrant of the Pittsburgh area under the bus because you're pissed off that a fucking interchange at the other end of the state isn't being built fast enough for your taste. No, nothing petty about that at all.

[noelbotevera]

rage

Whoa, chill.

[Zeffy]

the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission has a shitload of other expensive and time-consuming things to do as well, and nearly twice as many miles of highway to do them on as The Almighty New Jersey Turnpike Authority (*genuflect*) does.

Considering New Jersey has probably 400% more traffic on the Turnpike versus Pennsylvania's, the NJTA does a damn good job to ensure millions of people can be moved efficiently.

EDIT: And are you seriously comparing Pittsburgh to Philadelphia or New York City's metro area?