I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[ixnay]

I think it is kind of amusing that of the several elements in my prediction (first car through, classic car, Pennsylvania governor, NJ governor), only the presence of the NJ governor is being queried.

In any case, it is falsifiable--we will just have to see what happens when the current phase is finished.  One thing that might overturn it is the death of a worker in a construction-related accident.  In opening brochures I have seen, the names of workers thus killed have been printed at the front top, enclosed in a thick black border, ahead of the names of engineers, contractors, and politicians involved in the project.

Do you have links to those brochures (pdf's)?

ixnay

[Roadsguy]

Philadelphia probably only "allowed" I-95 to be built due to its deserved inferiority complex.  They wanted to have a reason for out of towners to come through their city. They stopped other freeways from being built, viz. The Crosstown Expressway, extrending the 309 Expressway to the Betsy Ross Bridge, and completing the Woodhaven Road Expressway, that would have helped local motorists.  They delayed the Vine Street Expressway for decades.  And then there is their I-676 "Breezewood".  They couldn't even build the simple ramp connecting the Penrose Avenue Bridge to 26th Stret.

There is not much credit deserved by that city.

309 was never supposed to end at the Betsy Ross Bridge, it was planned to meet the Girard Avenue Expressway right before I-95. The Pulaski Expressway would've extended from the bridge and gone out to end at the intersection of Cheltenham Ave, Crescentville Rd, and the Tookany Creek Pkwy. I did see one diagram of the interchange with I-95, however, that included "<-- To Conshohocken" for the Pulaski Expressway, so who knows what they were considering. I haven't seen a map indicating that, though.

And the Vine Street Expressway was built where it was because Vine Street was already a very wide boulevard, and the original section west of Broad Street was built in the late '50s. Building it one block north was not an option. Cost was also a huge factor, not just people fighting it. The original design visible here didn't take much more space than the current one and didn't take any of Franklin Square.

[PHLBOS]

^^Another cancelled expressway was the so-called 12-Mile Loop that would've ran from I-95 (at the Academy Road interchange) to I-476 (near or at the I-76/PA 23 interchange).  That road, in tandem with I-276/PA Turnpike, would've been similar to what I-295 in NJ is with respect to the NJ Turnpike (local free highway/toll road for through and/or long-distance traffic.

[ixnay]

Philadelphia probably only "allowed" I-95 to be built due to its deserved inferiority complex.

"Deserved"?  Why was it deserved?

ixnay

[ixnay]

I like following I-95 through Wilmington during off hours. It's about the same time and nicer scenery than 495.

When I was passing through Wilmington relatively frequently 20 years ago as part of summer weekend daytrips out of suburban Maryland, I never felt it made much sense to detour onto I-495.  Northbound it involved exiting twice versus once, and southbound it involved exiting once versus not at all.

Heading northbound, IMO rejoining 95 from 495 at the PA line feels like merging, not exiting.  Same southbound.

ixnay

[J N Winkler]

Do you have links to those brochures (pdf's)?

Regrettably, no.  I first became aware of that convention when I was visiting the main library at the University of Vienna and ran across an opening brochure for a length of Austrian Autobahn that was built in the late 1960's or early 1970's.  I vaguely remember photos of lakeside routing, so it might have been the A1 (which runs past the Attersee and Mondsee) or A2 (runs past the Wörthersee west of Klagenfurt).  I failed to take a camera copy.  I rather doubt it has been posted online, but if it has been and I find it, I will post again to supply a link.

[Chris19001]

I did see one diagram of the interchange with I-95, however, that included "<-- To Conshohocken" for the Pulaski Expressway, so who knows what they were considering.

That's an easy one.  The Pulaski was going to be the easternmost portion of the center city bypass or six mile loop.  Traffic wishing to go to points west on I-76 could use the Pulaski (PA-90) to the Roosevelt Expressway (US1) to Westbound I-76.  It was figured that traffic using the Betsy Ross may not want to go through center city's traffic issues in order to make points west.  You'd avoid the lower Delaware Expressway, lower Schuylkill expressway, and the Vine entirely.  Conshohocken was the first good sized town to the west after the city limits on I-76. 
I still think this would be a good idea, but that ship has sailed.

[Gnutella]

3: Without the Somerset or the original plan to the western spur, it is useless for most to go 295 or 95 north to NYC. Send traffic the simplest way from big city to big city.

Today I learned that Philadelphia is not a big city.

[roadman65]

^ These are all issues that have been discussed countless times in this thread and elsewhere.

Much of NY-DC traffic already uses the NJ Turnpike straight through to Delaware. So to a degree, renumbering it as I-95 wouldn't really change much.

As to the issue of why not route it via a straight NJ route, this is a debate you could have with any number of roads in any number of places. If I-95 is the route from NYC to Boston, why does it go the long way through Providence rather than the shorter route of I-95, I-91, I-84, and I-90? Because I-95 wasn't planned solely to be the NYC/BOS quick route, it was planned as the route connecting major cities of the East Coast–of which Providence is one. Likewise, I-95 in the Mid Atlantic isn't strictly the NYC/DC quick route, it's the NYC to Trenton to Philadelphia to Wilmington to Baltimore to Washington route.

I don't see how de-tolling the NJ Turnpike is even relevant considering the number of toll facilities that are integrated into Interstate system (PA Turnpike, NY Thruway, Masspike, etc.). In any event, I suspect any proposal to dissolve the NJTA would be a complete non-starter.

True.  Just like US 1, though to be the eastermost N-S odd numbered route, is not due to it being a major highway to go through three state capitals along its way.  The more logical would have had it go down US 130 from North Brunswick, NJ (as the ferry on US 9 opened in 1964), then cross into Delaware on the former Pennsville- New Castle Ferry and down US 13 to Chesapeake, VA where it would use US 17 all the way to Jacksonville and then pick up itself there.  Basically using the Coastal Highway that was designated using those three US routes in the day.

I-95 is not to be the quick route, which supports why Philly needs I-95 to complete the direct connection of all the major cities along the coast.  I am only guessing that Raleigh, NC and Columbia, SC were not considered big as I-95 followed US 301 mostly south of Petersburg, VA and not stayed with US 1.  However, Savanah, GA was big enough to have I-95 deviate from US 301 at Santee, SC and follow both US 15 and US 17 until it reaches US 1 again in Jacksonville.

[Beltway]

I did see one diagram of the interchange with I-95, however, that included "<-- To Conshohocken" for the Pulaski Expressway, so who knows what they were considering.

That's an easy one.  The Pulaski was going to be the easternmost portion of the center city bypass or six mile loop.  Traffic wishing to go to points west on I-76 could use the Pulaski (PA-90) to the Roosevelt Expressway (US1) to Westbound I-76.  It was figured that traffic using the Betsy Ross may not want to go through center city's traffic issues in order to make points west.  You'd avoid the lower Delaware Expressway, lower Schuylkill expressway, and the Vine entirely.  Conshohocken was the first good sized town to the west after the city limits on I-76. 
I still think this would be a good idea, but that ship has sailed.

The Pulaski Highway fell victim to PennDOT's massive budget cuts in the late 1970s.  That and the massive environmental impacts to the Tacony Creek valley and the residential neighborhoods along the route.

[NJRoadfan]

In the end it won't matter. The NJ Turnpike will be using Camden as their southbound control city after the interchange is complete anyway. With the exception of northbound I-95 in Delaware and the soon to be re-designated stub in NJ, Philadelphia doesn't appear as a control city anywhere else on the road, just a scant few mentions on mileage signs.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

So does this warrant a Philly Roadmeet?
Otherwise, let the haters hate.     

[Beltway]

So does this warrant a Philly Roadmeet?
Otherwise, let the haters hate.     

[... photo snipped ...]

As I have said before, Philadelphians in general seem to have a love-hate relationship with their city.

[jeffandnicole]

So does this warrant a Philly Roadmeet?
Otherwise, let the haters hate.     

[... photo snipped ...]

As I have said before, Philadelphians in general seem to have a love-hate relationship with their city.

I want to say that has more to do with a universal exodus from many cities into the suburbs around that time period.

[akotchi]

A couple of new photos from the I-95 Sign Change contract in New Jersey (taken today, 2/2/18).



(Top) I-295 no longer ends here.  Surprised the panel that was next to the pullthrough was not replaced with an advance guide sign for Princeton Pike.  The first one in this direction is the 1/4-mile ground panel downstream.

(Bottom) The old/new exit panel that I showed last week has been moved further away from the guide sign.  I guess enough of us spoke up . . .

Also noteworthy is that reference markers have been installed, continuing from the 67.6 marker that had been the last one for I-295 until now.  I did not go all the way to the bridge to see if they have been put in for the full length.  The smaller ones marking I-95 mileposts are still there, but some are not overly legible any more.

[jeffandnicole]

It was probably the NJDOT Supervisor for the project that told them to move the sign, as they are supposed to go out and check on the contractor's work.  Still, as shown in the second picture, there does tend to be a tendency for too much signage to be located too close together.  Even if it's all still visible, a driver is still trying to keep an eye on the road while keeping an eye out for any signage that they may need to take note of.

I would imagine the advanced sign will be replaced shortly.

[odditude]

I would imagine the advanced sign will be replaced shortly.

to clarify, the previous panel in that location was "BEGIN 95 SOUTH / Philadelphia" - ideally, a new advance sign for the Princeton Pike exits should be installed in that location.

[akotchi]

 ^^ . . . and, long ago, it probably was an advance sign for Princeton Pike.  In the photo, the two taller supports where the sign used to be may have supported an exit tab at that time.

[cpzilliacus]

I don't see how de-tolling the NJ Turnpike is even relevant considering the number of toll facilities that are integrated into Interstate system (PA Turnpike, NY Thruway, Masspike, etc.). In any event, I suspect any proposal to dissolve the NJTA would be a complete non-starter.

True.  Just like US 1, though to be the eastermost N-S odd numbered route, is not due to it being a major highway to go through three state capitals along its way.  The more logical would have had it go down US 130 from North Brunswick, NJ (as the ferry on US 9 opened in 1964), then cross into Delaware on the former Pennsville- New Castle Ferry and down US 13 to Chesapeake, VA where it would use US 17 all the way to Jacksonville and then pick up itself there.  Basically using the Coastal Highway that was designated using those three US routes in the day.

U.S. 1 was routed the way that it runs to this day between Jacksonville, Florida and Trenton, New Jersey so that it would roughly follow the Fall Line (Wikipedia calls it the Atlantic Seaboard fall line).

[Alps]

I don't see how de-tolling the NJ Turnpike is even relevant considering the number of toll facilities that are integrated into Interstate system (PA Turnpike, NY Thruway, Masspike, etc.). In any event, I suspect any proposal to dissolve the NJTA would be a complete non-starter.

True.  Just like US 1, though to be the eastermost N-S odd numbered route, is not due to it being a major highway to go through three state capitals along its way.  The more logical would have had it go down US 130 from North Brunswick, NJ (as the ferry on US 9 opened in 1964), then cross into Delaware on the former Pennsville- New Castle Ferry and down US 13 to Chesapeake, VA where it would use US 17 all the way to Jacksonville and then pick up itself there.  Basically using the Coastal Highway that was designated using those three US routes in the day.

U.S. 1 was routed the way that it runs to this day between Jacksonville, Florida and Trenton, New Jersey so that it would roughly follow the Fall Line (Wikipedia calls it the Atlantic Seaboard fall line).

Not to get too far afield, but then north of Trenton it should take NJ 31 to US 202 to Bangor...

[ixnay]

Let us know when the "95 SOUTH/Penna" sign at the Federal City Road exit is replaced.  (or has it?)  It was still there in Sept. 2017.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2872034,-74.7560982,3a,75y,239.68h,73.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLTV8YPxp5qiC1r6kYbWTIg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

ixnay

[roadman65]

^^ . . . and, long ago, it probably was an advance sign for Princeton Pike.  In the photo, the two taller supports where the sign used to be may have supported an exit tab at that time.

As long as I remember it always was the way it was.  Yes there was an exit tab that was blank as when it first was installed someone in NJDOT did intend for it to be an advanced sign for Princeton Pike.

BTW, I am surprised it shows I-295 going NB from US 1 and not WB.

[jeffandnicole]

^^ . . . and, long ago, it probably was an advance sign for Princeton Pike.  In the photo, the two taller supports where the sign used to be may have supported an exit tab at that time.

As long as I remember it always was the way it was.  Yes there was an exit tab that was blank as when it first was installed someone in NJDOT did intend for it to be an advanced sign for Princeton Pike.

BTW, I am surprised it shows I-295 going NB from US 1 and not WB.

It's 295 North throughout NJ.  Only at the NJ/PA State Line will it change from 295 North to 295 West.

[bzakharin]

I'm surprised they're not including control cities on the new pullthrus. I know that 295 often omits them in general, but this is a chance to fix that.

[MASTERNC]

Something is going on in the next week or two on I-95 North in the interchange area.  Saw a VMS yesterday warning the road will be closed overnight for several nights in a row between PA 413 and US 1 Business.