Fads in highway construction

[SquonkHunter]

• Bridge beams made from weathering steel, better known by the brand name COR-TEN.  I thought I heard that the problem was when salt was applied to the overhead road and leaked down on the structural steel.

These type beams are currently included in the new Manor Expressway (Toll 290) in Austin, TX as well as on other toll projects around this area. Salt is not really a great concern down here. 

[froggie]

Back on-topic, I feel like the cloverleaf was one of the biggest fads in construction. Obviously, they're the best fit for a freeway-to-freeway junction in a rural area, but there used to be a lot of freeway-to-surface-street cloverleaves in urban and suburban areas (I-55 in Chicagoland, I-80 in Chicagoland before upgrades, I-74 in Peoria before 2006ish)-- Okay, this may have just been an Illinois thing, but it sure was popular.

Not just an Illinois thing...several other areas embraced the cloverleaf back in the early Interstate days.  The Twin Cities (MN) still have several (though oddly absent from both I-494/MN 55 and I-694/MN 5), including a new one at US 169/MN 610, another new one further south at I-35/US 14, and two more proposed at I-90/US 52 and at US 52/Dakota CSAH 42.  Virginia also has several, as does the DC-Baltimore corridor of Maryland.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm not sure what you mean by this--most exit direction signs do still have arrows pointing upward and diagonally to the right.

It's something more like this:  http://goo.gl/maps/PmZjR

He's really referring to overhead signs on the highway approaching an exit, but this GSV what I could quickly find...and fortunate enough to have both examples in one shot.

The left sign has the arrow facing up and to the right.  The one on the right has the arrow facing down and to the right.

Personally, I always though this was more of a regional/state DOT preference.  Usually the up arrow is what we've used here on the east coast, although occasionally you'll find the down arrow here and there (when the SPUI at 33/133/NJ Turnpike was getting built, they used a down facing arrow for one of the ramps, which is extremely rare in NJ: http://goo.gl/maps/TydlE.  Not sure if it still exists there).

[mgk920]

Trapezoidal box-beams are very much alive and well - WisDOT is actively using them in several current projects (ie, US(I)-41 upgrades in the Green Bay area, the rebuilt Marquette interchange, etc).

I agree, interstate and compatible highway cloverleaf interchanges, especially those involving surface crossroads, were too much of a 'fad' thing in the early interstate days and WisDOT has been actively removing them over the past few decades.  There are only a few that are being and will likely continue to be maintained/continued, including I-43/WI 23 (Sheboygan), US 53/WI 29 in the Eau Claire area and I-43/US 12 at Elkhorn.  I-39/90//43 at Beloit is currently in the planning process for replacement with a free-flow interchange and I am expecting the cloverleaf at I-94/US 53 in Eau Claire to be dumped within my lifetime.

A recent fad here in Wisconsin was setting lane-line reflectors into the surfaces of major highways (1990s, mainly).  They did not live long in real world Wisconsin conditions.

Another fairly recent and, as it turned out, highly misguided fad here in Wisconsin, and one that WisDOT and other more local agencies are STILL paying dearly for, was to not use reinforcing steel at saw-line joints in concrete paving (1970s and 1980s, mainly), this on the theory that there would be an 'aggregate lock' between the squares.  Ever since, there have been ongoing projects statewide to retrofit dowel bars into those joints.

Mike

[jbnv]

Painting the highway symbol on the pavement has definitely caught on in Louisiana and Texas.

Urban cloverleafs: There are some on Airline Highway in Baton Rouge.

I certainly hope that Clearview is not a fad, as I prefer the look of Clearview signs over traditional Gothic. I'd actually prefer to see the FHWA issue guidelines rather than mandates on typefaces for signage.

[Pete from Boston]

Painting the highway symbol on the pavement has definitely caught on in Louisiana and Texas.

Urban cloverleafs: There are some on Airline Highway in Baton Rouge.

I certainly hope that Clearview is not a fad, as I prefer the look of Clearview signs over traditional Gothic. I'd actually prefer to see the FHWA issue guidelines rather than mandates on typefaces for signage.

The only place I've seen the symbol on the pavement is on 87/287 South/East where they split in Elmsford, NY (symbols painted in color, no less). 

[jbnv]

The only place I've seen the symbol on the pavement is on 87/287 South/East where they split in Elmsford, NY (symbols painted in color, no less).

I doubt you'll see them much in places that get a lot of snow. 

[jeffandnicole]

Even place that get a lot of snow have clear roads 360 days out of the year.  It's the rare snowstorm that leaves roads snowcovered more than a day.

[vdeane]

Painting the highway symbol on the pavement has definitely caught on in Louisiana and Texas.

Urban cloverleafs: There are some on Airline Highway in Baton Rouge.

I certainly hope that Clearview is not a fad, as I prefer the look of Clearview signs over traditional Gothic. I'd actually prefer to see the FHWA issue guidelines rather than mandates on typefaces for signage.

The only place I've seen the symbol on the pavement is on 87/287 South/East where they split in Elmsford, NY (symbols painted in color, no less). 

Not the only place: http://goo.gl/maps/QHnS7

[Zeffy]

Not the only place: http://goo.gl/maps/QHnS7

I don't blame them - look at how small the shields are on the BGSes further ahead! Those look like 24" shields, which are wayyyy to small for those roads.

[1995hoo]

Painting the highway symbol on the pavement has definitely caught on in Louisiana and Texas.

Urban cloverleafs: There are some on Airline Highway in Baton Rouge.

I certainly hope that Clearview is not a fad, as I prefer the look of Clearview signs over traditional Gothic. I'd actually prefer to see the FHWA issue guidelines rather than mandates on typefaces for signage.

The only place I've seen the symbol on the pavement is on 87/287 South/East where they split in Elmsford, NY (symbols painted in color, no less). 

Not the only place: http://goo.gl/maps/QHnS7

Here are some on an arterial street not far from where I live (satellite view easier to see than Street View due to a truck obstructing the latter):
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7902445,-77.1367528,107m/data=!3m1!1e3

The District of Columbia DOT recently installed some on the inbound 14th Street Bridge (I-395/US-1 concurrency). They're not on Google or Bing Maps yet, so here's a capture from one of my dashcam videos. I find the use of "SPLIT" for the option lane to be interesting (completely accurate, of course, just interesting).

[PHLBOS]

One fad in highway signage that appears to be dying out is the diagrammatic BGS.  Most new installations of such presently are replacements/updates to existing diagrammatic BGS'.

[Zeffy]

One fad in highway signage that appears to be dying out is the diagramatic BGS.  Most new installations of such presently are replacements/updates to existing diagramatic BGS'.

I thought OAPL signs effectively replaced diagrammatic signs?

[PHLBOS]

I thought OAPL signs effectively replaced diagrammatic signs?

Diagrammatric BGS' are still listed & detailed in the latest MUTCD; plus, not all diagrammatic applications can be directly replaced w/OAPLs.

As mentioned earlier, and shown on other threads, the only diagrammatic BGS' being erected today (MA being one state I know that does such) are direct replacements for older diagrammatic BGS'.

[Revive 755]

^ There was a new one added in on NB I-55/EBI-70 for IL 203 in East St. Louis not that long ago.

[Zeffy]

^ There was a new one added in on NB I-55/EBI-70 for IL 203 in East St. Louis not that long ago.

And that is a sign that gets no quarrel from me for using Clearview, since it was used properly.

As mentioned earlier, and shown on other threads, the only diagrammatic BGS' being erected today (MA being one state I know that does such) are direct replacements for older diagrammatic BGS'.

True, but the MUTCD sort of hints that OAPLs are better in this paragraph:

Support:
01 Diagrammatic guide signs (see Figure 2E-7) are guide signs that show a simplified graphic view of the exit
arrangement in relationship to the main highway. While the use of such guide signs might be helpful for the
purpose of conveying relative direction of each movement, Diagrammatic guide signs have been shown to be less
effective than conventional or Overhead Arrow-per-Lane guide signs at conveying the destination or direction(s)
that each approach lane serves, regardless of whether dedicated or option lanes are present.

Not saying you are wrong, but it seems like diagrammatics aren't as useful as conventional methods (or OAPL signs).

[Bitmapped]

Even place that get a lot of snow have clear roads 360 days out of the year.  It's the rare snowstorm that leaves roads snowcovered more than a day.

True, but snow plows tend to tear up pavement markings, especially large ones like route shields.

[realjd]

One fad in highway signage that appears to be dying out is the diagramatic BGS.  Most new installations of such presently are replacements/updates to existing diagramatic BGS'.

I thought OAPL signs effectively replaced diagrammatic signs?

Diagrammatic signs are one of the few ones that I actually hate. Having to count little black lane dashes at speed is stupid. OPAL sings are much clearer.

[Laura]

Back on-topic, I feel like the cloverleaf was one of the biggest fads in construction. Obviously, they're the best fit for a freeway-to-freeway junction in a rural area, but there used to be a lot of freeway-to-surface-street cloverleaves in urban and suburban areas (I-55 in Chicagoland, I-80 in Chicagoland before upgrades, I-74 in Peoria before 2006ish)-- Okay, this may have just been an Illinois thing, but it sure was popular.

Not just an Illinois thing...several other areas embraced the cloverleaf back in the early Interstate days.  The Twin Cities (MN) still have several (though oddly absent from both I-494/MN 55 and I-694/MN 5), including a new one at US 169/MN 610, another new one further south at I-35/US 14, and two more proposed at I-90/US 52 and at US 52/Dakota CSAH 42.  Virginia also has several, as does the DC-Baltimore corridor of Maryland.

Yep. They were also frequent on I-695 around Baltimore. They are slowly being converted from full cloverleafs to partial cloverleafs (removing the leafs from the street to freeway connections).


iPhone

[froggie]

True, but snow plows tend to tear up pavement markings, especially large ones like route shields.

Thermoplast markings (which most southern states tend to use), yes.  Paint, no.

[cpzilliacus]

• Fluorescent street lighting.  This was popular in the late-60s/early-70s.  The fixtures had a long, angled head.  I suspect that these were popular because they were "cool" looking, at least at the time.

At one point, the entire illuminated parts of Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway (I-895 today) had fluorescent lighting, and I believe that the fluorescent tubes dated back to when the crossing and its approach roads were opened in 1957. 

IMO, these rated extremely high in terms of "cool" factor, and they were certainly distinctive (I do not recall ever seeing any other public road in the state with such lighting).  Someone who knows better than I suggested the luminaries were Westinghouse Whiteways.

Sadly, MdTA replaced them with much more conventional-looking lighting in the late 1970's.

[Pete from Boston]

• Fluorescent street lighting.  This was popular in the late-60s/early-70s.  The fixtures had a long, angled head.  I suspect that these were popular because they were "cool" looking, at least at the time.

At one point, the entire illuminated parts of Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway (I-895 today) had fluorescent lighting, and I believe that the fluorescent tubes dated back to when the crossing and its approach roads were opened in 1957. 

IMO, these rated extremely high in terms of "cool" factor, and they were certainly distinctive (I do not recall ever seeing any other public road in the state with such lighting).  Someone who knows better than I suggested the luminaries were Westinghouse Whiteways.

Sadly, MdTA replaced them with much more conventional-looking lighting in the late 1970's.

New York (the city) had fluorescent bulbs under yellow lenses on the TBTA bridges at least into the 80s.  They were stark and very era-specific.  I recall the same on the Mass Pike Extension in the early 90s, though I can't remember if it lasted until the c.2000 light replacement there.

[bugo]

Button copy was undeniably a fad.

There are shields on pavement on the IDL in downtown Tulsa.  Here is a US 75 shield on northbound 75/eastbound I-244 approaching the IDL:



That hamburger design is the worst design since the Death Diamond or Cherokee Curve.

Oklahoma is still building cloverleafs, such as at the Creek Turnpike/Muskogee Turnpike.  They're obsolete but they have been built in the last 15 years.

[hbelkins]

Cloverleafs aren't really obsolete if there aren't major traffic volumes and/or weaving problems. The cloverleaf at intersection of the Western Kentucky and Natcher parkways works just fine. The one at I-64 and I-265 in Louisville, however...

(I think that's on schedule to be rebuilt.)

[Ned Weasel]

Oklahoma is still building cloverleafs, such as at the Creek Turnpike/Muskogee Turnpike.  They're obsolete but they have been built in the last 15 years.

Cloverleafs aren't really obsolete if there aren't major traffic volumes and/or weaving problems. The cloverleaf at intersection of the Western Kentucky and Natcher parkways works just fine. The one at I-64 and I-265 in Louisville, however...

(I think that's on schedule to be rebuilt.)

I don't see a problem with new cloverleafs as long as they meet the following two criteria:

(1) If either road is a freeway, C/D lanes are used to separate weaving movements from the freeway mainline.
(2) None of the left-turn movements have high enough traffic volumes to warrant flyover ramps.

The Creek Turnpike and Muskogee Turnpike cloverleaf meets #1, and, without looking up the data, it doesn't look like a place where #2 would be an issue.