Two turns for the same movement?

[hbelkins]

https://goo.gl/maps/OzjT4

This is northbound US 119 in West Virginia. There is a ramp that turns to the right to carry traffic to I-64.

Then, there is a left turn that also carries traffic to that same ramp. This results in two turns for the same traffic movement.

Why is this done this way? SP Cook, any ideas?

And does this setup, or something similar, exist anywhere else?

[agentsteel53]

the ramp effectively bypasses the signal for continuing 119 northbound traffic.  I bet it was built later as 119 traffic increased, as both the ramp and the left turn are the continuation of 119.

that's gotta be one of the shortest US-interstate multiplexes out there.  one bridge and done.

[PHLBOS]

And does this setup, or something similar, exist anywhere else?

MA 16 West has two ramps to US 1 South in Chelsea, MA: a cloverleaf ramp at the main interchange and a left-lane ramp further west.  The latter's geared towards truck traffic.

[agentsteel53]

at some point, Miramar Rd westbound was explicitly signed to take a left onto Nobel to access 805 south, and then later at the intersection a direct ramp was provided.  the ramp situation remains the same, but the sign for Nobel is gone as of 2-3 months ago. 

http://goo.gl/maps/uPJJT

[empirestate]

https://goo.gl/maps/OzjT4

This is northbound US 119 in West Virginia. There is a ramp that turns to the right to carry traffic to I-64.

Then, there is a left turn that also carries traffic to that same ramp. This results in two turns for the same traffic movement.

Why is this done this way? SP Cook, any ideas?

And does this setup, or something similar, exist anywhere else?

Oh sure, this is very common. The left turn ramp serves traffic coming from Cantley Dr, which can't access the direct ramp. You'll also sometimes find pairs of ramps that connect to different sides of the destination roadway, so that traffic can make either an upcoming left or right turn.

[1995hoo]

The interchange of I-66 and I-495 in Virginia used to have two ramps connecting I-495's Inner Loop to westbound I-66. One was a left-side exit that was left over from when I-66 ended at I-495 prior to December 1982. The other was a right-side loop ramp built later in part to attempt to alleviate the problem of traffic entering from the US-50 interchange (located at most one mile to the south) bombing across four lanes to exit on the left. Didn't really work, though; the right-side exit was under-used by comparison in part because using it often required people to sit longer in very slow traffic, so people continued forcing their way across all four lanes.

There is still a left-side ramp and a right-side ramp, but it's not the same situation anymore because the left-side ramp serves the HO/T lanes and thus cannot be accessed by general-purpose traffic.



An intersection where multiple turns currently exist is the intersection of Van Dorn Street and Eisenhower Avenue in Alexandria, Virginia. Traffic from southbound Van Dorn can turn left at a green arrow onto eastbound Eisenhower or can use a loop-around ramp to the right a short distance earlier; similarly, traffic from eastbound Eisenhower heading to southbound Van Dorn can go left at an arrow or use the road leading to the other side of the ramp. The vast majority of people go through the light instead of using the ramp. The downside of all this is that allowing the left turns reduces the green time for northbound Van Dorn, which often backs up. There has been talk of eliminating the left turns, but the City of Alexandria refuses to consider it.

Map here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8005418,-77.1335705,18z

[Mr. Matté]

Near the northern end of US 29 at I-70 in Maryland, there is a similar configuration with a loop ramp and a left-turn accomplishing the NB-WB movement. https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.296563,-76.825225&spn=0.00827,0.016512&t=h&z=17 I know there was a discussion here about this interchange and it pretty much boiled down to adding extra ways of making the same movement.

One other example from my area is near the Princeton Plasma Physics Lab: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.351303,-74.611105&spn=0.008144,0.016512&t=k&z=17 If you're on Stellator Road, you have two options to getting on Route 1 NB: Take the first ramp, or go straight and be forced to take the second ramp. I don't know why the latter movement was allowed to stay while there were no offices being built on the parcels on this road.

[Laura]

I-66 EB to I-495 north has two ramps. I believe that they were reconfigured when the HOT/HOV lanes were added to 495 so that one is HOT/HOV access only now. Prior to that, general traffic could use either one.

Eta: 1995hoo beat me to it by five minutes, lol

iPhone

[1995hoo]

....

One other example from my area is near the Princeton Plasma Physics Lab: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.351303,-74.611105&spn=0.008144,0.016512&t=k&z=17 If you're on Stellator Road, you have two options to getting on Route 1 NB: Take the first ramp, or go straight and be forced to take the second ramp. I don't know why the latter movement was allowed to stay while there were no offices being built on the parcels on this road.

That looks like it's right across from Forrestal Village. I spent a month there in the summer of 2006 working a patent infringement trial in the federal court in Trenton. I remember thinking it was odd how the one entrance to the hotel complex used a jughandle and then immediately afterwards there was a spot where you could make an ordinary old left turn into the same general place. It seemed massively overbuilt for what was there at the time (it looks like there is now more development off to the west).

[jeffandnicole]

http://goo.gl/maps/45Er4

US 130 South in Brooklawn/Gloucester City.  From the left lane, you can turn left onto Market St. From the right lane, you can take the jughandle to Market St.

By zooming out, you can see the right two lanes are coming from the I-76 EB to US 130 SB ramp.  The left two lane are existing 130 South.  They don't want traffic on that ramp to have to cross two lanes to make a direct left...although if you're on 130 South and want to make a right, you are forced to cross the right two lanes.

That looks like it's right across from Forrestal Village...It seemed massively overbuilt for what was there at the time (it looks like there is now more development off to the west).

That pre-planning doesn't happen too often around here.  We take it when we can get it. 

[1995hoo]

Another I just remembered: Southern end of Ontario 416 at the interchange with 401 and the bridge to the USA. There are two routes from southbound 416 to westbound 401. I assume, but don't know, it's a legacy of the construction of 416 as an upgrade to a pre-existing route.

Oddly, my sat-nav wanted me to bear to the left and then take the ramp from Route 16 onto 401 instead of taking the more direct higher-speed ramp.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7562141,-75.4768398,15z

[2Co5_14]

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.890875,-84.461324&spn=0.007962,0.016512&sll=33.890768,-84.461957&sspn=0.007962,0.016512&oq=Cumberland,+MALL&t=h&z=17

I-75 south to I-285 east in the Cumberland area northwest of Atlanta.  The original ramp was the loop - the 2-lane flyover ramp was added later to accomodate the increased traffic.  The loop ramp was retained to provide access from Windy Hill Rd. to I-285 east, but is is also used by the I-75 mainline traffic to avoid backups on the flyover.

[Brandon]

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.866045,-87.619303&spn=0.004642,0.010568&t=h&z=17

Lake Shore Drive at Columbus and Roosevelt in downtown Chicago.  One can turn left onto Columbus from Nbd LSD to Roosevelt, or turn left at Roosevelt to Columbus.  One can also get onto Sbd LSD from either Columbus or Roosevelt using either Columbus or Roosevelt.

[empirestate]

Let's not forget the completely redundant ramps from NY 31 EB to I-490 EB. The ramps can both be reached from both South Ave. and Woodbury Blvd., and both feed directly to into I-490 from opposite sides. The only difference is that the right-hand ramp puts you in a position to take the Goodman St. exit from I-490, but there's no signage or anything to advise you of this.

The access to these ramps from the clockwise Inner Loop used to be similarly redundant, but was made less so about 15 years ago when the southerly loop at Clinton Ave. & Byron St. was opened up to actually include a section of Byron. This ramp has always provided access to Clinton Ave. southbound from the Inner Loop, so the available movements were never completely identical, but the access from Byron St. to I-490 is newer. So only the South/Woodbury ramps mentioned above are 100% redundant: there's nothing you can access from one that you can't from the other, and no approach from which you can't get onto either one of them.

The reason, in this case, is the cancelled I-390 into downtown Rochester: the right-hand ramp into I-490 was originally meant to feed the northern terminus of I-390.

[jeffandnicole]

The new DE 1 North to I-95 North ramp system has 2 ramps: Traffic can use the left lane from 1 to get to the left side of 95 North (Wilmington, Philly), or stay on Rt. 1 for another 1/2 mile, then take the ramp to the right side of 95 North (New Jersey).

It's 2 miles from this interchange to the 95/295 split, so it wasn't the most shortest of weaving movements, but I guess they decided it would help with the congestion issues.

[Mapmikey]

Two more I can think of off the top of my head:

US 64 WB at the beginning of the US 64 freeway in Williamston NC.  You can flyover from the right or make a left turn at the light.  Absolutely no reason to have this setup.

US 17 SB leaving US 15-29 in Opal VA.  You can still turn left at the light or use the flyover further down. 

Mapmikey

[vdeane]

Another I just remembered: Southern end of Ontario 416 at the interchange with 401 and the bridge to the USA. There are two routes from southbound 416 to westbound 401. I assume, but don't know, it's a legacy of the construction of 416 as an upgrade to a pre-existing route.

Oddly, my sat-nav wanted me to bear to the left and then take the ramp from Route 16 onto 401 instead of taking the more direct higher-speed ramp.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7562141,-75.4768398,15z

The high speed interchange was built last for ON 416... also, the interchange with ON 16 long predated ON 416.  When ON 416 was finished, MTO just slapped a couple high speed movements onto the existing infrastructure and called it done.

[shadyjay]

Two I can think of from CT...

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4729349,-72.5606513,16z
CT 81 NB at CT 9 Exit 9 in Haddam.   For some reason, there's always been a "flyover" from CT 81 NB to CT 9 NB.  Just past the overpass, you can turn left onto the ramp to CT 9 NB that is how CT 81 SB traffic reaches CT 9 NB.  The primary-signed nb route is the flyover, but on the left turn ramp there is an old 1980s-era CT 9 NB sign.  There's not a lot of traffic in the area, but maybe the flyover was because of the sight lines of the second ramp. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2965266,-72.7610137,16z
This has come about in recent years, as sometime in the early 2000s, the 95 SB Exit 56 ramp was relocated to empty onto Industrial Drive instead of Leetes Island Road, converting the previous-diamond interchange into something different.  I thought the Leetes->95 SB ramp was going away, but they kept it.  So now you can either turn left or right to get to 95 SB.


There used to be one case on I-91 SB where you could take Exit 27 or 28 to reach CT 15 SB.   Exit 27 was a left hand exit signed for Brainard and Airport Roads.  It left 91 about where the present ramp from 15SB leaves to reach 91SB.  It dumped directly onto CT 15 SB.  The present Exit 28 was still there (always came after 27 SB). 

[akotchi]

The new DE 1 North to I-95 North ramp system has 2 ramps: Traffic can use the left lane from 1 to get to the left side of 95 North (Wilmington, Philly), or stay on Rt. 1 for another 1/2 mile, then take the ramp to the right side of 95 North (New Jersey).

It's 2 miles from this interchange to the 95/295 split, so it wasn't the most shortest of weaving movements, but I guess they decided it would help with the congestion issues.

Not far from there, there are two ramps that can get you from I-495 South to I-95 South.  The preferred one (signed for I-95 South) is the left merge, while a right ramp (signed for Exit 5) merges right before the Exit 5 C-D roadway for DE 141.  I sometimes use that on heavy traffic weekends when I-95 is a mess to get to the right faster.

[Brian556]

Two turn for the same movement. I turned left into the hallway, and left again into the bathroom. Then came the movement.

[JustDrive]

EB Friars Road in San Diego has two ramps to I-15 south, though technically one is signed as "TO I-8."

[doorknob60]

I-84 and 10th Ave in Caldwell has both a loop ramp and a left turn lane to access I-84 WB. The weird thing is, whenever I've been there, I see a good number of people using both methods! Makes no sense to me, but whatever works. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.671067,-116.678139,3a,55.7y,27.59h,80.05t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s5QamSpKEDbojx5CvfmeUPg!2e0?hl=en

[DandyDan]

Going eastbound on L Street (US 275 and NE 92) at I-80, you can either follow the cloverleaf around or turn left to go onto eastbound I-80.  The signage for the loop says it's for North I-680, while the left turn is specifically signed for East I-80, but turning left does give you the chance to go to North I-680 (people going westbound on L Street have no choice but to use that ramp.)  I'm not sure why they just don't get rid of the cloverleaf, considering they only put in the left turn a few years ago.

[Pete from Boston]

Two I can think of from CT...

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4729349,-72.5606513,16z
CT 81 NB at CT 9 Exit 9 in Haddam.   For some reason, there's always been a "flyover" from CT 81 NB to CT 9 NB.  Just past the overpass, you can turn left onto the ramp to CT 9 NB that is how CT 81 SB traffic reaches CT 9 NB.  The primary-signed nb route is the flyover, but on the left turn ramp there is an old 1980s-era CT 9 NB sign.  There's not a lot of traffic in the area, but maybe the flyover was because of the sight lines of the second ramp. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.2965266,-72.7610137,16z
This has come about in recent years, as sometime in the early 2000s, the 95 SB Exit 56 ramp was relocated to empty onto Industrial Drive instead of Leetes Island Road, converting the previous-diamond interchange into something different.  I thought the Leetes->95 SB ramp was going away, but they kept it.  So now you can either turn left or right to get to 95 SB.


There used to be one case on I-91 SB where you could take Exit 27 or 28 to reach CT 15 SB.   Exit 27 was a left hand exit signed for Brainard and Airport Roads.  It left 91 about where the present ramp from 15SB leaves to reach 91SB.  It dumped directly onto CT 15 SB.  The present Exit 28 was still there (always came after 27 SB).

You were so close to another!  At the east end of the Charter Oak Bridge (CT 15 South) there's a right exit (Exit 86) onto the left lane of I-91 South.  This backs up, so I go half a mile further to the next exit off 15 to Exit 87 (Brainard Road/Airport) which also contains a ramp onto the right lane of I-91 South. 

Two noted about this:
1. This used to be a "secret" second way, but Connecticut started signing "TO 91" shields a few years ago.  I was a little disappointed — you know, I had to go find it for myself and all. 
2. I just realized these exit numbers are out of sequence (numbers increase in the other direction on 15). This exit 86 is numbered to match the northbound exit 86, also to I-91 South, which is a ways south of here.

[bzakharin]

A few in NJ. I-295 North now has two left exits onto I-76 West, Exit 26 and 27. I don't know if this is a temporary construction situation or permanent, but it allows those who accidentally exited NJ-42 onto I-295 to exit back onto I-76 (by crossing 2 lanes of traffic).

NJ-70 Westbound has an exit ramp onto NJ-41, both north and south, followed by a right turn at the traffic light to access NJ-41 north again. I imagine the latter is needed to access businesses at the intersection.

And then there's this entering the Atlantic City Expressway at exit 12: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4457019,-74.6181563,18z
Why does the entrance split and have two merges unlike say exit 7 where the two lane entrance from the GSP merges at the same time and has the two extra lanes end some distance afterwards.