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Author Topic: New York State Thruway  (Read 346722 times)

shadyjay

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2050 on: November 14, 2020, 01:25:12 PM »

It occurred to me as I was driving SB on the Northway yesterday afternoon to get on the Thruway that there is no clear indication (other than the New York Thruway shields on the signs) that traffic taking the ramp to get on at 24 is entering a toll road.  And now, a toll road without a cash option.  Most other states seem to be much more clear about the fact you're going to enter a toll road if you take this particular ramp.

Not necessarily.  Its only been within the past few years where some states have added "TOLL ROAD" or "TOLL" black on yellow banners to such signs.  Mass. never used to have any indication that you were turning onto a toll road.  Now its common to see the yellow/black "TOLL ROAD" banner on those ramps.  On Mass Pike entrance signs, there was never a toll road indication, until they went to AET.  Now there's purple "EZ-PASS or Pay-By-Plate" banners.

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2051 on: November 15, 2020, 09:03:22 PM »

I found the Design Build Project page for the Thruway, which has the information for the cashless tolling and the booth removal.  Lost of interesting stuff, particularly part 6 and sections 2-5, 15, and 24 of part 7.  One of the documents also noted exit 24, Williamsville, Lackawanna, exit 45, and Caanan as the booths with incentives for early removal (in that order of decreasing reward).
https://www.thruway.ny.gov/business/design-build/

Looking at the cameras on 511 that are pointed at Williamsville and Lackawanna, booth removal has already begun.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2052 on: November 15, 2020, 09:07:32 PM »

I hope the Thruway plans to do what Delaware did, at least for a while, and put a removed toll booth on display somewhere.  I also hope that one or more of the old blue signs above the toll booths will be moved to a museum.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2053 on: November 15, 2020, 09:21:29 PM »

It occurred to me as I was driving SB on the Northway yesterday afternoon to get on the Thruway that there is no clear indication (other than the New York Thruway shields on the signs) that traffic taking the ramp to get on at 24 is entering a toll road.  And now, a toll road without a cash option.  Most other states seem to be much more clear about the fact you're going to enter a toll road if you take this particular ramp.

IIRC, the requirements for the black on yellow toll banners was something that did not come until the 2009 MUTCD. Hence why it's all over the place if they exist. I would imagine that future sign replacements will include the toll banners.
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vdeane

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2054 on: November 15, 2020, 09:24:13 PM »

I hope the Thruway plans to do what Delaware did, at least for a while, and put a removed toll booth on display somewhere.  I also hope that one or more of the old blue signs above the toll booths will be moved to a museum.
The exit 17 booths actually aren't being removed, though they aren't exactly classic.

It occurred to me as I was driving SB on the Northway yesterday afternoon to get on the Thruway that there is no clear indication (other than the New York Thruway shields on the signs) that traffic taking the ramp to get on at 24 is entering a toll road.  And now, a toll road without a cash option.  Most other states seem to be much more clear about the fact you're going to enter a toll road if you take this particular ramp.

IIRC, the requirements for the black on yellow toll banners was something that did not come until the 2009 MUTCD. Hence why it's all over the place if they exist. I would imagine that future sign replacements will include the toll banners.
Probably.  They were added to NY 17 as part of the exit 131 project.
http://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i86q&state=NY&file=102_1519.JPG
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cl94

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2055 on: November 15, 2020, 10:15:03 PM »

I found the Design Build Project page for the Thruway, which has the information for the cashless tolling and the booth removal.  Lost of interesting stuff, particularly part 6 and sections 2-5, 15, and 24 of part 7.  One of the documents also noted exit 24, Williamsville, Lackawanna, exit 45, and Caanan as the booths with incentives for early removal (in that order of decreasing reward).
https://www.thruway.ny.gov/business/design-build/

Looking at the cameras on 511 that are pointed at Williamsville and Lackawanna, booth removal has already begun.

One of our sources in the project has told us that Caanan removal will begin within the next couple days. 24 had demo equipment standing by yesterday.

Most interesting to me are the record plans, particularly Exit 24's 511 pages.
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Rothman

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2056 on: November 15, 2020, 11:17:34 PM »

Since someone brought up the Mass Pike and thinking it was a quick job, the construction site at the western terminus was there for much longer than it needed to be.  Can't tell you how many times I went through there and the work had been done for the parking and whatnot and the 55 mph constuction zone signs were still up.  It was frustrating.
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cu2010

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2057 on: November 16, 2020, 12:15:46 AM »

I hope the Thruway plans to do what Delaware did, at least for a while, and put a removed toll booth on display somewhere.  I also hope that one or more of the old blue signs above the toll booths will be moved to a museum.
The exit 17 booths actually aren't being removed, though they aren't exactly classic.

I wonder why Exit 17's booths aren't being removed? That's an interstate-to-interstate connection... I realize the booths aren't that old but are they seriously going to keep them up forever?
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cl94

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2058 on: November 16, 2020, 12:12:47 PM »

I hope the Thruway plans to do what Delaware did, at least for a while, and put a removed toll booth on display somewhere.  I also hope that one or more of the old blue signs above the toll booths will be moved to a museum.
The exit 17 booths actually aren't being removed, though they aren't exactly classic.

I wonder why Exit 17's booths aren't being removed? That's an interstate-to-interstate connection... I realize the booths aren't that old but are they seriously going to keep them up forever?

17 has "express lanes" down the middle and NYSTA uses the bridges for other purposes. They're just routing all traffic through the express lanes. Right now, there are two lanes of traffic in each direction, will likely be expanded to 3 by removing one booth per direction.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2059 on: November 16, 2020, 12:35:20 PM »

One of the documents also noted ... exit 45 ... as the booths with incentives for early removal

I know I've mentioned this before, but the single lane ramp from I-490 EB to the Thruway EB is going to be a problem once the toll booths are removed. Hopefully they realize how bad that bottleneck is and widen the EB ramp to two lanes as part of the project. Otherwise, I foresee recurring backups well beyond Exit 29.
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Jim

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2060 on: November 16, 2020, 01:59:35 PM »

Exiting at 24 today, the traffic was all routed through two booths in the middle, with a lot of activity that seems to indicate that demolition work is imminent.  Looks like access to get into the tandem lot has moved to a new ramp just beyond the old entrance.  That was blocked off with orange cones and a state trooper parked across the entrance.

With all of the overhead signs already down or covered and no green or red lane indicators, the toll plaza took on a bleak look.  Combined with the drizzly morning, it looked like a picture out of Cold War-era Eastern Europe.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2061 on: November 16, 2020, 04:45:12 PM »

I drove up to Cornwall yesterday on the Thruway.  The right hand northbound lanes at Exit 16, which were formerly for both Exit 16 and the main line toll booths, are now for Exit 16 exclusively.  Through traffic has to use the former E-ZPass express lanes.  I thought that this would be the case as the Thruway is only two lanes wide north of there anyway.

However there was no signage indicating this change.  There were signs over the right hand lane for Exit 16 but that was it.  Some motorists must have been surprised.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2062 on: November 16, 2020, 07:05:20 PM »

And, of course, getting on at 24 this evening, there was a car sitting in one of the toll booth lanes, with 10 or so surely annoyed drivers in line behind, waiting for someone to hand him a ticket.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2063 on: November 16, 2020, 09:07:40 PM »

And, of course, getting on at 24 this evening, there was a car sitting in one of the toll booth lanes, with 10 or so surely annoyed drivers in line behind, waiting for someone to hand him a ticket.

This still happens on the PA Turnpike, and it has been cashless for six months.  It's amazing people don't read the signs on the toll booths.  Until the toll booths are removed (the PA schedule has not been accelerated from the original 2022 conversion timeline), it will unfortunately continue.
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cl94

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2064 on: November 16, 2020, 09:30:31 PM »

This would be part of why there are heavy incentives to at least partially remove the booths so drivers realize that a stop is not required. I don't think we'll have full removal at the major plazas before Thanksgiving, but I would be surprised if I need to drive through toll booth lanes at 24 next week.
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seicer

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2065 on: November 17, 2020, 08:34:10 AM »

I watched someone get out of their car and look around for a toll taker while several of us were honking our horns on one of the ramps (where only ONE lane was open). :D

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2066 on: November 17, 2020, 08:44:32 AM »

I watched someone get out of their car and look around for a toll taker while several of us were honking our horns on one of the ramps (where only ONE lane was open). :D

Sounds very similar to what happened over seven years ago at the Golden Gate Bridge. I saw the same thing happen at the grocery store when they first rolled out the automated checkout lanes some years back, as well—one man walked up and was baffled as to where the cashier was.

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2067 on: November 17, 2020, 08:57:04 AM »

The classic I-95 shield on the NE Thruway plaza at New Rochelle will fall when  the plaza gets removed.  Another part of history done.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2068 on: November 17, 2020, 09:16:52 AM »

The classic I-95 shield on the NE Thruway plaza at New Rochelle will fall when  the plaza gets removed.  Another part of history done.
I'm pretty sure that's been gone for a while:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9261142,-73.7702059,3a,75y,53.36h,89.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4-dl1etkdG6cP0BRsFayRw!2e0!5s20191101T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

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vdeane

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2069 on: November 17, 2020, 01:00:35 PM »

And, of course, getting on at 24 this evening, there was a car sitting in one of the toll booth lanes, with 10 or so surely annoyed drivers in line behind, waiting for someone to hand him a ticket.

This still happens on the PA Turnpike, and it has been cashless for six months.  It's amazing people don't read the signs on the toll booths.  Until the toll booths are removed (the PA schedule has not been accelerated from the original 2022 conversion timeline), it will unfortunately continue.
That is one reason why I don't like when facilities go AET but don't remove the booths.  The whole point of AET is so that drivers don't have to be inconvenienced by the booths.  Keeping them is just the worst of both worlds.  I don't like it with the Golden Gate, and I don't like it with the PTC (which I don't expect to remove the booths anytime soon, even on their original timetable... now that they're already AET, I doubt they'll see a point, especially given their finances).  Not sure if Maryland is removing booths or not now that they're AET.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2070 on: November 17, 2020, 01:25:24 PM »

And, of course, getting on at 24 this evening, there was a car sitting in one of the toll booth lanes, with 10 or so surely annoyed drivers in line behind, waiting for someone to hand him a ticket.

This still happens on the PA Turnpike, and it has been cashless for six months.  It's amazing people don't read the signs on the toll booths.  Until the toll booths are removed (the PA schedule has not been accelerated from the original 2022 conversion timeline), it will unfortunately continue.
That is one reason why I don't like when facilities go AET but don't remove the booths.  The whole point of AET is so that drivers don't have to be inconvenienced by the booths.  Keeping them is just the worst of both worlds.  I don't like it with the Golden Gate, and I don't like it with the PTC (which I don't expect to remove the booths anytime soon, even on their original timetable... now that they're already AET, I doubt they'll see a point, especially given their finances).  Not sure if Maryland is removing booths or not now that they're AET.

Hopefully we will not have a CA 75 Coronado Bridge situation with toll booths that have not been used since 2002.
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1995hoo

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2071 on: November 17, 2020, 02:02:14 PM »

And, of course, getting on at 24 this evening, there was a car sitting in one of the toll booth lanes, with 10 or so surely annoyed drivers in line behind, waiting for someone to hand him a ticket.

This still happens on the PA Turnpike, and it has been cashless for six months.  It's amazing people don't read the signs on the toll booths.  Until the toll booths are removed (the PA schedule has not been accelerated from the original 2022 conversion timeline), it will unfortunately continue.
That is one reason why I don't like when facilities go AET but don't remove the booths.  The whole point of AET is so that drivers don't have to be inconvenienced by the booths.  Keeping them is just the worst of both worlds.  I don't like it with the Golden Gate, and I don't like it with the PTC (which I don't expect to remove the booths anytime soon, even on their original timetable... now that they're already AET, I doubt they'll see a point, especially given their finances).  Not sure if Maryland is removing booths or not now that they're AET.

Heh, I'd say the most extreme example was when the Verrazano went to one-way tolling. The Brooklyn-bound tollbooths remained in place for something like 25 years, although there didn't seem to be many people mistakenly stopping for those.

BTW, when we were on the Pennsylvania Turnpike last month, there was some level of construction at the westernmost toll plaza (Gateway, I think?) and at the western end of the former ticket system, but I wasn't able to get a good look at what they were doing and whether any demolition was involved.

Maryland was removing the Bay Bridge toll plaza. Don't know whether they finished the work; I haven't passed that way since July 2019.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2020, 02:05:29 PM by 1995hoo »
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2072 on: November 17, 2020, 08:33:15 PM »


Heh, I'd say the most extreme example was when the Verrazano went to one-way tolling. The Brooklyn-bound tollbooths remained in place for something like 25 years, although there didn't seem to be many people mistakenly stopping for those.

BTW, when we were on the Pennsylvania Turnpike last month, there was some level of construction at the westernmost toll plaza (Gateway, I think?) and at the western end of the former ticket system, but I wasn't able to get a good look at what they were doing and whether any demolition was involved.

Maryland was removing the Bay Bridge toll plaza. Don't know whether they finished the work; I haven't passed that way since July 2019.

I think there was a plan to expand the Express lanes at the western end of the ticket system on the PA Turnpike.  I haven't heard of anything else.  The schedule was to install gantries and remove toll plazas on the eastern end in 2022 and elsewhere in 2024.

As for Maryland, the Bay Bridge plaza removal was planned pre-COVID and was more to end backups than a plan to end cash tolling.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2073 on: November 17, 2020, 09:44:38 PM »

Maryland is demolishing the Hatem Bridge plaza right now. Unlike PA, they accelerated their timeline for everything and want to remove the booths as soon as possible.

Re: the Golden Gate Bridge, I maintain that they're leaving those booths to meter traffic as much as anything. There's a RIRO and heavy weave area immediately after the toll plaza, so the booths reduce potential conflicts at the RIRO. There's also the not-insignificant fact that the tolling equipment is mounted in the toll lanes, as geometry makes it difficult to install a gantry elsewhere without closing or heavily modifying ramps.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #2074 on: November 17, 2020, 10:31:25 PM »

Maryland is demolishing the Hatem Bridge plaza right now. Unlike PA, they accelerated their timeline for everything and want to remove the booths as soon as possible.

The Hatem Bridge is unusual in that it allows restricted bicycle traffic but they still forced the cyclists to pay the $8 toll. Since that is going AET, are cyclists still getting tolled?
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