Varying speed limits through one area

[cjk374]

On US 167 through the villages & town of North Hodge, Hodge, and Jonesboro, LA the speed limits change several times to different speeds going down, then up, then down again before finally stepping back up to 65 MPH as you leave. This is how the speed limits are signed as you come into the village of North Hodge and exit out the south side of Jonesboro:  65 -> 50 -> 40 ->35 -> 45 -> 40 -> 45 -> 65

Yes, North Hodge and Hodge are BIG time speed traps (I don't know if Jonesboro even has an active police force due to some nasty political b.s. that has been plaguing the town the last several months).  Where else do speeds vary like this (not a gradual step-down, then a gradual step-up) on a single route?

[NE2]

If they're signed, it's not a trap.

[hbelkins]

There's an odd speed limit reduction on KY 15 south of Hazard. The speed limit drops from 45 to 35 after the turn to Hazard Community College. It's been like that for years. No sense in this at all; I'm told a former mayor of Hazard requested the state drop the speed limit there and the state complied.

[jakeroot]

If they're signed, it's not a trap.

I think a speed trap is when the speed limit goes 60 -> 25 through a town center, with a (read: the) cop waiting behind a billboard just past the drop.

Not sure that sort of drop is allowed per MUTCD regulation, but I swear I've seen such in Colorado before.

[thenetwork]

Western Colorado uses step down speed limits quite a bit.  US-50 going into Delta, CO, for example, goes from 65->55->45->40->30 (Downtown) ->35 -> 45-> 55 ->65.

[cl94]

If they're signed, it's not a trap.

I think a speed trap is when the speed limit goes 60 -> 25 through a town center, with a (read: the) cop waiting behind a billboard just past the drop.

Not sure that sort of drop is allowed per MUTCD regulation, but I swear I've seen such in Colorado before.

Typical in the northeast. Quite a few towns have a police force that does little more than speed enforcement.

[Brandon]

If they're signed, it's not a trap.

I think a speed trap is when the speed limit goes 60 -> 25 through a town center, with a (read: the) cop waiting behind a billboard just past the drop.

Not sure that sort of drop is allowed per MUTCD regulation, but I swear I've seen such in Colorado before.

Wisconsin used to have a 55 -> 25 drop for Lena along US-141.  It's since been bypassed.

[Pete from Boston]

If they're signed, it's not a trap.

I think a speed trap is when the speed limit goes 60 -> 25 through a town center, with a (read: the) cop waiting behind a billboard just past the drop.

Not sure that sort of drop is allowed per MUTCD regulation, but I swear I've seen such in Colorado before.

55 mph to 25 or 30 is not uncommon on two-lane through routes that become the main street of a town.  As long as this is signed well in advance I don't see a huge problem. I'm not sure what the alternative is, other than a complicated series of stepped-down speed limits that ought to not be necessary with enough slow-down distance.

[theline]

I agree with jakeroot that it's a speed trap only if the limit drops suddenly, rather than stepping down.

It's very common, in fact standard, in Indiana for speeds to step down incrementally as one gets into more "built-up" areas. I'm so used to it, I was wondering at first what the OP was all about.

[wxfree]

I know that in Texas the speed zone manual specifies that speed limits not change by more than 15 miles per hour in one step, and that a change should not be closer than 0.2 mile from the last change.  There are some old exceptions, and quite a few new ones related to the statewide increase to 75 mph.  In several places the limit went from 70 to 55 and now goes from 75 to 55, although in most places they made it 75, 70, 55.  Limiting the change makes for longer slow zones in some places where only short ones are needed, but overall I think it's a good practice to make it easier not to get speeding violations.  The manual also specifies that undivided roads should have the same speed limit on both sides, but I'd have no problem changing from 30 to 75 leaving town, if the development pattern makes it appropriate.

[cjk374]

I agree with jakeroot that it's a speed trap only if the limit drops suddenly, rather than stepping down.

It's very common, in fact standard, in Indiana for speeds to step down incrementally as one gets into more "built-up" areas. I'm so used to it, I was wondering at first what the OP was all about.

On US 167 through the villages & town of North Hodge, Hodge, and Jonesboro, LA the speed limits change several times to different speeds going down, then up, then down again before finally stepping back up to 65 MPH as you leave. This is how the speed limits are signed as you come into the village of North Hodge and exit out the south side of Jonesboro:  65 -> 50 -> 40 ->35 -> 45 -> 40 -> 45 -> 65

Yes, North Hodge and Hodge are BIG time speed traps (I don't know if Jonesboro even has an active police force due to some nasty political b.s. that has been plaguing the town the last several months).  Where else do speeds vary like this (not a gradual step-down, then a gradual step-up) on a single route?

[roadman65]

US 17 & 92 in Davenport, FL.  Going WB it goes from 55 to 50, then to 45, following to 40, and then in Downtown Davenport its 35. 

[doorknob60]

Going back to what the OP intended, heading north (well, west) on US-395 out of Bishop, CA goes (starting from the US-6 Jct.) 35 -> 45 -> 35 -> 45 -> 55 -> 65. If you're not careful, that drop to 35 in between the 45s can screw you over.

[dfwmapper]

Between just south of Loop 12 in Dallas and just north of FM 6 (25 miles), TX 78 goes from 40 to 35 to 40 to 45 to 40 to 35 to 40 to 50 to 55 to 45 to 50 to 40 to 50 to 60 to 45 to 55 to 60.

[jakeroot]

Between just south of Loop 12 in Dallas and just north of FM 6 (25 miles), TX 78 goes from 40 to 35 to 40 to 45 to 40 to 35 to 40 to 50 to 55 to 45 to 50 to 40 to 50 to 60 to 45 to 55 to 60.

[US81]

Between just south of Loop 12 in Dallas and just north of FM 6 (25 miles), TX 78 goes from 40 to 35 to 40 to 45 to 40 to 35 to 40 to 50 to 55 to 45 to 50 to 40 to 50 to 60 to 45 to 55 to 60.

Even though this may not reach some people's definition of a "trap", it is exhausting to keeping identifying and changing one's speed according to the ever changing limit (sometimes hidden by a big truck in the right hand lane) with the super-strict enforcement typical of many Texas municipalities. This situation occurs often enough that anticipating it has definitely put a damper on the driving the US and state routes for pleasure that I used to do.

[odditude]

US 13 in Delaware. Prior to Route 1's construction, it was the primary way to get to Salisbury and Ocean City from NJ and north after crossing the Del Mem Br... and it was a royal PITA.

[cjk374]

Between just south of Loop 12 in Dallas and just north of FM 6 (25 miles), TX 78 goes from 40 to 35 to 40 to 45 to 40 to 35 to 40 to 50 to 55 to 45 to 50 to 40 to 50 to 60 to 45 to 55 to 60.

Looks like we have a winner!   

[Roadrunner75]

US 13 in Delaware. Prior to Route 1's construction, it was the primary way to get to Salisbury and Ocean City from NJ and north after crossing the Del Mem Br... and it was a royal PITA.

Agreed.  Route 1 wasn't the first "toll" road through this corridor.

[jeffandnicole]

It's better than the alternative though.  If they wanted, they could just say instead of going from 30mph to 40mph back to 30mph, they could just say the whole stretch is 30 mph.

[theline]

I agree with jakeroot that it's a speed trap only if the limit drops suddenly, rather than stepping down.

It's very common, in fact standard, in Indiana for speeds to step down incrementally as one gets into more "built-up" areas. I'm so used to it, I was wondering at first what the OP was all about.

On US 167 through the villages & town of North Hodge, Hodge, and Jonesboro, LA the speed limits change several times to different speeds going down, then up, then down again before finally stepping back up to 65 MPH as you leave. This is how the speed limits are signed as you come into the village of North Hodge and exit out the south side of Jonesboro:  65 -> 50 -> 40 ->35 -> 45 -> 40 -> 45 -> 65

Yes, North Hodge and Hodge are BIG time speed traps (I don't know if Jonesboro even has an active police force due to some nasty political b.s. that has been plaguing the town the last several months).  Where else do speeds vary like this (not a gradual step-down, then a gradual step-up) on a single route?

Thanks for straightening me out. I've gotta start reading more carefully before responding! Now I see your point.

[Duke87]

Any road in Massachusetts with curves. Because Massachusetts doesn't believe in advisory panels.

[vdeane]

They used to, until a judge told them that advisory panels couldn't be enforced (aka be used as a way to raise revenue).

[Brandon]

They used to, until a judge told them that advisory panels couldn't be enforced (aka be used as a way to raise revenue).

That's because, well duh, they're advisory panels and not meant to replace an actual speed limit.  Cops should be forced to read the MUTCD before they get assigned to traffic duty so they can better understand what the hell they're trying to actually enforce.

[wxfree]

They used to, until a judge told them that advisory panels couldn't be enforced (aka be used as a way to raise revenue).

That's because, well duh, they're advisory panels and not meant to replace an actual speed limit.  Cops should be forced to read the MUTCD before they get assigned to traffic duty so they can better understand what the hell they're trying to actually enforce.

The laws are different in different places, but in Texas the actual speed limit is "reasonable and prudent" while numerical speed limits are not absolute, but exceeding a numerical speed limit is prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable and prudent and therefore unlawful.  Numerical speed limits and advisory speeds are not "enforceable" and "non-enforceable," but both give evidence as to what speed has been determined to be reasonable and prudent for a particular section of road.  TxDOT's speed zone manual says "An advisory speed sign serves to advise drivers of safe speeds that are recommended for certain roadway conditions, such as horizontal curves. It does aid the enforcement officer, however, in determining reasonable and prudent speeds. A driver might be cited for exceeding the posted value of an advisory speed zone on the grounds that they were driving at a speed that was not reasonable and prudent for the conditions existing at the time and location."  Exceeding the speed on the advisory sign, or even a regulatory sign, is not unlawful, but either constitutes evidence that the speed is unlawful.  I haven't studied that laws in other states, and there are sure to be differences, but I wouldn't conclude that advisory speeds are strictly non-enforceable.