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Non-Interstate Highways with Numbered Exits

Started by TEG24601, July 24, 2015, 04:11:49 PM

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machias

As mentioned earlier, Upstate New York tends to not number interchanges off of non-interstate freeways. I think this hearkens back to the 1961 MUTCD when it's mentioned that Interstates should have interchange numbers (instead of _freeways_ should have interchange numbers). There's still a lot of old people at NYSDOT.

I've been begging for exit numbering on NY 33 in Buffalo for years, my argument being that it's longer than I-290 and has more interchanges than I-290 but NYSDOT says nope because it's not an interstate.


cl94

Quote from: upstatenyroads on August 19, 2015, 01:06:45 PM
As mentioned earlier, Upstate New York tends to not number interchanges off of non-interstate freeways. I think this hearkens back to the 1961 MUTCD when it's mentioned that Interstates should have interchange numbers (instead of _freeways_ should have interchange numbers). There's still a lot of old people at NYSDOT.

I've been begging for exit numbering on NY 33 in Buffalo for years, my argument being that it's longer than I-290 and has more interchanges than I-290 but NYSDOT says nope because it's not an interstate.

These are the same people who refuse to stop using sequential exit numbering because switching would "cause too much confusion"
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Rothman

Quote from: cl94 on August 19, 2015, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on August 19, 2015, 01:06:45 PM
As mentioned earlier, Upstate New York tends to not number interchanges off of non-interstate freeways. I think this hearkens back to the 1961 MUTCD when it's mentioned that Interstates should have interchange numbers (instead of _freeways_ should have interchange numbers). There's still a lot of old people at NYSDOT.

I've been begging for exit numbering on NY 33 in Buffalo for years, my argument being that it's longer than I-290 and has more interchanges than I-290 but NYSDOT says nope because it's not an interstate.

These are the same people who refuse to stop using sequential exit numbering because switching would "cause too much confusion"

...and cause too much of a burden on businesses to change advertising.   :banghead:
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

theline

Quote from: monty on August 16, 2015, 02:27:25 PM
The new US 31 freeway segments in Indiana has exit numbers as does the US 20 freeway around South Bend.  Anything else in Indiana?

Can I get an example of exit numbers on the US 20 freeway (St. Joseph Valley Parkway)? I don't recall any. Over the years, I often thought they would be useful. Several exits into the city are marked identically "South Bend" with no indication of the street. It has to be confusing to travelers.

roadfro

Quote from: cl94 on August 19, 2015, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on August 19, 2015, 01:06:45 PM
As mentioned earlier, Upstate New York tends to not number interchanges off of non-interstate freeways. I think this hearkens back to the 1961 MUTCD when it's mentioned that Interstates should have interchange numbers (instead of _freeways_ should have interchange numbers). There's still a lot of old people at NYSDOT.

I've been begging for exit numbering on NY 33 in Buffalo for years, my argument being that it's longer than I-290 and has more interchanges than I-290 but NYSDOT says nope because it's not an interstate.

These are the same people who refuse to stop using sequential exit numbering because switching would "cause too much confusion"


Actually, the 1961 MUTCD makes no mention that only Interstates should have exit numbering. In fact, the only mention of exit numbering I found comes from Section 1D-34–Interchange Sign Requirements:
QuoteThe designation of interchanges by name may be advantageous in some circumstances, but generally an interchange can be identified by the name or number of the intersected highway or the chief destination thereon. A special interchange designation only adds to the legend that must appear on the interchange signs. Numbering of interchanges is subject to the further disadvantage that it assumes definite termini for an expressway and a fixed number of interchanges.

Interestingly, this edition of the manual appears to *discourage* exit numbering.


The 1971 MUTCD was the next full edition of the manual. This edition makes the first mention of required freeway exit numbering. Section 2F-20–Interchange Exit Numbering (from the part of the manual on freeway signing practices):
QuoteThe milepost numbers along freeways provide valuable orientation to the driver, and the appropriate milepost number shall be used in signing each interchange exit. ...

Interchange exit numbers shall be displayed with each advance guide sign, exit direction sign, and the gore sign. ... The milepost exit number preferably will be displayed on a separate panel at the top of the major sign, or at location below the major sign where conditions make this more practical. ...

Consistent with the AASHO action to adopt the consecutive numbering system for the Interstate System and with the Federal requirement for a milepost numbering system, the two systems may be combined by displaying an auxiliary panel with a single line legend "MILE (number)–EXIT (number)" in conjunction with the advance guide, exit direction and overhead gore signs. For the ground-mounted EXIT gore sign that already displays a consecutive number, the auxiliary panel will read only "MILE (number)".

As far as the MUTCD is concerned, it doesn't appear that the MUTCD ever had an rule only requiring Interstates to use exit numbering. It also appears that FHWA has always preferred reference-based exit numbering. From this, it looks like sequential numbering on Interstates was an AASHO directive which conflicted with reference-based numbering directed by FHWA, with both methods arising sometime between 1961 and 1971 and this MUTCD attempted to reconcile those conflicting policies.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

TEG24601

On this same subject...


If you have HOV exits, are they numbered exits?  I just noticed on I-405 near Bellevue, WA, a couple of HOV only ramps don't have exit numbers.
They said take a left at the fork in the road.  I didn't think they literally meant a fork, until plain as day, there was a fork sticking out of the road at a junction.

Kacie Jane

Quote from: TEG24601 on August 24, 2015, 11:05:10 AM
On this same subject...


If you have HOV exits, are they numbered exits?  I just noticed on I-405 near Bellevue, WA, a couple of HOV only ramps don't have exit numbers.

...Neither do any of the ones on I-5 that have been around several years longer.

(In other words, no, typically not.)

Bruce

Quote from: Kacie Jane on August 24, 2015, 12:39:25 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on August 24, 2015, 11:05:10 AM
On this same subject...


If you have HOV exits, are they numbered exits?  I just noticed on I-405 near Bellevue, WA, a couple of HOV only ramps don't have exit numbers.

...Neither do any of the ones on I-5 that have been around several years longer.

(In other words, no, typically not.)

They really shouldn't, since exit numbers implies that they aren't restricted.

Same goes for the right-side exit to the King County Metro north bus base on I-5 at N 163rd Street (between exits 175 and 176).
Wikipedia - TravelMapping (100% of WA SRs)

Photos

TheHighwayMan3561

Minnesota's only non-Interstate with exit numbers is US 52 in the Rochester vicinity. The St. Paul freeway portion is not numbered.

getemngo

Michigan has been very inconsistent over the years.

US 131 has had exit numbers my entire life. I think US 31 (from Grand Haven north) and US 127 got them 10-15 years ago. M-6 had them from when it was built in 2001.

On the other hand, US 10, M-53, and M-59 didn't get exit numbers until the switch to Clearview. As far as I know, M-5 and M-8 are the only remaining exit number holdouts. The expressway portion of US 31 through Holland doesn't have numbers, but the M-57 interchange on non-freeway US 127 does.
~ Sam from Michigan