State Highways in New England

[mariethefoxy]

I was wondering, is there any instance in New England where the numbers do NOT stay the same when you cross a state line? Somehow between 6 states they seem to have coordinated things perfectly so the numbers stay the same when you go across state lines, and I was always curious how they all managed to do that.

[hotdogPi]

There are exactly two exceptions (not including Canada), and they are both with the New York border and a state in New England. One of them is NY 7 / VT 9. I forget what the other one is.

Within New England, there are no places where the number changes, but there are several where it is numbered on one side of the state border and not the other.

[dgolub]

It's because of the New England interstate system.  Back in the early 20th century, they had a system of New England routes that were numbered on a New England-wide basis.  For example, CT 8/MA 8/NH 8 and CT 10/MA 10/NH 10 used to be NE 8 and NE 10, respectively.

[SectorZ]

The closest thing we have is where a route goes from one number to nothing, with many examples (121, 122, 123, 124, and 128) of NH routes becoming unnumbered roads into Massachusetts.

[froggie]

There are exactly two exceptions (not including Canada), and they are both with the New York border and a state in New England. One of them is NY 7 / VT 9. I forget what the other one is.

NY 185/VT 17

Regarding the OP, we do have one example that comes close:  VT 103 does not line up with NH 103, however one could consider this a break or a route that ends at the state line.  VT 103 ends at US 5, while NH 103 ends at the state line, with VT 12/NH 12 on both sides of the river at that crossing.

Related to what SectorZ posted, there are also some examples in Vermont of routes that end at the state line.  VT 114, VT 105, VT 100, VT 279 (technically...it's a state highway on the New York side but is an unsigned reference route), VT 153, VT 31.

[kurumi]

Aside from the New England Interstate route system (many longer routes of 1 or 2 digits), there has been explicit cooperation between states on number continuity.

Good example: Interstate 190 creates a conflict with MA/CT 190. Both states renumber 190 to 168 (CT partially). Same for the entirety of MA/CT 93 (because of I-93).

Connecticut has also done this with New York (part or all of CT 4, 29, and 33 renumbered to 361, 124, and 116; and 341, 343 are New York numbers)

[NE2]

HOLY SHIT A GURREL MUST AVOID SARCASM oops

The original MA 15 was assigned to match CT 15. Now MA 15 (unsigned but in official data last I checked) matches RI 15.

[vdeane]

And both NY/VT route number changes have a good reason:
-NY 7/VT 9: NY has US 9, VT has US 7, and it connects to NH 9 on the other end
-NY 185/VT 17: NY 185 was a reference route until a couple years ago

[NE2]

-NY 7/VT 9: NY has US 9, VT has US 7, and it connects to NH 9 on the other end

This was in fact NY 9 until 1926.

[mariethefoxy]

HOLY SHIT A GURREL MUST AVOID SARCASM oops

Ahhh!! I've been found out, MUST HIDE!! 

Seriously I just thought it was interesting that officials from 6 states managed to coordinate things so well together. As for the NY ones, New York isnt part of New England.

[froggie]

Some states do that, and not just in New England.  It should be noted that, with very few exceptions, Virginia state routes that cross the state line also keep the same route number.

There are also a number of MN/IA routes that retain the same number across the state line.

[vdeane]

Wasn't the part of NY east of the Hudson considered part of NE for the purpose of the unified numbering system?

[Zeffy]

Some states do that, and not just in New England.  It should be noted that, with very few exceptions, Virginia state routes that cross the state line also keep the same route number.

Delaware also does this with both Maryland and Pennsylvania. Some notable examples include MD/DE 273, MD/DE/PA 896, DE/PA 41, MD/DE 51, etc. However,  it should be noted that there are plenty of exceptions where Maryland and Delaware routes switch numbers at the state line, unlike most of New England.

[NE2]

Wasn't the part of NY east of the Hudson considered part of NE for the purpose of the unified numbering system?

Yes: http://books.google.com/books?id=5fg_AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA8-PA7
But it's not clear whether New York actually went with this or just decided to continue the numbers because it made sense. NE 4 ended at the CT-NY line.

[KEVIN_224]

It had been the case with MD Route 279 becoming DE Route 2 between Elkton, MD and Newark, DE. That was changed in the fall of 2013, when DE renumbered Elkton Road as DE Route 279.

[empirestate]

Wasn't the part of NY east of the Hudson considered part of NE for the purpose of the unified numbering system?

I still consider it so, along with Suffolk County on Long Island.

(More precisely, I consider the land between the Hudson and Connecticut Rivers to be a homogenous socio-cultural region, whether part of New England or some separate entity in its own right. Further, I've heard it stated that while the North Shore of Long Island has much in common with coastal New England, the South Shore is more akin to the Mid-Atlantic coastal region, and I tend to agree.)

[mariethefoxy]

Wasn't the part of NY east of the Hudson considered part of NE for the purpose of the unified numbering system?

(More precisely, I consider the land between the Hudson and Connecticut Rivers to be a homogenous socio-cultural region, whether part of New England or some separate entity in its own right. Further, I've heard it stated that while the North Shore of Long Island has much in common with coastal New England, the South Shore is more akin to the Mid-Atlantic coastal region, and I tend to agree.)

As a Long Islander ill say its a stretch to say we are the same as the entire New England. Id say its more of a mix of suburban Connecticut and suburban New Jersey style culture. But its really a culture of its own.

[route17fan]

There are exactly two exceptions (not including Canada), and they are both with the New York border and a state in New England. One of them is NY 7 / VT 9. I forget what the other one is.

NY 185/VT 17

A question concerning NY 185 - wasn't that old NY 8? (a looong time ago) - if so, it would still be valid to say that it did not connect to an old VT 8, correct?

[empirestate]

(More precisely, I consider the land between the Hudson and Connecticut Rivers to be a homogenous socio-cultural region, whether part of New England or some separate entity in its own right. Further, I've heard it stated that while the North Shore of Long Island has much in common with coastal New England, the South Shore is more akin to the Mid-Atlantic coastal region, and I tend to agree.)

As a Long Islander ill say its a stretch to say we are the same as the entire New England. Id say its more of a mix of suburban Connecticut and suburban New Jersey style culture. But its really a culture of its own.

I'd say it is too; that's why I specified coastal New England.

And if you want to get more specific, the North Shore, quite simply, recalls the opposing shore of Long Island Sound, in CT and RI...and as you go east down the North Fork you start to recognize the islands of Massachusetts. Indeed, Massachusetts' Dukes County was at one time attached to the New York colony; its counterpart in Dutchess County is still there.

[froggie]

(More precisely, I consider the land between the Hudson and Connecticut Rivers to be a homogenous socio-cultural region, whether part of New England or some separate entity in its own right.

In southern New England, perhaps.  That homogeneity is much less defined the closer you get to the Canadian border, and I would say is nonexistant by the time you get north of US 4.

[Pete from Boston]

(More precisely, I consider the land between the Hudson and Connecticut Rivers to be a homogenous socio-cultural region, whether part of New England or some separate entity in its own right. Further, I've heard it stated that while the North Shore of Long Island has much in common with coastal New England, the South Shore is more akin to the Mid-Atlantic coastal region, and I tend to agree.)

As a Long Islander ill say its a stretch to say we are the same as the entire New England. Id say its more of a mix of suburban Connecticut and suburban New Jersey style culture. But its really a culture of its own.

I'd say it is too; that's why I specified coastal New England.

And if you want to get more specific, the North Shore, quite simply, recalls the opposing shore of Long Island Sound, in CT and RI...and as you go east down the North Fork you start to recognize the islands of Massachusetts. Indeed, Massachusetts' Dukes County was at one time attached to the New York colony; its counterpart in Dutchess County is still there.

320+ years ago.  It's an interesting tidbit to be sure, but it has little to do with the cultural similarities today, which are more related to simple cultural and physical geography.  The part of Maine that was once Cornwall County, New York, probably does not reflect a similarity to its former owner for reasons meaningfully traceable to their common 17th-century lineage, either.

[dgolub]

Wasn't the part of NY east of the Hudson considered part of NE for the purpose of the unified numbering system?

I still consider it so, along with Suffolk County on Long Island.

For the purposes of route numbering, Long Island is basically separate from anything else, period.  The only state route that leaves the island is NY 25, and it ends right on the other side of the bridge.  Even if you include interstates, I-278 is the only road on Long Island that has non-negligible mileage off Long Island.

[empirestate]

(More precisely, I consider the land between the Hudson and Connecticut Rivers to be a homogenous socio-cultural region, whether part of New England or some separate entity in its own right.

In southern New England, perhaps.  That homogeneity is much less defined the closer you get to the Canadian border, and I would say is nonexistant by the time you get north of US 4.

I'd buy that; well, for one thing, the Hudson itself stop being a discernible boundary as you go farther north, and Lake Champlain becomes the clearer boundary.


iPhone

[empirestate]

(More precisely, I consider the land between the Hudson and Connecticut Rivers to be a homogenous socio-cultural region, whether part of New England or some separate entity in its own right. Further, I've heard it stated that while the North Shore of Long Island has much in common with coastal New England, the South Shore is more akin to the Mid-Atlantic coastal region, and I tend to agree.)

As a Long Islander ill say its a stretch to say we are the same as the entire New England. Id say its more of a mix of suburban Connecticut and suburban New Jersey style culture. But its really a culture of its own.

I'd say it is too; that's why I specified coastal New England.

And if you want to get more specific, the North Shore, quite simply, recalls the opposing shore of Long Island Sound, in CT and RI...and as you go east down the North Fork you start to recognize the islands of Massachusetts. Indeed, Massachusetts' Dukes County was at one time attached to the New York colony; its counterpart in Dutchess County is still there.

320+ years ago.  It's an interesting tidbit to be sure, but it has little to do with the cultural similarities today, which are more related to simple cultural and physical geography.  The part of Maine that was once Cornwall County, New York, probably does not reflect a similarity to its former owner for reasons meaningfully traceable to their common 17th-century lineage, either.

Exactly; the present cultural similarities and the former political connection came about for a common reason of proximity. One isn't a result of the other.


iPhone

[route17fan]

There are exactly two exceptions (not including Canada), and they are both with the New York border and a state in New England. One of them is NY 7 / VT 9. I forget what the other one is.

NY 185/VT 17

A question concerning NY 185 - wasn't that old NY 8? (a looong time ago) - if so, it would still be valid to say that it did not connect to an old VT 8, correct?

I found the answer to my question - my apologies - I was just unfamiliar with the system in general. I have since been educated and informed.