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Author Topic: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware  (Read 57363 times)

US 89

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #425 on: January 12, 2019, 02:18:56 PM »

Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.

By AASHTO rule, a tolled US route must have a free alternate (excluding bridge tolls, of course). The other four existing US tolls all have a free alternate: the US 412 tollways in Oklahoma have US 64 (Cimarron) and Alt 412 (Cherokee), the US 278 tollway in SC has Business 278, and the US 51/I-90 tollway has IL 251.

What Delaware is doing here with US 301 is unprecedented in the entire US highway system's history. If the truck companies sued over this, I'm fairly sure they would win.

Should that happen; it wouldn't surprise me at all if DelDOT's reaction/remedy for such would be to redesignate US 301 in their state as DE 301 thereby bypassing that AASHTO rule.  I'm surprised DelDOT didn't pursue such action when this tolled highway was planned.

But then it would end at a state line, which is a higher priority in AASHTO's list of things you aren't allowed to do with a US highway.

And at this point, they probably wouldn't allow moving US 301 back onto the old route, because that would be moving it to a lower-standard routing. I guess you can't win.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #426 on: January 12, 2019, 02:31:28 PM »

I've uploaded my videos!

Northbound:
Southbound (exit for US-301 at 3:35):

So the non-Clearview Exit 2 signage we've seen so far is the only non-Clearview signage in the project? Was the signage in the southern section put up in a different, earlier signage contract?

I hope the setup at the exit from DE 1 isn't permanent and that there will eventually be an option lane, but the lack of an APL or diagrammatic implies otherwise. The concrete layout certainly would allow for it, and I wonder if they'll do that if they ever go AET on DE 1 and remove the toll plaza.
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sprjus4

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #427 on: January 12, 2019, 02:45:36 PM »

I've uploaded my videos!

Northbound:
Southbound (exit for US-301 at 3:35):

So the non-Clearview Exit 2 signage we've seen so far is the only non-Clearview signage in the project? Was the signage in the southern section put up in a different, earlier signage contract?
I don't know, but the Clearview font used on newer signage is ugly IMHO. The font used at Exit 2 is how all the signage should still be on new roads, signs, etc IMO.

I know Virginia switched to the signage too sadly, but I'm glad North Carolina is keeping the older style.
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hbelkins

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #428 on: January 12, 2019, 02:50:20 PM »

Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.

By AASHTO rule, a tolled US route must have a free alternate (excluding bridge tolls, of course). The other four existing US tolls all have a free alternate: the US 412 tollways in Oklahoma have US 64 (Cimarron) and Alt 412 (Cherokee), the US 278 tollway in SC has Business 278, and the US 51/I-90 tollway has IL 251.

What Delaware is doing here with US 301 is unprecedented in the entire US highway system's history. If the truck companies sued over this, I'm fairly sure they would win.

AASHTO, SMASHTO. AASHTO is a voluntary organization with no legally binding enforcement powers. Hasn't Oklahoma signed a US route for years without AASHTO approval?

Anyone who sues over a violation of AASHTO guidelines -- and they are guidelines, not regulations -- is going to lose if that's the basis for their argument.
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ipeters61

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #429 on: January 12, 2019, 03:43:31 PM »

So the non-Clearview Exit 2 signage we've seen so far is the only non-Clearview signage in the project? Was the signage in the southern section put up in a different, earlier signage contract?

I hope the setup at the exit from DE 1 isn't permanent and that there will eventually be an option lane, but the lack of an APL or diagrammatic implies otherwise. The concrete layout certainly would allow for it, and I wonder if they'll do that if they ever go AET on DE 1 and remove the toll plaza.
Exit 5 (DE-71) was also non-Clearview.  Not sure on the signage, but each segment was a separate construction contract: https://news.delaware.gov/2018/01/22/us-301-project-takes-shape-in-middletown/

If they did go AET on DE-1 eventually, then my guess would be that this would be the APL (I slapped this together pretty quickly so forgive its crappiness):

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PHLBOS

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #430 on: January 12, 2019, 04:19:18 PM »

Isn't there some requirement that a relatively nearby toll-free alternative route (not necessarily a highway) needs to be available for all vehicles?

Not providing a toll-free alternate route tells me that such a draconian restriction will probably result in lawsuits being filed by trucking companies/interest groups.  Time will tell.

By AASHTO rule, a tolled US route must have a free alternate (excluding bridge tolls, of course). The other four existing US tolls all have a free alternate: the US 412 tollways in Oklahoma have US 64 (Cimarron) and Alt 412 (Cherokee), the US 278 tollway in SC has Business 278, and the US 51/I-90 tollway has IL 251.

What Delaware is doing here with US 301 is unprecedented in the entire US highway system's history. If the truck companies sued over this, I'm fairly sure they would win.

Should that happen; it wouldn't surprise me at all if DelDOT's reaction/remedy for such would be to redesignate US 301 in their state as DE 301 thereby bypassing that AASHTO rule.  I'm surprised DelDOT didn't pursue such action when this tolled highway was planned.

But then it would end at a state line, which is a higher priority in AASHTO's list of things you aren't allowed to do with a US highway.

And at this point, they probably wouldn't allow moving US 301 back onto the old route, because that would be moving it to a lower-standard routing. I guess you can't win.
If I'm not mistaken, the toll-free alternative to the tolled US route per the AASHTO rule need not necessarily be designated as US route number nor does it have to be the same grade of highway (expressway vs. arterial). 

In reference to an example that I mentioned earlier: Circa 1971, when US 1 in the Boston area was rerouted onto a tolled harbor crossing (the Sumner/Callahan Tunnels) via the old MA C1; MA 99, which took over the old US 1 between Saugus & Everett and ran further south towards Charlestown, was born and became the routed toll-free river/harbor crossing (the I-93 extension to the Central Artery wouldn't happen until 1973).

Personally, I don't care which corridor (old or new) has the US 301 designation.  The issue here is that there is no toll-free alternative route that all vehicles can realistically use.  In contrast, when the Delaware Turnpike (I-95) & the tolled portion of DE 1 were built (at different times); neither of those tolled facilities obliterated an existing free corridor (a truck can still use US 40 to bypass I-95 or US 13 to bypass DE 1).  I.e. for the new US 301; the notion of "If you don't want a pay the toll, don't use the highway" can't apply here.

As stated earlier, had there been a partial, northbound exit/southbound entrance, with Middletown Warwick Rd. (former US 301) constructed just north of the border & south of the mainline gantry (granted, two of the four ramps at Exit 2 (DE 299) would be then redundant); such would've been compliant with the AASHTO rule/guideline/whatever.
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Roadsguy

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #431 on: January 12, 2019, 04:35:18 PM »

So the non-Clearview Exit 2 signage we've seen so far is the only non-Clearview signage in the project? Was the signage in the southern section put up in a different, earlier signage contract?

I hope the setup at the exit from DE 1 isn't permanent and that there will eventually be an option lane, but the lack of an APL or diagrammatic implies otherwise. The concrete layout certainly would allow for it, and I wonder if they'll do that if they ever go AET on DE 1 and remove the toll plaza.
Exit 5 (DE-71) was also non-Clearview.  Not sure on the signage, but each segment was a separate construction contract: https://news.delaware.gov/2018/01/22/us-301-project-takes-shape-in-middletown/

If they did go AET on DE-1 eventually, then my guess would be that this would be the APL (I slapped this together pretty quickly so forgive its crappiness):



DE 1 would have three lanes and both shields should have yellow TOLL markers, but yeah. I imagine that if they keep it a single-lane exit, or do make it an option lane but don't use an APL, it would be because of the signage approaching the toll plaza complicating things.
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NE2

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #432 on: January 12, 2019, 05:16:24 PM »

Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #433 on: January 12, 2019, 05:19:56 PM »

For those of you planning to drive this new route when it opens, kindly remember US Ends .com in your travels  :biggrin: 
We will be happy to credit you for your photos of US 301 signage at its new endpoint/beginning point, as well as the last northbound 301 marker, and the first southbound marker.

I apologize for the sun glare, but it's that time of year. This is SB.





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Roadsguy

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #434 on: January 12, 2019, 05:32:22 PM »

Something else I noticed from ipeters' videos is at least one southbound reassurance marker with "South" written in mixed case.
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ixnay

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #435 on: January 12, 2019, 07:06:27 PM »

Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.

That's right.

https://www.deldot.gov/osow/application/permrestrictions

Anything to bilk the trucker.  Thank God I am not one.

ixnay
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ipeters61

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #436 on: January 12, 2019, 07:41:05 PM »

Something else I noticed from ipeters' videos is at least one southbound reassurance marker with "South" written in mixed case.
Yeah, I picked up on that when I was driving by it.  I was waiting for someone to point it out!
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Tonytone

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #437 on: January 12, 2019, 11:14:49 PM »

Maybe they will build the new 301 road, when the 301 Tolls make the money for such.
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sprjus4

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #438 on: January 12, 2019, 11:31:09 PM »

Maybe they will build the new 301 road, when the 301 Tolls make the money for such.
That would be many years then. This project alone cost over $600 million and has to be paid back via tolls. That's going to take at least 20 years.
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Tonytone

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #439 on: January 12, 2019, 11:38:48 PM »

Maybe they will build the new 301 road, when the 301 Tolls make the money for such.
That would be many years then. This project alone cost over $600 million and has to be paid back via tolls. That's going to take at least 20 years.
Debt is a thing you just have nowadays, how do we know they wont use the Toll revenue to build the 896 ramp and the 301 road.

They are still doing construction on the local roads around the highway, so they will still be doing finishing touches on the roads, and highway as well
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sprjus4

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #440 on: January 12, 2019, 11:40:31 PM »

Debt is a thing you just have nowadays, how do we know they wont use the Toll revenue to build the 896 ramp and the 301 road.

They are still doing construction on the local roads around the highway, so they will still be doing finishing touches on the roads, and highway as well
True, you got a point.
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MASTERNC

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #441 on: January 13, 2019, 12:59:50 PM »

Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.

That's right.

https://www.deldot.gov/osow/application/permrestrictions

Anything to bilk the trucker.  Thank God I am not one.

ixnay

Looks like this is just oversize or overweight vehicles?
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cl94

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #442 on: January 13, 2019, 01:06:40 PM »

Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.

That's right.

https://www.deldot.gov/osow/application/permrestrictions

Anything to bilk the trucker.  Thank God I am not one.

ixnay

Looks like this is just oversize or overweight vehicles?

The site wording is funky, but signage clearly bans trucks (at least in the US 40 and DE 279 cases). Signs generally look like this one on DE 896 approaching DE 4.
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PHLBOS

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #443 on: January 14, 2019, 09:04:08 AM »

Through trucks cannot use US 40 across the state line or US 13 through Dover.

That's right.

https://www.deldot.gov/osow/application/permrestrictions

Anything to bilk the trucker.  Thank God I am not one.

ixnay

Looks like this is just oversize or overweight vehicles?

The site wording is funky, but signage clearly bans trucks (at least in the US 40 and DE 279 cases). Signs generally look like this one on DE 896 approaching DE 4.
After quickly scanning through GSVs (dated between 2015-2018 depending on location) along DE 896 between I-95 & US 40 as well as US 40 between MD 279 & DE 896; there doesn't appear to be any signage that flat out prohibits trucks and/or oversize/overheight vehicles for US 40 itself similar to ones along DE 896 north of I-95  (per the posted-example).  There only appears to be thru-truck prohibition signs for connecting cross/side streets (including Business DE 896 along Glasgow Ave.).
________________________________

Back to the topic at hand: after looking at the southern portion a tad more closely; I am modifying my earlier recommendation to relocate of the mainline US 301 AET gantries north of Exit 2 (DE 299) to instead relocate them within said-interchange.  That way local traffic to/from Warwick, MD along US 301 isn't forced to pay a $4.00/$5.60 toll just for crossing the state-line.  Since these are just gantries and not toll booths; relocating/repositioning them shouldn't be an issue. 

Either that or extend Middletown Warwick Rd. (former US 301) into MD & have it intersect/interchange w/US 301 on the MD side.  Note: Strawberry Lane/Wilson St. is a narrow two-lane road w/no shoulders & has had a long-time thru-truck prohibition.
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seicer

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #444 on: January 14, 2019, 09:26:02 AM »

Yeah, I was scanning both Maryland and Delaware for signs and couldn't find any. The only restriction I could find was a left-lane truck restriction over the Susquehanna River. At any rate, with the high number of traffic signals and driveway entrances, US 40 is not an ideal truck route. It doesn't make any fiscal or logical sense to use US 40 as a truck "shunpike."
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Tonytone

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #445 on: January 14, 2019, 09:50:17 AM »

I didnt even know there was a truck ban on 40, explains why truckers dont take 40 to access I-95 Past the Newark toll.  Seems like These states like to play games with truckers.


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PHLBOS

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #446 on: January 14, 2019, 11:48:49 AM »

I didnt even know there was a truck ban on 40, explains why truckers dont take 40 to access I-95 Past the Newark toll.  Seems like These states like to play games with truckers.
A few years ago, and noted in the Delaware thread, there was an article that covered the increased truck traffic along DE 896 between I-95 and the now-DE 279 (a route that is dotted with Vehicles w/more than 2-axle prohibition signs) since the current I-95 toll rates (which eliminated any E-ZPass discount toll rates) took effect.  Interestingly, the article mentioned nothing regarding traffic along US 40 between DE 896 & MD 279.

Nonetheless, the squabble between DE and truckers regarding tolls has existed for some time; the mainline AET gantry along southern portion of tolled US 301 with respect to the surrounding smaller roadways may very well have placed additional gasoline on that proverbial fire.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 12:37:36 PM by PHLBOS »
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jeffandnicole

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #447 on: January 14, 2019, 12:15:03 PM »

There isn't a truck ban on US 40.  The link above is for oversized/overweight trucks, which there are extremely few of.  They usually have a banner stating oversize/over width.

The everyday tractor trailers you see on the highways are perfectly legal on US 40.
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seicer

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #448 on: January 14, 2019, 12:51:49 PM »

I was about to chime in with that, too. There are no signs that I could find anywhere for any of the routes mentioned, and having such a restriction is common because of the towns it passes through and the beforementioned bridge. Not a big deal.
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PHLBOS

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #449 on: January 14, 2019, 12:52:19 PM »

There isn't a truck ban on US 40.  The link above is for oversized/overweight trucks, which there are extremely few of.  They usually have a banner stating oversize/over width.

The everyday tractor trailers you see on the highways are perfectly legal on US 40.
That's what I thought.
__________________________________

Speak Out: U.S. 301 opens

Quote from: Delaware State News Article
$4 is the toll at the Delaware/Maryland state line for using I-95 which is about the same length from state line to state line (Maryland to Pennsylvania) And you can easily avoid that toll, just like you can on this road. Brian P Slattery
He clearly isn't familiar with the area; particularly the Warwick, MD side.  Yes. there's a shun-pike route (except for thru-trucks) with no traffic signals but portions, mainly Strawberry Lane/Wilson St. & Sassafrass Rd. are very narrow two-lane roads w/no shoulders.
___________________________________

In case anyone's interested, here's DelDOT's Official Toll Calculator for US 301.

In a nutshell, northbound travelers from MD are paying the full-toll rate ($4 E-ZPass/$5.60 Toll-By-Plate) regardless of where one exits off 301.
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