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Author Topic: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware  (Read 58708 times)

Beltway

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #525 on: March 06, 2019, 01:22:45 AM »

Troopers In Delaware, Maryland Target Commercial Vehicles Bypassing New Route 301 Toll Road
Can't file a lawsuit until you're charged with something for evading the toll. It'll happen by the end of the year, I imagine.

The article is heavily slanted toward suggesting a violation for "evading the toll", when in fact the phrase "keep commercial vehicles from traveling on roadways that are prohibited for their use" is the actual violation being charged, IOW local roads not designed for large trucks, with large trucks prohibited.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #526 on: March 06, 2019, 10:24:09 AM »

I think truckers will figure out a suitable alternative if they need it enough.  I'm not sure it's a valid truck route but I think this could be suitable:

Heading north from US 301:
MD 313, MD 213, MD 282, DE 299, DE 71, DE 896
Or they could just use MD 213 up to US 40. 
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #527 on: March 06, 2019, 11:28:38 AM »

Were trucks prohibited on those local routes before the toll road was opened?
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #528 on: March 06, 2019, 11:35:09 AM »

Were trucks prohibited on those local routes before the toll road was opened?

With the exception of former US 301, yes. Prior to the toll road, trucks were only allowed on then-current 301.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #529 on: March 06, 2019, 11:46:02 AM »

Were trucks prohibited on those local routes before the toll road was opened?

With the exception of former US 301, yes. Prior to the toll road, trucks were only allowed on then-current 301.
As previously stated many posts back, had the new road been built parallel to the old route at the state line rather than placed over such; those smaller local roads would not be seeing the surge in through-truck traffic.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #530 on: March 06, 2019, 04:57:56 PM »

During the two day operation, 85 commercial motor vehicles were stopped and found to be bypassing the tolls. As a result, 85 commercial motor vehicle inspections were conducted. 77 traffic citations and 50 written warnings were issued for various offenses. Two unsafe trucks were put out of service and one driver was placed out of service.

The way this is phrased suggests that drivers didn't get any citations for evading the tolls. The police just gave a vehicle inspection to those trucks of those that they thought were evading the tolls and citing them if or when they failed the inspection.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #531 on: March 06, 2019, 05:12:57 PM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road. The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders). It's slightly out of the way, but it would give a toll-free option instead of forcing a toll. Or, the $3 toll crossing the state line needs to be placed north of Exit 2 (the first exit in Delaware), and allow traffic to exit into town for free.

I'm not a fan of toll roads, though I'm more understanding when they're on new location. Traffic can still take the old route with no issues. That's how the VA-168 relocation here in Chesapeake, VA is. The old route remains a free (and very popular) shunpiking route as it was before the toll road was built. This US 301 bypass was built on new location, but it also upgraded existing roadway, and is configured to not allow traffic to use the old route like before without paying a high state line crossing toll. It should be free until Exit 2, a frontage road is built, or the existing eastern route is improved to standard 2-lane standards and allows trucks. The existing situation is unacceptable, and places a burden on trucks who have to pay $10-14 one-way, and if they commute that route let's say 4 times per day, that's $40-56 per day forced out of their pockets with no legal route to avoid it, and some cannot afford that.
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Beltway

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #532 on: March 06, 2019, 08:28:18 PM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #533 on: March 06, 2019, 09:18:36 PM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
I've also mentioned that the $3 state line toll could be relocated north of Exit 2, and have Exit 2 posted as the Last Exit Before Toll. That interchange has a high capacity, and would handle traffic coming into town, and offer a route to avoid the toll.

Are you suggesting that the current concept (of forcing trucks to pay $10 - $14 tolls, have no way to avoid it, and screw those who cannot afford to pay the toll multiple times per day, screw the truckers who have a burden placed on them, screw the truckers who are loosing their own money having to pay these expensive fines or the expensive toll, and have no option to avoid it) is adequate and should remain in place?

Delaware doesn't have a care for these people. They set the road up in a deceitful manner that forces trucks to drive on the road whether they want to or not, no legal way to avoid it, and hold them hostage to a high toll. And when they make a financial decision that they cannot afford to run through this toll daily or multiple times per day, they choose to take back roads to avoid it, and now they have state police giving them fines for it. The town and the officials complain these truckers need to learn that "they don't have a choice to avoid the toll". That's beyond messed up, and the fact they word it that way offering no solutions is absurd, and frankly this whole setup needs and should be illegal.

So what do you suggest to these truckers? What do you suggest should be done in this situation?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 09:21:21 PM by sprjus4 »
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Beltway

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #534 on: March 06, 2019, 10:22:11 PM »

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?
All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
I've also mentioned that the $3 state line toll could be relocated north of Exit 2, and have Exit 2 posted as the Last Exit Before Toll. That interchange has a high capacity, and would handle traffic coming into town, and offer a route to avoid the toll.

It could, but then the first 3.1 miles of the newly built US-301 tollroad would have no toll to pay for that segment.

Are you suggesting that the current concept (of forcing trucks to pay $10 - $14 tolls, have no way to avoid it, and screw those who cannot afford to pay the toll multiple times per day, screw the truckers who have a burden placed on them, screw the truckers who are loosing their own money having to pay these expensive fines or the expensive toll, and have no option to avoid it) is adequate and should remain in place?

No, I was just asking some questions about what would be involved to build at least 5 miles of service road that can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic, or upgrade at least 5 miles of local roads to where they can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.

Delaware doesn't have a care for these people. They set the road up in a deceitful manner that forces trucks to drive on the road whether they want to or not, no legal way to avoid it, and hold them hostage to a high toll. And when they make a financial decision that they cannot afford to run through this toll daily or multiple times per day, they choose to take back roads to avoid it, and now they have state police giving them fines for it. The town and the officials complain these truckers need to learn that "they don't have a choice to avoid the toll". That's beyond messed up, and the fact they word it that way offering no solutions is absurd, and frankly this whole setup needs and should be illegal.
So what do you suggest to these truckers? What do you suggest should be done in this situation?

I don't know, that is why I was asking questions.  I don't necessarily think that Delaware was trying to deceive anyone, we just have a situation where a highway was built with toll funding and there is a need to collect tolls including the 3 miles we are questioning.

The problem with the local roads is that they don't have the width or pavement depth to handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #535 on: March 06, 2019, 10:25:32 PM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #536 on: March 06, 2019, 10:26:15 PM »

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?
All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
I've also mentioned that the $3 state line toll could be relocated north of Exit 2, and have Exit 2 posted as the Last Exit Before Toll. That interchange has a high capacity, and would handle traffic coming into town, and offer a route to avoid the toll.

It could, but then the first 3.1 miles of the newly built US-301 tollroad would have no toll to pay for that segment.

Are you suggesting that the current concept (of forcing trucks to pay $10 - $14 tolls, have no way to avoid it, and screw those who cannot afford to pay the toll multiple times per day, screw the truckers who have a burden placed on them, screw the truckers who are loosing their own money having to pay these expensive fines or the expensive toll, and have no option to avoid it) is adequate and should remain in place?

No, I was just asking some questions about what would be involved to build at least 5 miles of service road that can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic, or upgrade at least 5 miles of local roads to where they can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.

Delaware doesn't have a care for these people. They set the road up in a deceitful manner that forces trucks to drive on the road whether they want to or not, no legal way to avoid it, and hold them hostage to a high toll. And when they make a financial decision that they cannot afford to run through this toll daily or multiple times per day, they choose to take back roads to avoid it, and now they have state police giving them fines for it. The town and the officials complain these truckers need to learn that "they don't have a choice to avoid the toll". That's beyond messed up, and the fact they word it that way offering no solutions is absurd, and frankly this whole setup needs and should be illegal.
So what do you suggest to these truckers? What do you suggest should be done in this situation?

I don't know, that is why I was asking questions.  I don't necessarily think that Delaware was trying to deceive anyone, we just have a situation where a highway was built with toll funding and there is a need to collect tolls including the 3 miles we are questioning.

The problem with the local roads is that they don't have the width or pavement depth to handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.
There are no heavy volumes. Did you see that they conducted a full day assessment and caught 88 trucks (or 85)? That's like 5 or 6 an hour.

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #537 on: March 06, 2019, 10:34:13 PM »

You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #538 on: March 06, 2019, 10:47:43 PM »

It could, but then the first 3.1 miles of the newly built US-301 tollroad would have no toll to pay for that segment.
It's happened before. The 2001 relocation of VA-168 as a toll road is free between Exit 10 and Exit 8, and Dominion Blvd only collects tolls from traffic who cross the Veterans Bridge, every other part of the highway is free to all traffic, even though toll financing went into part of that. The West Virginia Turnpike collects tolls at only a few locations, yet it funds the entire roadway. The proposed I-81 tolling in Virginia would only have a few collection points, yet all 325 miles would receive improvements. An almost $1 billion expansion to 6 lanes between Christiansburg and Roanoke wouldn't collect tolls on that segment, even though it would get a massive expansion.

No, I was just asking some questions about what would be involved to build at least 5 miles of service road that can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic, or upgrade at least 5 miles of local roads to where they can handle heavy volumes of large truck traffic.
Less than 5 miles. The old US 301 is open as a frontage road from Middletown to the state line, but terminates. The only way to reach it is to take roads prohibited to trucks currently, which is the issue in discussion here. A two mile extension would be required on the Maryland side, plus about 3/4 mile of existing 1.5 lane road would need to be improved.

I don't know, that is why I was asking questions.  I don't necessarily think that Delaware was trying to deceive anyone, we just have a situation where a highway was built with toll funding and there is a need to collect tolls including the 3 miles we are questioning.
But here's the issue. US 301 was four-lane divided until the state line where it suddenly went to two-lanes. About 2 miles of new freeway was built between the state line and Exit 2. They specifically designed the highway so you would be forced to ride 2 miles of the new toll road, and they located the most expensive toll collection ($3 for cars / almost $10 for trucks) at that point. Tolls should be collected for those who chose to ride the bypass, I agree with that. But when the design forces you onto the new roadway, and forces you through the most expensive collection point, and THEN let's you exit the bypass to still end up going into town, it's deceitful. Why should you have to pay a high toll to enter Delaware, to still go through town, yet to actually bypass the town and get a nice smooth ride, it's a cheap toll? The people riding the bypass fully should have to pay that expensive toll, not the people riding two miles and exiting at Exit 2.

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
The only thing is, not every truck is going to divert. Plenty are fine with paying the hefty toll, and moving on with their day. Note the police trap set up last week only got 80 trucks in one day, most chose to use the new road. The whole point is options should be available for everyone, including trucks. I think the best solution as I've described above should be to eliminate tolling until Exit 2, then relocate the $3 / $9 state line collection toll north of this interchange. No massive road improvements would be needed in a solution like this, as those roads are well designed to carry truck traffic if a massive influx were to occur.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 10:57:34 PM by sprjus4 »
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #539 on: March 06, 2019, 10:58:01 PM »

You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Source?

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #540 on: March 06, 2019, 11:26:07 PM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I havenít been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.


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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #541 on: March 06, 2019, 11:29:06 PM »

The ramp on De-1 was added before the toll going southbound. So they can easily do the same with the 301. Did they add the ramp on SB 1 before the toll because of the amount of High authority people living below the canal? Or citizens ties with the officials? I smell corruption.


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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #542 on: March 06, 2019, 11:44:07 PM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I havenít been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.



I have no idea who you're accusing of what, but I cited the volumes and I've observed the new freeway. Have you?

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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #543 on: March 06, 2019, 11:51:58 PM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I havenít been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.



I have no idea who you're accusing of what, but I cited the volumes and I've observed the new freeway. Have you?
From conversations we had before, you seem to think traffic is not bad in New Castle Delaware, do I need to cite conversations from before? Im just saying, it seems like you havenít been in Delaware for years the way you speak about the roads. You are a very knowledgeable person but some you say is false. & I donít have to see the road I used to do newspaper delivery in middletown from 2am to 6am & then I would be in middletown alot, So I know how the traffic flows down there & itís getting heavier every year. So please double down on your facts & I was clearly to talking to you.


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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #544 on: March 07, 2019, 12:33:38 AM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I havenít been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.



I have no idea who you're accusing of what, but I cited the volumes and I've observed the new freeway. Have you?
From conversations we had before, you seem to think traffic is not bad in New Castle Delaware, do I need to cite conversations from before?
It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #545 on: March 07, 2019, 12:43:26 AM »

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Source?

I said I can't see below the surface of the pavement. 

I suppose I could go out there and take a core sample?
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U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #546 on: March 07, 2019, 12:45:07 AM »

I understand the local routes are not designed for trucks. My issue here - there's no permitted shunpiking route for trucks. It's either pay the $10+ one-way toll, get a hefty fine, or avoid the area (which isn't an option for a lot). As PHLBOS mentioned, a frontage road should've been constructed paralleling the toll road.

That would be expensive to build and what if it and the southernmost interchange ramps became choked with trucks?

The existing frontage road which was where US 301 originally tied into Maryland's 4-lane one, needs to be extended down to the last free exit. Either this, or the eastern shunpiking route (which is a narrow 1.5 lane roadway and does not pass through a small community) should be widened to a standard 2-lane rural roadway (12 foot lanes, 4 or 10 foot paved shoulders).

That would also be an expensive project to build and what if it became choked with trucks?

All these on top of what was already spent to build the US-301 freeway.
You aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.
Alps have you been in Delaware in the last 5 years? Why do you think Delaware is still a rural place? Between Wilmington & Middletown traffic & construction has boomed. I see many many many trucks on the road especially on 896,40,13,1 & I assume the 301, I havenít been on it yet. But old 301 used to be packed with trucks. I see traffic on the roads till about 12, compared to years ago when the roads would die down around 10-11. Please stop being so Nimby.



I have no idea who you're accusing of what, but I cited the volumes and I've observed the new freeway. Have you?
From conversations we had before, you seem to think traffic is not bad in New Castle Delaware, do I need to cite conversations from before?
It isn't to the extent that you frequently complain about, and most certainly not at the south end of the US 301 project heading into rural Cecil and Kent Counties in MD.
We are talking about the Delaware side of the problem, do not put words in my mouth. & isnít the point of this forum to have friendly debates about problems ? I like to bring up concepts that are wild or should have, could have been built. So excuse me If I like to have a debate with people that are in a forum that LIKE to do that. Maryland has nothing to do With Delaware, Middletown & ďRural Cecil & Kent Counties in MDĒ are two EXTREMELY different places. So for you to say

[Alps]-ďYou aren't familiar with the area. There aren't that many trucks or traffic of any kind.Ē

Is completely false & shows me that you do not live in Delaware anymore & have not been im Delaware for more than 5 minutes. Or you just go everywhere on a jet-ski or boat thru the canal. Either way traffic is getting worse & the urbanization is moving south.

(Edit @ 1:07 am)The same for you as well Alex, I respect you but just because youíre an admin that doesnít mean im gonna bow down to you like you are supreme lord.


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« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 01:08:12 AM by Tonytone »
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #547 on: March 07, 2019, 01:00:53 AM »

I don't know, that is why I was asking questions.  I don't necessarily think that Delaware was trying to deceive anyone, we just have a situation where a highway was built with toll funding and there is a need to collect tolls including the 3 miles we are questioning.
But here's the issue. US 301 was four-lane divided until the state line where it suddenly went to two-lanes. About 2 miles of new freeway was built between the state line and Exit 2. They specifically designed the highway so you would be forced to ride 2 miles of the new toll road, and they located the most expensive toll collection ($3 for cars / almost $10 for trucks) at that point. Tolls should be collected for those who chose to ride the bypass, I agree with that. But when the design forces you onto the new roadway, and forces you through the most expensive collection point, and THEN let's you exit the bypass to still end up going into town, it's deceitful. Why should you have to pay a high toll to enter Delaware, to still go through town, yet to actually bypass the town and get a nice smooth ride, it's a cheap toll? The people riding the bypass fully should have to pay that expensive toll, not the people riding two miles and exiting at Exit 2.

What is the response from DelDOT when queried about this configuration issue?
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #548 on: March 07, 2019, 06:39:37 AM »

(Edit @ 1:07 am)The same for you as well Alex, I respect you but just because youíre an admin that doesnít mean im gonna bow down to you like you are supreme lord.

Alex4897 is not forum owner Alex.
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Re: U.S. 301 toll road project in Delaware
« Reply #549 on: March 07, 2019, 08:18:49 AM »

I am familiar with the area.  AADT about 11,500 on US-301 and 10% large truck volume.  If all those trucks diverted to the local road there would be problems, based on the width of the road as well as the pavement design; well I can't see below the surface but it looks like a lightly built secondary road.
Source?

I said I can't see below the surface of the pavement. 

I suppose I could go out there and take a core sample?

Alps was asking for the source of your AADT stat, Beltway.

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