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Author Topic: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach  (Read 13099 times)

WillWeaverRVA

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2016, 01:05:26 PM »

According to GSV, there is one on the eastbound side here between the "bump" and Oceanfront.

There's another one eastbound just past the Laskin/Birdneck intersection - it's obscured by trees on GSV. This one appears to be the last US 58 reassurance prior to the Oceanfront.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2016, 04:10:08 PM »

According to GSV, there is one on the eastbound side here between the "bump" and Oceanfront.

There's another one eastbound just past the Laskin/Birdneck intersection - it's obscured by trees on GSV. This one appears to be the last US 58 reassurance prior to the Oceanfront.

I will take your word on that - I suspect you are in Virginia Beach much more frequently than I.
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WillWeaverRVA

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2016, 09:37:19 AM »

According to GSV, there is one on the eastbound side here between the "bump" and Oceanfront.

There's another one eastbound just past the Laskin/Birdneck intersection - it's obscured by trees on GSV. This one appears to be the last US 58 reassurance prior to the Oceanfront.

I will take your word on that - I suspect you are in Virginia Beach much more frequently than I.

Actually, I'm not there very often, but I just forgot to link to the GSV image of it. :P

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8549535,-75.9948525,3a,37.5y,85.33h,86.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFxtVz8cFvwgKymSkQV0D7Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2016, 08:45:19 PM »

...It used to be that route numbers on roads in Virginia Beach were as good as in Fairfax County (no secondary system roads in Virginia Beach, of course), but now they seem to be neglecting primary system route number signs much like Falls Church and Alexandria and other municipalities.
Are there any other state DOTs that delegate such a high level of responsibility to municipalities?
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cpzilliacus

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2016, 11:30:06 PM »

...It used to be that route numbers on roads in Virginia Beach were as good as in Fairfax County (no secondary system roads in Virginia Beach, of course), but now they seem to be neglecting primary system route number signs much like Falls Church and Alexandria and other municipalities.
Are there any other state DOTs that delegate such a high level of responsibility to municipalities?

Maryland does - to its one independent city, Baltimore.

New York does - to New York City.
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mariethefoxy

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roadman65

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2016, 04:09:38 AM »

Quote
You figure with it being a tourist area, that the city would sign all the US and Secondary routes at least near the oceanfront.

Not really necessary, contrary to some belief.  Most tourists use 264 to get to the Oceanfront, which is well signed.  Once on the Oceanfront, route numbers aren't really necessary because you're only dealing with Atlantic Ave, Pacific Ave, and the numbered streets that begin at Rudee Inlet.  If people can't figure that simple of a street grid system out, they probably shouldn't be driving in the first place.

Quote
Norfolk does a poor job of signing US 60 through the junction of VA 168 now that you have to zig zag due to that continuous curb preventing you from making that left right after the VA 168 merge.

Unless signs have gone missing since they made the change (about a dozen years ago), I would disagree with this.  Signage as recently as 2 years ago made it pretty clear where you had to turn to continue on WB 60.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9575387,-76.255692,3a,75y,328.75h,81.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1seLRYLIj8QuSAdKhaDs6ldQ!2e0!5s20150901T000000!7i13312!8i6656

I only see a sign for I-64.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9570725,-76.2569934,3a,75y,238.1h,69.7t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDCUrkwz8iyUJBDRmzSJLIQ!2e0!5s20150901T000000!7i13312!8i6656

However Mason Creek Road does have something, even if its erroneous. 

Still overall the signage sucks.  No mention of junctioning VA 168 and going the other way they never replaced the overhead assembly telling EB US 60 to exit itself.  Yes the ground mounted erroneous VA 60 shield does do something, but still not 100 percent IMO.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2016, 09:01:07 PM »

Still overall the signage sucks.  No mention of junctioning VA 168 and going the other way they never replaced the overhead assembly telling EB US 60 to exit itself.  Yes the ground mounted erroneous VA 60 shield does do something, but still not 100 percent IMO.

This seems to be more and more of a problem in independent cities (and some towns) across Virginia.  The signage of primary system highways in some Virginia cities is beyond awful, with Virginia and U.S. route road signs are missing for long distances (including turns), but in other municipalities, the signage is great. 
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Thing 342

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2016, 09:16:59 PM »

Still overall the signage sucks.  No mention of junctioning VA 168 and going the other way they never replaced the overhead assembly telling EB US 60 to exit itself.  Yes the ground mounted erroneous VA 60 shield does do something, but still not 100 percent IMO.

This seems to be more and more of a problem in independent cities (and some towns) across Virginia.  The signage of primary system highways in some Virginia cities is beyond awful, with Virginia and U.S. route road signs are missing for long distances (including turns), but in other municipalities, the signage is great.
I'd argue that even the best signage in Norfolk or Virginia Beach is still worse than most of the stuff in the "Worst of Road Signs" thread.
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ekt8750

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2016, 12:07:57 PM »

Still overall the signage sucks.  No mention of junctioning VA 168 and going the other way they never replaced the overhead assembly telling EB US 60 to exit itself.  Yes the ground mounted erroneous VA 60 shield does do something, but still not 100 percent IMO.

This seems to be more and more of a problem in independent cities (and some towns) across Virginia.  The signage of primary system highways in some Virginia cities is beyond awful, with Virginia and U.S. route road signs are missing for long distances (including turns), but in other municipalities, the signage is great.

Philly has this issue as well with not properly signing state and US routes within the city. Reassurance signs are few and far between esp with routes that go through more sketchy neighborhoods and good luck with turn off signs cause they aren't the most reliable either. The city has gotten better with them recently but it's still bad. You deserve some kind of prize if you can fully navigate US 13 through the city without a GPS and without getting lost.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2016, 01:24:57 PM »

Philly has this issue as well with not properly signing state and US routes within the city. Reassurance signs are few and far between esp with routes that go through more sketchy neighborhoods and good luck with turn off signs cause they aren't the most reliable either. The city has gotten better with them recently but it's still bad. You deserve some kind of prize if you can fully navigate US 13 through the city without a GPS and without getting lost.

The District of Columbia is also very bad in this regard.

Try following U.S. 1, U.S. 1 Alternate (not signed at all in D.C. any longer), U.S. 50 or U.S. 29 across D.C. If you do not know those routes, you are out of luck.   

Getting back to Virginia. crossing the City of Alexandria by way of U.S. 1 only works because there are really no turns required.  Not because it is well signed. 

Va. 338 (Hillwood Avenue) in the City of Falls Church is totally unsigned within its limits.
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mrsman

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2016, 04:55:30 PM »

Well, even though Va Bch should sign their highways better, one can say that the missing signs is not so critical since it is the end of highway 58, 60, and 58 business.  You don't have to be guided through as carefully as if it were a town in the middle of a highway's routing.
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roadman65

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2016, 04:59:51 PM »

Still it would be nice to know where on US 60 you run into both US 58 and US 58 Business.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2016, 06:05:34 PM »

Well, even though Va Bch should sign their highways better, one can say that the missing signs is not so critical since it is the end of highway 58, 60, and 58 business.  You don't have to be guided through as carefully as if it were a town in the middle of a highway's routing.

Yeah, unless your destination is southern Spain, northern Morocco or maybe Gibraltar (and your vehicle is seaworthy), your are probably not going east of Oceanfront.
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mrsman

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2016, 10:48:17 PM »

Well, even though Va Bch should sign their highways better, one can say that the missing signs is not so critical since it is the end of highway 58, 60, and 58 business.  You don't have to be guided through as carefully as if it were a town in the middle of a highway's routing.

Yeah, unless your destination is southern Spain, northern Morocco or maybe Gibraltar (and your vehicle is seaworthy), your are probably not going east of Oceanfront.

I was over in the area just a couple months ago and I don't remember the lack of signing of US 58 or US 60 to be a problem. It was fairly easy to get from VB Blvd or Laskin Street to the shoreline.   

I specifically did want to travel to the east end of US 60 for roadgeeky purposes to denote that I have been at the eastern and western ends of historic US 60.  Growing up in Los Angeles, I have been to many of the historic ends of US 60 many times, whether it is the western end of the Pomona Freeway (now CA-60) or the western end of the San Bernardino Freeway where it runs into US 101.  [I'm sure I've driven over some of the pre-freeway routings of the western terminus as well.] No big mention that the end of US 60 is the end of a national highway that reaches all the way to Arizona in VB, even though there is a mention of Sacramento in Ocean city for US 50.

[As a child, I know that several times I was a passenger along I-10 between Phoenix and LA, so I passed through where US 60 currently ends at I-10, but I doubt that we got off at the US 60 exit for any reason, so I was never on the western end of current US 60.]

I have no plans to clinch the entire US 60, but it is nice to mark the endpoints.

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roadman65

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2016, 11:16:23 PM »

It may not be critical yes, but ideally it should be signed.  IMO it would be nice and consistent as well.
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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2016, 04:24:37 PM »

Detail map of VB can be found here: http://www.virginiadot.org/VDOT/Travel/Virginia_Beach_Map.html

Couple questions about that map: first, just south of the last US 60 shield, the road is shown to bifurcate and then reconnect just north of Rudee Inlet.  What is that supposed to represent?  If it's supposed to be Atlantic and Pacific, it's misleading, because Atlantic does not reconnect at its south end.

Secondly, do VDOT shapefiles still indicate that US 60 goes south on Pacific, then east on 17th, then south on Atlantic to a dead-end at Rudee Inlet?  If so, then this map does not agree with their route description.
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froggie

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2016, 05:22:45 PM »

You have to consider matters of scale.  There is a way to connect from Atlantic back to Pacific via 5th St.  But at the scale of the map that Thing posted, you're not going to get the fine detail of the Oceanfront that you're looking for.
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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2016, 11:02:06 PM »

Detail map of VB can be found here: http://www.virginiadot.org/VDOT/Travel/Virginia_Beach_Map.html

Couple questions about that map: first, just south of the last US 60 shield, the road is shown to bifurcate and then reconnect just north of Rudee Inlet.  What is that supposed to represent?  If it's supposed to be Atlantic and Pacific, it's misleading, because Atlantic does not reconnect at its south end.

Secondly, do VDOT shapefiles still indicate that US 60 goes south on Pacific, then east on 17th, then south on Atlantic to a dead-end at Rudee Inlet?  If so, then this map does not agree with their route description.

Shapefiles still show US 60 using 17th to Atlantic south to the end...

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usends

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2016, 12:40:42 PM »

Shapefiles still show US 60 using 17th to Atlantic south to the end...

Does VDOT maintain its GIS data within the boundaries of independent cities?  Or is that another function to which they do not allocate resources?
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froggie

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2016, 01:55:52 PM »

Presumably they are.  If not yet, they (and all state DOTs for that matter) are required to move in that direction due to MAP-21 requirements, as I learned about at a GIS conference 2 years ago.
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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2016, 05:23:06 PM »

Presumably they are...
Well, let me put it this way: are there any examples demonstrating that VDOT is indeed updating their data for independent cities?  The examples I'm aware of suggest that they are not updating it with respect to recent changes in how the highways are signed.  And even not-so-recent changes: VA Beach, Norfolk, Fredericksburg, Winchester...
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dvferyance

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2016, 05:19:33 PM »

I don't recall US 58 ever being signed at the end by Neptune Park. US 60 isn't signed there either.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2016, 05:55:37 PM »

Should they be?
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Avalanchez71

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Re: End of US 58 in Virginia Beach
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2016, 06:44:04 PM »

Why don't you just ask the Virginia Beach Public Works Department or whatever entity for the city maintains the roadways and ask about the road signage.  It would be interesting to see what they have to say.
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