Burger King’s next conquest: Hot dog king

[jeffandnicole]

And has any other burger chain sold hot dogs on the side? I can think of Hardees/Carl Jr's, but that's just about it.

Most notably, Five Guys.

Several regional chains in Quebec (Lafleur, for example) also sell hot dogs.

Indeed. Valentine, Lafleur, Ashton, La Belle Province, Harvey's, even A&W serve the good ol' smokie in a rolley. Their secret? The two basic ingredients are cooked and preserved with steam.

They come in multiple variety, depending on the chain

• "Michigan" hot dog : covered with spaghetti sauce
  
• "du Lac" hot dog : euro-style hot-dog, with sauerkraut, mayo and fries (much alike to Cleveland's Polish Boy)
  
• "Expo" hot dog : with cheese, roasted bell pepper and onions with fresh tomato
  
• "Supreme" or "Whistle" dog : with bacon and cheese

Gotta say I never even considered having a hot dog with mayo on it!

The other toppings aren't too unusual for a hot dog someone wants to call fancy and thus charge $5 for.

[busman_49]

I actually hate lettuce and tomato on a burger and put ketchup and mustard on hot dogs.

I'll go sit in the corner.

Rarely will I put anything other than mustard & ketchup on my burger

Also, rarely will I put ANYTHING on my hot dogs (unless I have a hankering for a chili dog)

[webfil]

The other toppings aren't too unusual for a hot dog someone wants to call fancy and thus charge $5 for.

Plain hot dogs are rather cheap around here (0,69-1,49$ CAN depending whether it is steamed or toasted).  The whistle dog, the most expensive fancy dog I listed, is sold under 4$. A Michigan plate (1 dog + fries on the side) is generally sold sold for 4-5$ CAN.

Pubs sell real "fancy", bavarian-style hot dogs (fresh bun or baguette, european sausage (klobasa or bratwurst), sauerkraut and Dijon mustard) for a mere 5$.

[TravelingBethelite]

I actually hate lettuce and tomato on a burger and put ketchup and mustard on hot dogs.

I'll go sit in the corner.

Rarely will I put anything other than mustard & ketchup on my burger

Also, rarely will I put ANYTHING on my hot dogs (unless I have a hankering for a chili dog)

You two aren't the only ones. I'm on that bandwagon too. 

[freebrickproductions]

I don't even eat Hot Dogs. I prefer Turkey Dogs, in all honesty.

[Pete from Boston]

Those are worse than *gulp* ketchup.

So just 'mustard'* for you right?

I'll reiterate what I said above that a hot dog is bland and rather textureless (only the skin of the wiener has some resistance) and needs some decent toppings with a range of flavours complementing each other, or a different sausage, to make it respectable as some gastronomic marvel where putting ketchup on it is criminal.

What kind of lousy hot dogs do you guys have that they have to be so hidden?  I have always maintained, and the best hot dog places live up to this standard, that if your hot dog isn't already good on its own, the condiments don't matter. 

Up here I like Pearls, because they are not timidly spiced like those of Kayem, the other big local manufacturer, are.  I can also be perfectly content with a Nathan's. If your hot dog is overly reliant on it's toppings for its flavor, you should indeed be replacing it with a different sausage.

I happen to just not agree that sugary sauce like ketchup contributes to what makes a good hot dog. The Greek-influenced chili sauce that is common in parts of the Northeast and Great Lakes region is about as sweet as I like anything on my hot dog.  Indeed, I know of no place in this part of the world where a hot dog ordered "all the way" includes any ketchup. 

[brownpelican]

I'll stick with Racetrac for my hot dogs.

[brownpelican]

I don't even eat Hot Dogs. I prefer Turkey Dogs, in all honesty.

Chicken or beef hot dogs for me.

[english si]

What kind of lousy hot dogs do you guys have that they have to be so hidden?

Ones with star-spangled banners all over the packaging. And the hot dogs I've had in America all needed the condiments they came with (other than the cheese dog, which would have been much better without the whizz).

It's not that they have to be hidden (condiments, in their nature, shouldn't be to hide the main food*, but compliment it), it's that the idea that they are so good to be above putting ketchup (which is not to my taste either) on is laughable. They are far from gastronomical marvels, with no balance in flavours, little textural variety, etc. Condiments are therefore not sacrilege, nor unnecessary. Ketchup gives something, but (I agree) isn't great - the sweetness of American bread (esp hot dog buns) means there's little need for the sweetness of ketchup, the relative lack of tartness from the vinegar (esp in American ketchup, which is sweeter and less vinegary than over here IIRC) doesn't cut through it, etc.

Hot Dog area pride is all about "what condiments are put on it" and most of them are manifold (though typically don't include ketchup) - because the Hot Dog is very plain. It takes the plainest sausage of all and puts in a bun of bread designed to keep rather than taste good.

I have always maintained, and the best hot dog places live up to this standard, that if your hot dog isn't already good on its own, the condiments don't matter.

Certainly if your hot dog itself is crap, then no amount of condiments will save it, but that doesn't mean that condiments aren't important in a hot dog. After all, you are adamantly opposed to ketchup (and with good reason) as it does little to help a hot dog become better.

If your hot dog is overly reliant on it's toppings for its flavor, you should indeed be replacing it with a different sausage.

But then does it not cease to be a hot dog, but is rather a sausage-in-a-bun? A hot dog has to be some sort of boiled sausage with very finely ground meat - a frankenfurter, or similar style - at least in British English. The lack of texture** and flavour of such a sausage needs something to lift it.

I happen to just not agree that sugary sauce like ketchup contributes to what makes a good hot dog.

I do too, but ketchup on a hot dog is still an improvement over a plain one. You also had a go at much more complimentary condiments, considering them worse than ketchup.

*I call that the French approach - there's a reason why the French elite find British food (even of the highest quality) bland and simple - our elites (and their rural plebs - which is probably where the snobbery comes in) have always had access to fresh ingredients and could make a decently balanced dish with four or five ingredients, whereas their elites had centuries of crap ingredients (somewhat for the same reasons that Versailles had aristocrats sleeping on the floor, pooping in corridors, etc) and made over-elaborate sauces to hide the low quality. British cuisine is considered rubbish because rationing and urbanisation and poor preservation techniques made ingredient quality poor (and when we took the Gallic approach of hiding it, we went Indian-esque, so it isn't considered British) and so stuff that works with decent ingredients became bland and tasteless, though has been re-established as quality food in the last 10-15 years.
**I should point out that Germanic sausages of the sort one would eat hot (rather than charcuterie) use very finely minced meat, whereas Britiannic sausages use a coarser grain and you can usually see the additional flavourings, making something with a bit of roughness.

[Katavia]

I actually hate lettuce and tomato on a burger and put ketchup and mustard on hot dogs.

I'll go sit in the corner.

Rarely will I put anything other than mustard & ketchup on my burger

Also, rarely will I put ANYTHING on my hot dogs (unless I have a hankering for a chili dog)

I put ketchup and mayo on my hot dogs 

[spooky]

Ketchup on hot dogs is for children.

[Pete from Boston]

What kind of lousy hot dogs do you guys have that they have to be so hidden?

Ones with star-spangled banners all over the packaging. And the hot dogs I've had in America all needed the condiments they came with (other than the cheese dog, which would have been much better without the whizz).

It's not that they have to be hidden (condiments, in their nature, shouldn't be to hide the main food*, but compliment it), it's that the idea that they are so good to be above putting ketchup (which is not to my taste either) on is laughable. They are far from gastronomical marvels, with no balance in flavours, little textural variety, etc. Condiments are therefore not sacrilege, nor unnecessary. Ketchup gives something, but (I agree) isn't great - the sweetness of American bread (esp hot dog buns) means there's little need for the sweetness of ketchup, the relative lack of tartness from the vinegar (esp in American ketchup, which is sweeter and less vinegary than over here IIRC) doesn't cut through it, etc.

Hot Dog area pride is all about "what condiments are put on it" and most of them are manifold (though typically don't include ketchup) - because the Hot Dog is very plain. It takes the plainest sausage of all and puts in a bun of bread designed to keep rather than taste good.

I have always maintained, and the best hot dog places live up to this standard, that if your hot dog isn't already good on its own, the condiments don't matter.

Certainly if your hot dog itself is crap, then no amount of condiments will save it, but that doesn't mean that condiments aren't important in a hot dog. After all, you are adamantly opposed to ketchup (and with good reason) as it does little to help a hot dog become better.

If your hot dog is overly reliant on it's toppings for its flavor, you should indeed be replacing it with a different sausage.

But then does it not cease to be a hot dog, but is rather a sausage-in-a-bun? A hot dog has to be some sort of boiled sausage with very finely ground meat - a frankenfurter, or similar style - at least in British English. The lack of texture** and flavour of such a sausage needs something to lift it.

I happen to just not agree that sugary sauce like ketchup contributes to what makes a good hot dog.

I do too, but ketchup on a hot dog is still an improvement over a plain one. You also had a go at much more complimentary condiments, considering them worse than ketchup.

*I call that the French approach - there's a reason why the French elite find British food (even of the highest quality) bland and simple - our elites (and their rural plebs - which is probably where the snobbery comes in) have always had access to fresh ingredients and could make a decently balanced dish with four or five ingredients, whereas their elites had centuries of crap ingredients (somewhat for the same reasons that Versailles had aristocrats sleeping on the floor, pooping in corridors, etc) and made over-elaborate sauces to hide the low quality. British cuisine is considered rubbish because rationing and urbanisation and poor preservation techniques made ingredient quality poor (and when we took the Gallic approach of hiding it, we went Indian-esque, so it isn't considered British) and so stuff that works with decent ingredients became bland and tasteless, though has been re-established as quality food in the last 10-15 years.
**I should point out that Germanic sausages of the sort one would eat hot (rather than charcuterie) use very finely minced meat, whereas Britiannic sausages use a coarser grain and you can usually see the additional flavourings, making something with a bit of roughness.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. 

I still maintain that if you go to a lot of hot dog places and try a lot of hot dogs, you're going to find that the best ones use a much higher grade of hotdog then what you see in an Oscar Meyer ten pack.  Even a Nathan's is a world better than the low end of the pack.

When I said "different sausage," I was using your word (sausage) but meaning you should be using a better brand of hot dog.

Speaking of, you're the only one saying "gastronomic marvels."  The world of food (at least the non-kid world) is not divided into "gastronomic marvel" and "could really use some ketchup," regardless of what I think.

[english si]

I still maintain that if you go to a lot of hot dog places and try a lot of hot dogs,

Yeah, sure, travel 3000 miles to sample some sausages designed to be as bland and textureless as possible so you don't take offence at the cheap cuts of meat used to make them. I can do that from here, despite a lack of hot dog places.

Hot Dogs places don't exist here as are either eaten only as cheap sustenance (and always with onions, ketchup and mustard not only offered, but almost recommended) and there's more tasty options on sale at similar prices, or as fairly expensive premium posh products where what you are really buying is posh toppings as something tasty with a hotdog to fill you up. It is telling that even Britain in the 60s, with its notoriously bland tastebuds, couldn't deal with a plain hotdog without needing something to give it some taste. No wonder the kebab and burger took off in much bigger ways - they are typically better conduits for condiments.

you're going to find that the best ones use a much higher grade of hotdog then what you see in an Oscar Meyer ten pack.

Who is Oscar Meyer? No wait, I don't want to know

Even a Nathan's is a world better than the low end of the pack.

I'm talking weiners selling at $2 a sausage uncooked here, not just the cheap and nasty stuff. The issue is the type of sausage, not the brand and quality.

And even premium top end butchers selling their award winning sausages in buns put onions, etc on offer, because they understand that - while their sausages are the best, full of flavour and texture, you still have a very monochromatic meal without other things to go with it.

When I said "different sausage," I was using your word (sausage) but meaning you should be using a better brand of hot dog.

The issue isn't brand here - it is that the type of sausage is designed to carry as little flavour and texture as possible. The hot dog is designed to be cheap-as-possible sustenance that is designed to be a blank slate of nutrition for the customer to flavour how they want, hence why the sale of them is mostly about the condiments on offer (though granted the assurance of quality ingredients plays a part too).

Look at how little McDonalds or Burger King care about the beef itself - other than assuring you that their patties are made entirely of decent meat - what they are selling is the cooking method and the toppings. A burger is a burger, so to speak, and the marketing has to be about what toppings come with it to make it taste good.

Speaking of, you're the only one saying "gastronomic marvels."

Yes, in the context of hot dogs being at the total opposite end of the spectrum.

How about I take the goalpost of "worth eating for more than the nutritional value - ie for the enjoyment of it". A hot dog without condiments doesn't cross that line as it is simply shaped tasteless mush (and is designed to be). It doesn't have to be a gastronomic marvel, but if I'm going to eat it, I kind of want it to be an enjoyable experience, rather than mere processing.

The world of food (at least the non-kid world) is not divided into "gastronomic marvel" and "could really use some ketchup," regardless of what I think.

Of course not, but the world of food very clearly puts the hot dog in the latter category (though obviously, as you and I agree, ketchup is really not a decent condiment for the job, with almost anything else being better).

[Pete from Boston]

Wow, I guess "agree to disagree" doesn't translate across the waters.

I enjoy the deliciousness of a good hot dog. Lots of other folks here do too.  I don't understand what the argument is, but clearly the British have no interest in our enjoyment therein.  No problem.

[Darkchylde]

I'll stick with Racetrac for my hot dogs.

I used to love those. Pity there's no Racetracs up here. QuikTrip's dogs are pretty good though if you like Racetrac ones.

[roadman]

Best thing for hot dogs - celery salt.  Nothing else comes close.

[Pete from Boston]

Best thing for hot dogs - celery salt.  Nothing else comes close.

Big in New Jersey. I don't see it much up here. I agree, it adds a nice zest.

[vdeane]

Who is Oscar Meyer? No wait, I don't want to know

Oscar Mayer is THE brand of hot dogs in the US.  They also make bologna, bacon, ham, and Lunchables.

[Rothman]

Wow, I guess "agree to disagree" doesn't translate across the waters.

I enjoy the deliciousness of a good hot dog. Lots of other folks here do too.  I don't understand what the argument is, but clearly the British have no interest in our enjoyment therein.  No problem.

Given the state of British cuisine, he's throwing stones when he has a big ol' glass house.

[wanderer2575]

A discourse on the ketchup-on-a-hot-dog debate:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/679/why-is-there-no-ketchup-on-a-properly-made-hot-dog

I haven't tried Burger King's offerings, but I note from their own marketing photos (versus what actually is slapped together in a store) that the condiment proportions seem typical:  Two-ounce protein slathered with four ounces of condiments.  McDonalds is even worse.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

A discourse on the ketchup-on-a-hot-dog debate:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/679/why-is-there-no-ketchup-on-a-properly-made-hot-dog

On the south side of the 49th we have our own organization called the National Hot Dog and Sausage Council that makes similar claims. Yes, the NHDSC is real.

http://www.hot-dog.org/culture/hot-dog-etiquette

Don't...
Use ketchup on your hot dog after the age of 18.Mustard, relish, onions, cheese and chili are acceptable.

[NJRoadfan]

Those who have bland hot dogs obviously haven't been to NJ. You can get them every which way you want (Jimmy Buff's anyone?) Plus we have a wider variety available at grocery stores like hometown favorite Best's beef franks and Thumann's. If that isn't your thing, we have plenty of butchers that sell cased meat as well if you want that extra crunch.

[Pete from Boston]

Those who have bland hot dogs obviously haven't been to NJ. You can get them every which way you want (Jimmy Buff's anyone?) Plus we have a wider variety available at grocery stores like hometown favorite Best's beef franks and Thumann's. If that isn't your thing, we have plenty of butchers that sell cased meat as well if you want that extra crunch.

Thank you.  It's like anything else, when you have a lot of them you notice the standouts.

I used to buy some obscure "German" variety (quotes because I have no idea why they called it German) at Karl Ehmer's, the German-American butcher chain in the New York area.  They had a nice seasoning to them.  The Hillsdale Karl Ehmer in your link has a hot dog stand out front 6 days a week that sells them.

I remember Thumann's well.  We used to get them sold loose in the deli case.  I can almost taste them from memory.

[Pete from Boston]

Took the plunge.  Ate one today in a moment of weakness.  Pretty timid, to no surprise.

[Rothman]

Took the plunge.  Ate one today in a moment of weakness.  Pretty timid, to no surprise.

How anticlimactic.