I-95/PA Turnpike Affecting Routes?

[jcn]

You know how because I-95 has a gap in its route, many people along the east coast get off 95 for a bit by using the Delaware Memorial Bridge and continuing onto the NJ Turnpike from there.  But, very soon 95 will become continuous finally by building an interchange at the PA Turnpike where 95 will cross over the Turnpike Bridge and then meet up with the NJ Turnpike.  What I would like to know is this.  For those of you who use the Delaware Memorial Bridge frequently when traveling from Baltimore/Washington and points south to New York and points north or vice versa, when the interchange is complete, do you plan to continue using the Del. Mem. Bridge or stay on 95 and drive through Philly.  Each route will have its own pros and cons. 

I've created a poll on this question.

[1995hoo]

Depends on whether I'm hungry. Cheesesteaks decide the issue.

[jwolfer]

Depends on traffic... But NJTP will generally move faster than driving through Center City Philadelphia.. Less miles as well.. So the non-roadgeek, GPS dependent masses will go wherever GPS tells them

[jcn]

Seeing that the Del. Mem. Br. route is unanimously winning, here's something I would like to point out.  Most people driving along the east coast, when they get to the Balt/Wash area, they tend to stay on 95 even though using 895 and 295 provides less mileage, and GPS's generally encourage people to use those routes, and also 95 runs closer to downtown Baltimore.  So, if people generally stay on 95 in the Balt/Wash area despite it being more miles and more busier, why wouldn't they do the exact same thing in the Philly area once the interchange is complete and 95 becomes continuous.  Like what's the difference between staying on 95 in the Balt/Wash area and staying on 95 in the Philly area (when it becomes continuous), when in both of these locations, staying on that route would take more time.

[jp the roadgeek]

Really depends on if I want to stop in Philly.  If I'm going to Delaware and points south, I'll use I-295 south of Bordentown, but I usually avoid the Turnpike altogether (I got stuck in a 2 hour jam on the Turnpike once between New Brunswick and 195 and I swore "never again") by taking the Parkway down to Iselin, then NJ 27 to CR 529 to US 1 to US 130 to US 206 and wind through the Bordentown truck stops (good gas/bathroom/snack stop) and hop on 295 to the Delaware Bridge (Barry Bridge/95/495 if I hear the Delaware is backed up).  If I'm going to Philly, I'll stay on US 1 to I-95 (future 295) and take the Scudders Falls until tolls go up.  Once the 95/PA Turnpike interchange opens (assuming the Scudders Falls is tolled by then), I'll either stay on US 1 through Trenton or take 130 and hook up with the Turnpike Bridge.

As a sidenote, I'll also do the DE 896/DE 4/DE 279/MD 279 toll plaza go-round unless I'm in a severe hurry.

[Alps]

Seeing that the Del. Mem. Br. route is unanimously winning, here's something I would like to point out.  Most people driving along the east coast, when they get to the Balt/Wash area, they tend to stay on 95 even though using 895 and 295 provides less mileage, and GPS's generally encourage people to use those routes, and also 95 runs closer to downtown Baltimore.  So, if people generally stay on 95 in the Balt/Wash area despite it being more miles and more busier, why wouldn't they do the exact same thing in the Philly area once the interchange is complete and 95 becomes continuous.  Like what's the difference between staying on 95 in the Balt/Wash area and staying on 95 in the Philly area (when it becomes continuous), when in both of these locations, staying on that route would take more time.

People are very slow to adapt. They follow 95 because it's a number. You'd be surprised at the number of people who have some idea that I-95 is not continuous in New Jersey. It will take them decades to realize the route connects, and the farther they are from Central Jersey, the longer it will take. Also, as long as the Turnpike is signed for NY and I-95 is signed for Philly, a lot of people will go toward NY and the way they're familiar with. Southbound is even more of a slam-dunk, since I-95 is an exit movement. I don't see a whole lot changing for long-distance patterns. Only commutes will be genuinely affected, with everyone going to Philly from the north dumping onto I-95 instead of the numerous routes currently used.

[74/171FAN]

Seeing that the Del. Mem. Br. route is unanimously winning, here's something I would like to point out.  Most people driving along the east coast, when they get to the Balt/Wash area, they tend to stay on 95 even though using 895 and 295 provides less mileage, and GPS's generally encourage people to use those routes, and also 95 runs closer to downtown Baltimore.  So, if people generally stay on 95 in the Balt/Wash area despite it being more miles and more busier, why wouldn't they do the exact same thing in the Philly area once the interchange is complete and 95 becomes continuous.  Like what's the difference between staying on 95 in the Balt/Wash area and staying on 95 in the Philly area (when it becomes continuous), when in both of these locations, staying on that route would take more time.

People are very slow to adapt. They follow 95 because it's a number. You'd be surprised at the number of people who have some idea that I-95 is not continuous in New Jersey. It will take them decades to realize the route connects, and the farther they are from Central Jersey, the longer it will take. Also, as long as the Turnpike is signed for NY and I-95 is signed for Philly, a lot of people will go toward NY and the way they're familiar with. Southbound is even more of a slam-dunk, since I-95 is an exit movement. I don't see a whole lot changing for long-distance patterns. Only commutes will be genuinely affected, with everyone going to Philly from the north dumping onto I-95 instead of the numerous routes currently used.

I found this out because my parents trusted me as their navigator even back when I was around 10.  The TWC radar map made me think I-95 went from Philly to New York, so I convinced my parents to go through Philly (the only time being there until this past winter-I remembered seeing Lincoln Financial Field even then) and it took a few minutes to realize I-95 ended at US 1 in Trenton.  We ultimately followed US 1 back to I-95/NJTP at I-287 (from what I have concluded).  I have had a hard time living that down, as it was the only time a huge navigation error occurred on my part based on time.

[ixnay]

Seeing that the Del. Mem. Br. route is unanimously winning,

It still is as of this post.  I voted for the DMB.  Whether I'll get on 295 in NJ will depend on my finances and who's driving.  If I were on my own, I'd probably go up 95 at least once out of curiosity.  Maybe even use the PA 413/U.S. 13 combo for old times sake.  I've never been on the PA Tpk. east of U.S. 1 or the inter-turnpike connector (and that includes the bridge.)

ixnay

[jeffandnicole]

Seeing that the Del. Mem. Br. route is unanimously winning, here's something I would like to point out.  Most people driving along the east coast, when they get to the Balt/Wash area, they tend to stay on 95 even though using 895 and 295 provides less mileage, and GPS's generally encourage people to use those routes, and also 95 runs closer to downtown Baltimore.  So, if people generally stay on 95 in the Balt/Wash area despite it being more miles and more busier, why wouldn't they do the exact same thing in the Philly area once the interchange is complete and 95 becomes continuous.  Like what's the difference between staying on 95 in the Balt/Wash area and staying on 95 in the Philly area (when it becomes continuous), when in both of these locations, staying on that route would take more time.

Because you're not asking the right sample group.  There's a few hundred 'roadgeeks' in the country.  There's tens of thousands of people traveling this corridor on a daily basis.  You're asking what we would do compared to what everyone in the world would do.  I can guarantee you that there'll be many people on here taking the signed 95 route to check out the new interchange.  But if we were to do a straight, non-geeking trip from NYC to Baltimore, the NJ Turnpike would be the way to go.

There's going to be 3 groups of people soon: Those following their GPSs, those following the signage for 95, and those that will go the way they have gone for many years.

[bzakharin]

I doubt the signage for 95 will change at the Delaware split, so if anyone is following those signs, they'd be doing so now as well, wondering how to get to NYC. Southbound I can see some confusion from this group.

[odditude]

I usually avoid the Turnpike altogether (I got stuck in a 2 hour jam on the Turnpike once between New Brunswick and 195 and I swore "never again")

no need to punsh yourself like this in the future; with the completion of the Turnpike widening project between exits 6 and 9, the hellish jams at the car/truck lanes merge at 8A are a thing of the past.

on-topic: if i were going from NY to points south of DE or vice-versa, there would be absolutely no reason to stay on 95 unless there's a major issue on on 295 in DE, the Del Mem Br, or the Turnpike south of 6... unless cheesesteaks. (note: cheese fries in a cup + fry fork (the standard method of delivery in Philly) = fantastic car food.)

that being said, i live along current-95/future-295, and it will remain the only practical option for me to reach points south on the west side of the Delaware.

[jemacedo9]

I think one question is:  will the northbound signage at the 95/295 split in DE change when the 95-PA Turnpike link is done?  If not, then I think those who pay attention to signage won't change.

As far as GPS...I can't imagine that the new connections would be faster or shorter distance vs current, compared to using the southern part of the NJ Turnpike, so I can't think GPS directions would change.

[mariethefoxy]

I tried the 195 to 295 to 95 method once, the detouring and Philly area's traffic was not worth the money I saved by not taking the Turnpike all the way to the end and taking the Delaware Memorial Bridge

I'd probably continue to use the Turnpike/Delaware Memorial Bridge to Southern Delaware. Its faster, less traffic, theres places on the side of the road you can get food from or go pee if you need to. (the service plazas)

[bzakharin]

I tried the 195 to 295 to 95 method once, the detouring and Philly area's traffic was not worth the money I saved by not taking the Turnpike all the way to the end and taking the Delaware Memorial Bridge

I'd probably continue to use the Turnpike/Delaware Memorial Bridge to Southern Delaware. Its faster, less traffic, theres places on the side of the road you can get food from or go pee if you need to. (the service plazas)

If you're looking to save money and stay in NJ you can go with 295 and get on the Turnpike at exit 3 (NJ 168), 4 (NJ 73), or 6A (US 130)

[jeffandnicole]

I think one question is:  will the northbound signage at the 95/295 split in DE change when the 95-PA Turnpike link is done?  If not, then I think those who pay attention to signage won't change.

As far as GPS...I can't imagine that the new connections would be faster or shorter distance vs current, compared to using the southern part of the NJ Turnpike, so I can't think GPS directions would change.

I don't think so. The signage is correct as is in its current form.

I tried the 195 to 295 to 95 method once, the detouring and Philly area's traffic was not worth the money I saved by not taking the Turnpike all the way to the end and taking the Delaware Memorial Bridge

I'd probably continue to use the Turnpike/Delaware Memorial Bridge to Southern Delaware. Its faster, less traffic, theres places on the side of the road you can get food from or go pee if you need to. (the service plazas)

If you're looking to save money and stay in NJ you can go with 295 and get on the Turnpike at exit 3 (NJ 168), 4 (NJ 73), or 6A (US 130)

Not 6A. The savings is very little because they're essentially charging you for use of the Turnpike Connector bridge.  Use exit 7 to 295 South, as well as 4 and 3. 7A and 5 work also, although not as convenient.

[vdeane]

The people "following the signs" will almost certainly keep keep taking the Turnpike because that's what they've always done.  If they made the trip before, they probably aren't looking closely at signs anyways.

Plus the signs won't change much.  PA might have interest in a "please don't bypass out state any more, we finally built the interchange" sign, but I guarantee you DE and NJ don't, and NJ's patch on the exit 6 sign keeps falling off anyways.

There is also no way in hell that GPS will route people through Philly.

After that, you basically have just roadgeeks...

[AMLNet49]

As much as I hate mainlines being signed as exits, the NJTP has a financial interest in keeping people on its road. So just like the numerous other cases of interstates leaving a toll system, the NJTP will try to keep the changes to a minimum, simply adding shields to the Exit 6 sign. They will want the newfound continuity of I-95 to be as low-key as possible.

[NJRoadfan]

Not to mention, if you are heading south, staying on the NJ Turnpike to Exit 1 is cheaper than taking Exit 6 plus paying the PA Turnpike barrier toll.

[Alps]

Not to mention, if you are heading south, staying on the NJ Turnpike to Exit 1 is cheaper than taking Exit 6 plus paying the PA Turnpike barrier toll.

Not once you pay in Delaware...

[cpzilliacus]

Depends on traffic... But NJTP will generally move faster than driving through Center City Philadelphia.. Less miles as well.. So the non-roadgeek, GPS dependent masses will go wherever GPS tells them

There's also the matter of (my anticipated) severe congestion on far eastern end of the Pennsylvania Turnpike - from the new I-95 interchange across the Turnpike Bridge over the Delaware River onto the Pennsylvania extension of the New Jersey Turnpike - all of which is two lanes each way between the I-95 interchange on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and the New Jersey end of the bridge (once safely into New Jersey the road is three lanes each way).

Until the Turnpike Bridge is twinned (not expected for many years), I suspect this will be a pretty epic I-95 bottleneck.

[jeffandnicole]

Depends on traffic... But NJTP will generally move faster than driving through Center City Philadelphia.. Less miles as well.. So the non-roadgeek, GPS dependent masses will go wherever GPS tells them

There's also the matter of (my anticipated) severe congestion on far eastern end of the Pennsylvania Turnpike - from the new I-95 interchange across the Turnpike Bridge over the Delaware River onto the Pennsylvania extension of the New Jersey Turnpike - all of which is two lanes each way between the I-95 interchange on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and the New Jersey end of the bridge (once safely into New Jersey the road is three lanes each way).

Until the Turnpike Bridge is twinned (not expected for many years), I suspect this will be a pretty epic I-95 bottleneck.

I can see this going Westbound/Southbound as people will be following the I-95 South signs.  Northbound people are quite conditioned to taking the NJ Turnpike from Delaware, so I don't think it'll be as severe.

For the most part on my travels over the Extension when on 295, there generally isn't a lot of heavy traffic.  This roadway is probably one of the lowest-volume 6 lane roadways we have in NJ.  I've seen it backed up approaching the NJ Turnpike mainline quite frequently during the 6-9 widening, but I can't recall seeing it congested since.  The 4 lane bridge will probably be adequate enough for a little while, and with the plans in place I guess they can push up the current schedule if it became a major issue.

Not to mention, if you are heading south, staying on the NJ Turnpike to Exit 1 is cheaper than taking Exit 6 plus paying the PA Turnpike barrier toll.

Not once you pay in Delaware...

Here's the pricing, Cash (EZ Pass (NJ Turnpike Peak/Off Peak if applicable)):

Let's say you're coming from NYC and getting on at 18E/W:

NJ Turnpike 18E/W to Exit 6: $11.80 (11.80/8.80)
PA Turnpike ORT: $6.75 (5.00)
Total Tolls: $18.55 (16.80/13.80)

NJ Turnpike 18E/W to Exit 1: $13.85 (13.85/10.40)
Del Mem Br: $4.00 (4.00)
Total Tolls: $17.85 (17.85/14.40)

For a cash toll payer using Interchange 6 rather than Interchange 1, it only saves them 70 cents.  EZ Pass Off-Peak is only a 60 cents savings.

As much as I hate mainlines being signed as exits, the NJTP has a financial interest in keeping people on its road. So just like the numerous other cases of interstates leaving a toll system, the NJTP will try to keep the changes to a minimum, simply adding shields to the Exit 6 sign. They will want the newfound continuity of I-95 to be as low-key as possible.

Not quite.  If that was the case, the NJ Turnpike would never shut down its road for any reason.  There's been countless numbers of times the Turnpike closed its roadway at Exit 4 Southbound when Interchange 1 traffic backed up 10 miles or greater.  As shown above, the pricing difference is miniscule, and on a per mile basis, travelers pay quite a bit more when using Exit 6 vs. Exit 1.  It's actually cheaper for motorists going south to use Exit 5 or 4.  Even Exit 3, at current prices, is just 20 cents more, even though one's on the road 20 miles longer!

The new signage at Interchange 6 will prominently show travelers I-95 South utilizes Exit 6, and to use that to get to Philadelphia.

[cpzilliacus]

As much as I hate mainlines being signed as exits, the NJTP has a financial interest in keeping people on its road. So just like the numerous other cases of interstates leaving a toll system, the NJTP will try to keep the changes to a minimum, simply adding shields to the Exit 6 sign. They will want the newfound continuity of I-95 to be as low-key as possible.

I have suggested this before, but you might not have seen it. 

The NJTA (and presumably NJDOT) need to say goodbye to the silly "secret" N.J. 700 designation of their Turnpike from Exits 1 to 6, and sign it as an X95. 

My preference would be for I-895.

[PHLBOS]

As one who lives on near I-95 in PA; for many years for my return trips from New England, I would use Exit 6 (from Exit 11) off the NJ Turnpike, cross over into PA and exit off at the Delaware Valley/US 13 (Exit 358) interchange, then follow US 13 South to PA 413 North and get on I-95 in Bucks County.  The total cost of tolls was cheaper than using Exit 7A and following I-195 West to I-295 South and taking the Walt Whitman Bridge.

Not anymore; courtesy of the new $5 E-ZPass/$6 cash-by-mail west/PA-bound toll, I've since stopped using Exit 6 for my New England return trips and now have been using Exit 7A.  Had the new toll rate been set at either $3 or $4; I probably would still be using Exit 6.   

Once the I-95 connection is made, and especially if the new AET's subject to the ludicrous annual Act 44 toll increases; I probably won't be using it... at least for southbound travel.  OTOH, if I'm heading north and the DRPA bridges near Philly & connecting NJ roads are worse of a parking lot than I-95 through Northeast Philly (can happen); I may just use the new I-95 north Turnpike ramps to head to New England.

[MrDisco99]

Depends on whether I'm hungry. Cheesesteaks decide the issue.

This is the correct answer.

Seeing that the Del. Mem. Br. route is unanimously winning, here's something I would like to point out.  Most people driving along the east coast, when they get to the Balt/Wash area, they tend to stay on 95 even though using 895 and 295 provides less mileage, and GPS's generally encourage people to use those routes, and also 95 runs closer to downtown Baltimore.  So, if people generally stay on 95 in the Balt/Wash area despite it being more miles and more busier, why wouldn't they do the exact same thing in the Philly area once the interchange is complete and 95 becomes continuous.  Like what's the difference between staying on 95 in the Balt/Wash area and staying on 95 in the Philly area (when it becomes continuous), when in both of these locations, staying on that route would take more time.

295 and 895 require that you leave the main road, and have lower speed limits which their mileage savings don't really compensate for.  295 through DC is also a traffic bottleneck which is best avoided by non-local traffic.

People will take the Turnpike rather than 95 through Philly for the SAME reasons they take 95 around DC and Baltimore.

Here's the pricing, Cash (EZ Pass (NJ Turnpike Peak/Off Peak if applicable)):

Let's say you're coming from NYC and getting on at 18E/W:

NJ Turnpike 18E/W to Exit 6: $11.80 (11.80/8.80)
PA Turnpike ORT: $6.75 (5.00)
Total Tolls: $18.55 (16.80/13.80)

NJ Turnpike 18E/W to Exit 1: $13.85 (13.85/10.40)
Del Mem Br: $4.00 (4.00)
Total Tolls: $17.85 (17.85/14.40)

For a cash toll payer using Interchange 6 rather than Interchange 1, it only saves them 70 cents.  EZ Pass Off-Peak is only a 60 cents savings.

Actually, paying cash, it's (only) 70 cents cheaper to take the whole NJTP than to go via exit 6.

Northbound, however, you save $2.05 by going through Philadelphia.

Despite this, I'm thinking traffic patterns won't actually change all that much with the exception of traffic between NY and Philly.  People who currently take the Turnpike to bypass Philly will continue to do so.  This will result in some traffic increase on the Turnpike connector as it's diverted away from the DRPA bridges, but I don't think we're going to see the mass migration of east coast motorists some are predicting.

[jeffandnicole]

Actually, paying cash, it's (only) 70 cents cheaper to take the whole NJTP than to go via exit 6.

Northbound, however, you save $2.05 by going through Philadelphia.

You had the first part backwards...it's only 70 cents cheaper to take Exit 6 than the entire NJTP.

You're right going Northbound there is a slight bit more difference.  Or, motorists can save even more by taking the parallel 295, which for the past 50 years they haven't done, so they're not going to start anytime soon!