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Author Topic: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..  (Read 30593 times)

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #125 on: September 18, 2016, 09:30:57 AM »

I think that the concurrent routings of all those US and IN routes on the I-465 beltway Indianapolis of course) are the dumbest yet, especially since they are so poorly signed (not signed at all on the beltway itself) and it's hard to tell which direction on the beltway one should go for the quickest way to continue on said route, at least for those not very good with maps or directions. Indiana might as well just continued the designations through town smdh.

Virginia is filled with unnecessary concurrencies. VA 2 has already been mentioned. There's also VA 32, which should just end in Suffolk, US 360 which should end at US 58 in South Boston instead of Danville, VA 337 which shouldn't even exist at all anymore..

Maryland has a hidden concurreny on US 50/301 (I-595). I'm sure this was done so that stretch can receive interstate funding. They might as well just sign it

I agree.  Refusing to sign Interstates is just stupid.

Indiana has a state law that limits mileage of the state road system.  Since Marion County and the semi-unified Indianapolis government has the resources to maintain these routes Indiana moved the state routes out of the core of the city.

Weird law.. but then again Virginia has some weird practices too lmao
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #126 on: September 18, 2016, 09:55:41 AM »

I was just on two of them in West Virginia.

WV 54 and WV 97. They are co-routed from their intersection point to WV 16 near Beckley, where WV 54 ends but WV 97 continues concurrently with WV 16. WV 97 then ends at the West Virginia Turnpike (I-64/I-77) while WV 16 continues.

I realize the purpose is to allow for a continuous route from the turnpike to Twin Falls State Park, but there's no need to continue WV 54.

You also sort of have WV 121 in the mix here, which ends at the WV 16/WV 54/WV 97 interchange complex.

WV 54 is a through high speed route to Mullens, so I think it makes sense to keep that signed. I'd cut back WV 97 to where it originally intersects WV 54 and just beef up signing for Twin Falls RSP as needed. If it wasn't for WV 121 eventually coming through, I'd look at swapping WV 16 and WV 54 but that seems like it will be a moot point in a couple years.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #127 on: September 18, 2016, 10:08:21 AM »

The VA 2/ US 301 concurrency between Richmond, VA and Bowling Green, VA.  Does VA 2 really need to be signed here at all?
VA 2 is signed there because it was there before US 301. Not that I don't think it should be truncated.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #128 on: September 18, 2016, 10:11:35 AM »

This might cause a bit of a row...


I-80/90 from Chicagoland to Ohio.  Either build an alternate Free route for one of the Interstates or replace I-94 to Detroit and Pt. Huron with I-90, then reconnect I-90 to the system in Buffalo heading to Boston.  Under this change, I-94 would terminate at I-90 at the Dan Ryan.


I'd just terminate I-94 in Milwaukee. With I-41, I-94 isn't necessary for a Chi-Mil interstate.


I had actually thought you would end I-41 in Milwaukee.


However, with your idea, if I-94 ends in Milwaukee, you could, in theory, replace I-96 with I-94, and either officially or unofficially, extend I-94 over the ferry between Milwaukee and Muskegon. :)
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #129 on: September 18, 2016, 10:12:15 AM »

With the signing of US 48, almost all of WV 55 is a useless multiplex. Other than a brief connector road in Moorefield, it is multiplexed with WV 20, WV 39, US 219, US 33, WV 28, and US 48 for its entire length east of Moorefield. It could be cut back to Craigsville.

WV 92 basically functions as two routes with a 70-mile useless multiplex along US 250 and WV 28 between. It wouldn't be hard to split this into two routes by moving US 33 back to its historic alignment around Elkins and extending WV 28.

If you got rid of these multiplexes, the 4-route multiplex of US 219/US 250/WV 55/WV 92 between Elkins and Huttonsville would drop to just US 219 and US 250.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #130 on: September 18, 2016, 03:55:25 PM »

WV 54 is a through high speed route to Mullens, so I think it makes sense to keep that signed. I'd cut back WV 97 to where it originally intersects WV 54 and just beef up signing for Twin Falls RSP as needed. If it wasn't for WV 121 eventually coming through, I'd look at swapping WV 16 and WV 54 but that seems like it will be a moot point in a couple years.

It doesn't look like any progress whatsoever has been made on extending the Coalfields Expressway beyond its current end at Slab Fork Road (CR 34). The road appears to be at grade, but no work on the final grade or surface has been done.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #131 on: September 18, 2016, 04:36:57 PM »

WV 54 is a through high speed route to Mullens, so I think it makes sense to keep that signed. I'd cut back WV 97 to where it originally intersects WV 54 and just beef up signing for Twin Falls RSP as needed. If it wasn't for WV 121 eventually coming through, I'd look at swapping WV 16 and WV 54 but that seems like it will be a moot point in a couple years.

It doesn't look like any progress whatsoever has been made on extending the Coalfields Expressway beyond its current end at Slab Fork Road (CR 34). The road appears to be at grade, but no work on the final grade or surface has been done.

There are a couple projects in the STIP in the next 2 years that will grade/drain and pave the Coalfields Expressway into Mullens via a connector roadway. They'll probably be done by about 2020.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #132 on: September 20, 2016, 04:33:49 PM »

This might cause a bit of a row...

US-30/I-84 in Oregon.  US-30 is not much more than a scenic route through Oregon, and should be largely eliminated.  The western portion should become US-26, and US-26 should either become an extension of I-84 or I-505, with the portion after the freeway becoming an Oregon State Route.
This would cause I-405 to be largely redundant for the suddenly long overlap with US 26.
Also, I'm not convinced the Canyon Road portion of the Sunset is interstate-grade, particularly the Vista Ridge Tunnel.

Secondly, US 30 functioning as I-84's business loops works very well, much the same with I-5 and OR 99. US 30 and I-84 serve two different functions: I-84 the long distance traffic, and US 30 serves the local, tourist and scenic traffic. There's no redundancy here.
Thirdly, US 30 is the only true coast-to-coast transcontinental US highway left.
10 got cut back from Seattle all the way to Fargo and ends at Lake Huron anyway.
20 doesn't exist in Yellowstone, which kills about 80 miles off its transcontinental status -- it still manages to be longer than 30, though!
40 got cut back from San Francisco to Park City.
50 got cut back from San Francisco to Sacramento.
60 got cut back from Los Angeles to Arizona.
70 got cut back from Los Angeles to Globe.
80 got cut back from San Diego all the way to Dallas.
90 never made it west out of Texas to begin with.

Now, if you had said US 26 in Idaho, a case could be very well made here. Theoretically, if you swung 26 north to Ontario, then over on ID 44 toward Boise, you could eliminate the Boise-Idaho Falls portion altogether and reassign the eastern portion of the route to another number, like 28.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #133 on: September 21, 2016, 08:42:37 PM »

How about the I-96/I-275 concurrency from I-96/M-14 in Plymouth to I-696/M-5?  Does I-275 need to be there?  I know, in the grand scheme of things, I-275 was supposed to connect to I-75 up around Clarkston, but since the NIMBY's got their way, shouldn't I-275 just end at I-96/M-14?
IMHO, I-275 and I-696 could easily be one interstate as the two form a northern and western bypass of the City of Detroit
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #134 on: September 21, 2016, 10:07:39 PM »

Is that like I-74/I-465 around much of Indianapolis? The hotel I stayed at in August of 2010 was by the Rockville Road (US Route 36) exit. It seemed like I-465 had more emphasis.

Image removed

Image removed

Actually, my recollection is that I-74 is rather well marked with reassurance and pull-through signs along its concurrency with I-465. (If anyone from the area has a different observation, please let me know.) The primary exception is mileposts, as shown in the one photo that I did not remove. It would certainly be logical to have mileposts for both interstates along the concurrency.

What is almost entirely unmarked are the many other concurrencies with 465, like US-40, US-31, SR-37, SR-67, etc. They are marked, often poorly, only where they join and leave 465. As one drives along 465, you are scarcely aware that other highways have joined along.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #135 on: September 22, 2016, 05:03:33 PM »

Usually I would take 441 from Yeehaw Junction to Miami via US 27.  Basically it always seemed to me that 441 should just continue south through Belle Glade or bypass it on FL 715.  715 doesn't have the same BS 45 MPH speed zones north of Belle Glade that the current US 441/98 has.  If that was the case then FL 80 could be signed as a BL even to US 98 as it cuts east.
Maybe have US 441 go all the way to Homestead via FL 997.  Take it like you said along FL 715 to bypass Belle Glade and make the current 441 just FL 15, as Palm Beach County does not make it a secret like the other counties do with hidden state routes. Have it turn west with FL 80 to US 27 and concur it with US 27 (again) all the way down to the 997 turn off and use 997 and make its southern terminus at US 1 in Florida City at the beginning of the Overseas Highway.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #136 on: September 22, 2016, 09:56:40 PM »

Usually I would take 441 from Yeehaw Junction to Miami via US 27.  Basically it always seemed to me that 441 should just continue south through Belle Glade or bypass it on FL 715.  715 doesn't have the same BS 45 MPH speed zones north of Belle Glade that the current US 441/98 has.  If that was the case then FL 80 could be signed as a BL even to US 98 as it cuts east.
Maybe have US 441 go all the way to Homestead via FL 997.  Take it like you said along FL 715 to bypass Belle Glade and make the current 441 just FL 15, as Palm Beach County does not make it a secret like the other counties do with hidden state routes. Have it turn west with FL 80 to US 27 and concur it with US 27 (again) all the way down to the 997 turn off and use 997 and make its southern terminus at US 1 in Florida City at the beginning of the Overseas Highway.

Actually that's not bad.  Little bit of a long multiplex through the Everglades with US 37 but it would sure advertise the alignment of 997 as a viable bypass of Miami if you don't want to use the Turnpike Extension....better payoff in my book than with US 98 eastward.  Plus Everglades National Park is down there as well, wouldn't help having another US Route that way.

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #137 on: September 23, 2016, 06:02:48 AM »

I-90 and I-94 in Chicago, according to certain poster who should have been banned a long time ago.

I was to concur with all of I-41, but then I wouldn't have an interstate shield with my favorite number :sombrero:. Anyway, it is unnecessary South of I-43. And I-894 should go away, as it is now redundant to other numbers.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #138 on: September 23, 2016, 09:29:28 AM »

This might cause a bit of a row...

US-30/I-84 in Oregon.  US-30 is not much more than a scenic route through Oregon, and should be largely eliminated.  The western portion should become US-26, and US-26 should either become an extension of I-84 or I-505, with the portion after the freeway becoming an Oregon State Route.
This would cause I-405 to be largely redundant for the suddenly long overlap with US 26.
Also, I'm not convinced the Canyon Road portion of the Sunset is interstate-grade, particularly the Vista Ridge Tunnel.

Secondly, US 30 functioning as I-84's business loops works very well, much the same with I-5 and OR 99. US 30 and I-84 serve two different functions: I-84 the long distance traffic, and US 30 serves the local, tourist and scenic traffic. There's no redundancy here.
Thirdly, US 30 is the only true coast-to-coast transcontinental US highway left.
10 got cut back from Seattle all the way to Fargo and ends at Lake Huron anyway.
20 doesn't exist in Yellowstone, which kills about 80 miles off its transcontinental status -- it still manages to be longer than 30, though!
40 got cut back from San Francisco to Park City.
50 got cut back from San Francisco to Sacramento.
60 got cut back from Los Angeles to Arizona.
70 got cut back from Los Angeles to Globe.
80 got cut back from San Diego all the way to Dallas.
90 never made it west out of Texas to begin with.

Now, if you had said US 26 in Idaho, a case could be very well made here. Theoretically, if you swung 26 north to Ontario, then over on ID 44 toward Boise, you could eliminate the Boise-Idaho Falls portion altogether and reassign the eastern portion of the route to another number, like 28.
I would reroute US 30 onto US 20 west of Ontario, ID all the way to US 101 at Newport. It would fit the grid perfectly being south of US 26 and eliminating an anomaly of the warped grid. The remaining section of US 30 between Portland and Astoria either becomes US 226 or gets demoted to a state highway.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #139 on: September 23, 2016, 09:54:53 AM »

I-90 and I-94 in Chicago, according to certain poster who should have been banned a long time ago.

I was to concur with all of I-41, but then I wouldn't have an interstate shield with my favorite number :sombrero:. Anyway, it is unnecessary South of I-43. And I-894 should go away, as it is now redundant to other numbers.

Now I'm just curious as to why it's your favorite number XD

Idk if this has been brought up, but I find I-39 and US51 to be an unnecessary concurrency in Illinois, when there's already a state-maintained surface road that can be carrying the US route.  In other words, I'd prefer US51 to use the current IL-251 and take IL-251 out of the game.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #140 on: September 24, 2016, 09:56:49 AM »

Usually I would take 441 from Yeehaw Junction to Miami via US 27.  Basically it always seemed to me that 441 should just continue south through Belle Glade or bypass it on FL 715.  715 doesn't have the same BS 45 MPH speed zones north of Belle Glade that the current US 441/98 has.  If that was the case then FL 80 could be signed as a BL even to US 98 as it cuts east.
Maybe have US 441 go all the way to Homestead via FL 997.  Take it like you said along FL 715 to bypass Belle Glade and make the current 441 just FL 15, as Palm Beach County does not make it a secret like the other counties do with hidden state routes. Have it turn west with FL 80 to US 27 and concur it with US 27 (again) all the way down to the 997 turn off and use 997 and make its southern terminus at US 1 in Florida City at the beginning of the Overseas Highway.

Actually that's not bad.  Little bit of a long multiplex through the Everglades with US 37 but it would sure advertise the alignment of 997 as a viable bypass of Miami if you don't want to use the Turnpike Extension....better payoff in my book than with US 98 eastward.  Plus Everglades National Park is down there as well, wouldn't help having another US Route that way.
You know back in the 90's the 997 split off of US 27 was signed for both Homestead and Key West.  I asked FDOT about that one at the time, and they informed me that it was done to give motorists an alternate toll free route to the Keys over the nearby Turnpike.  So basically it was a shunpike route even in the eyes of FDOT. 

To me once I used it as a means to get from US 1 NB to US 41 NB coming back from the Keys to visit my friend in Fort Myers as it is a good bypass of Metro Dade.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #141 on: September 24, 2016, 11:34:06 AM »

Usually I would take 441 from Yeehaw Junction to Miami via US 27.  Basically it always seemed to me that 441 should just continue south through Belle Glade or bypass it on FL 715.  715 doesn't have the same BS 45 MPH speed zones north of Belle Glade that the current US 441/98 has.  If that was the case then FL 80 could be signed as a BL even to US 98 as it cuts east.
Maybe have US 441 go all the way to Homestead via FL 997.  Take it like you said along FL 715 to bypass Belle Glade and make the current 441 just FL 15, as Palm Beach County does not make it a secret like the other counties do with hidden state routes. Have it turn west with FL 80 to US 27 and concur it with US 27 (again) all the way down to the 997 turn off and use 997 and make its southern terminus at US 1 in Florida City at the beginning of the Overseas Highway.

Actually that's not bad.  Little bit of a long multiplex through the Everglades with US 37 but it would sure advertise the alignment of 997 as a viable bypass of Miami if you don't want to use the Turnpike Extension....better payoff in my book than with US 98 eastward.  Plus Everglades National Park is down there as well, wouldn't help having another US Route that way.
You know back in the 90's the 997 split off of US 27 was signed for both Homestead and Key West.  I asked FDOT about that one at the time, and they informed me that it was done to give motorists an alternate toll free route to the Keys over the nearby Turnpike.  So basically it was a shunpike route even in the eyes of FDOT. 

To me once I used it as a means to get from US 1 NB to US 41 NB coming back from the Keys to visit my friend in Fort Myers as it is a good bypass of Metro Dade.

The clarification of where the route actually went back in those days probably helped even more when it was FL 27.  :-D

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #142 on: September 25, 2016, 11:13:35 AM »

There's the US 14/218 duplex in Owatonna, MN where 218 hops on 14 to end at I-35. Although this is treated weirdly where all the signs for some reason indicate that US 218 ends at the nondescript interchange one exit east of the I-35 interchange.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #143 on: September 25, 2016, 11:15:30 AM »

US-29/211 from Warrenton to DC. Evidently other people agreed that it was an unnecessary concurrency because it was removed in 1980 when 211 was truncated to end in Warrenton.

I understand  that the U.S. 29/U.S. 211 concurrency existed as long as it did because U.S. 211 was 'there first' before U.S. 29 came along and followed U.S. 211 up to D.C. (and then through D.C. and into Maryland).
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #144 on: September 25, 2016, 11:21:41 AM »

Maryland has a hidden concurreny on US 50/301 (I-595). I'm sure this was done so that stretch can receive interstate funding. They might as well just sign it

I-595 exists for one reason - so that the state could get Interstate funding to reconstruct U.S. 50/(U.S. 301) from Md. 410 (Exit 5, East-West Highway) in Prince George's County to Md. 70 (Exit 24, Rowe Boulevard) in Anne Arundel County.  It was a deliberate policy decision by the state to not sign it, as the freeway has long been known as "U.S. 50" or John Hanson Highway (though that name is no longer signed anywhere), and it was felt that I-595 would add confusion to a corridor that has been a freeway since the 1950's.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 11:26:42 AM by cpzilliacus »
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #145 on: September 25, 2016, 11:33:22 AM »

Somewhat surprised that nobody has mentioned the concurrency of U.S. 17 and U.S. 50 from Paris, Virginia to Winchester (which is the current northern terminus of U.S. 17).

Why not just truncate U.S. 17 back to Paris - or, perhaps even better, truncate it back to I-66 (Exit 28 at Marshall), remove the U.S. 17 concurrency from I-66, and demote the section of U.S. 17 from Delaplane to Paris to a secondary system road, since the people that live along it have gotten a strict truck ban put in place (and it does have a hazardous grade crossing between Va. 712 and Va. 623).
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #146 on: September 25, 2016, 11:36:48 AM »

The VA 2/ US 301 concurrency between Richmond, VA and Bowling Green, VA.  Does VA 2 really need to be signed here at all?
VA 2 is signed there because it was there before US 301. Not that I don't think it should be truncated.

Rather like U.S. 211 east of Warrenton.  It was there before U.S. 29, though it was eventually removed.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #147 on: September 25, 2016, 11:40:42 AM »

I think FL SR 997 could become a rerouted US 27 and the current route of US could become US 27 ALT.  Another possbility could be to make SR 997 as US 27W.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #148 on: September 25, 2016, 01:31:14 PM »

I think FL SR 997 could become a rerouted US 27 and the current route of US could become US 27 ALT.  Another possbility could be to make SR 997 as US 27W.
As alluded to in a previous post... FL SR 997 and  SR 9336 were Florida SR 27 until the 1980s or 90s(?).. it was changed to avoid confusion nearby US 27. 

 Much like Florida SR 1 was changed to A1A to avoid confusion with US 1 ( US27 is secret SR 25 from Miami to Leesburg. US 1 is SR 5 from Key West to Jacksonville for the most part)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 01:43:49 PM by jwolfer »
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #149 on: September 25, 2016, 02:32:28 PM »

I-90 and I-94 in Chicago, according to certain poster who should have been banned a long time ago.

+1 So you agree with me, but I should have been banned a long time ago?  :rofl:


Not unless you have a solution.


I do. Also involves another great concurrency theory...USs 12, 20 and 45. A future plan would make US 12 and 20 AND I-90 a "necessary concurrency" for a short while, but that would be WAY better than the #1 traffic mess Chicago is now.
Logged
ILs mantra..the beatings will continue until the morale improves but Expect Delays is good too. Seems some are happy that Chicago/land remains miserable. Status quo is often asinine...Always feel free to use a dictionary as I tend to offend younger or more sensitive viewers. Thanx Pythagoras. :rofl:

 


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