I-99: What would you number it?

[mightyace]

As most roadgeeks know, I-99 is the most egregious exception to the U.S. interstate numbering plan.

Now, it's not likely that the number will actually ever change as former U.S. Representative Bud Shuster had the I-99 designation written into law.

But, let's play what if...

What if you could renumber I-99 to something more sensible, what would you sign it as?

Here are some of the ideas that I've had:

1) A 2di is out of the question as the highway lies between I-79 and I-81 and all numbers from 69 to 97 are now taken.  (and most would be as out of place as 99 is)

2a) The existing turnpike to I-80 could be renumbered as a 3di.  Since it almost connects with the turnpike x70 and x76 would be appropriate with the first digit being an odd number.  Numbers 170, 370, 570, 770, 776, and 976 are available.  The state already has I-176 and I-376 and will soon have I-576 near Pittsburgh.  It could also be numbered as I-580, 780 or 980.  Or, it could have the same number as the US 15 section north of Williamsport.

Now, some of you say, I-99 does not directly connect to turnpike!  True, but I-176 didn't have a direct connection to the turnpike until around 2000.

2b) This section could simply revert to the US-220 designation or have the I-99 designation hidden.

3a) As for the US 15 section, (Williamsport, PA to Painted Post, NY) has a few options as well.  As a 3di, it could extend the x70, x76, or x80 designation on the existing and proposed US 220 co-signed section.

3b) Of course, this section could be another number entirely.  I-180 could be turned from an east-west to a north-south interstate and extended over this section.  This is a bit of a stretch but not as much of one as extending I-390 south to Williamsport.  And, of course, an x86 number would be available as well.

3c) The status quo is also a viable option with the highway remaining US 220 and US 15.

My preference would be to simply have the existing I-99 revert to US 220 only and keep the proposed US 220/15 corridor with its current designations.

The whole point of this post is to see what the rest of you think.  So, have at it everyone!

[akotchi]

Designate the portion from State College to I-80 as an x80, assuming a freeway-to-freeway interchange at I-80 in the future.

The rest of the southern section can revert back to U.S. 220.

From Williamsport to I-86, designate as an x86.

[Voyager]

Yeah, it's not even long enough to warrant it's own number...just make it a spur from 80.

[agentsteel53]

US-220 is fine.

[Chris]

Maybe swamp I-97 and I-99. Still not within the numbering system, but better anway.

[agentsteel53]

I-97 needs to be swamped, for sure.  I-995 is a perfectly good number for that one.

[John]

Really, I-99 isn't that bad. Sure, it grinds our gears, but I'll bet the vast majority of the public don't know or care that it is out of place. That said, if they wanted to fix it, 76/70 to 80 should be I-570 IMO and the segment up to Painted Post could all be I-180.

[Snappyjack]

I still say renumber it I-81, and make current I-81 from either I-70 or the PA Turnpike a spur route, and then move I-83 from it's current northern terminus up present day 81.

But I guess an I-76 spur could work too.

A perfect I-99 would be for the DE-1 and U.S. 13 corridor down to Norfolk, and perhaps along the U.S. 17 corridor into North and South Carolina.

[vdeane]

From I-70/I-76 to I-80: I-580

From I-80 to US 15: extension of I-180

From I-180 to I-86: I-586

I greatly prefer interstates to US routes for some reason so I'm not particularly fond of reverting everything to US 220.

[treichard]

Keep I-99.  Remove some lengthy overlapping designations:

When I-99 is completed between I-180 and I-86, US 15 becomes mostly redundant north of Camp Hill, so truncate it at PA 581 and extend PA 61 north to replace the part of solo-US 15 through Lewisburg. 

When I-99 is completed between I-80 and I-180, US 220 becomes mostly redundant (more so than now), so truncate it at I-70/76 at Bedford and extend PA 61 north to replace US 220 past Athens to NY.

Or if the PA 61 extension seems sub-par because it makes a large V-shaped route, pick a new state route number for the US 220 replacement.  PennDOT would probably pick PA 37 (lowest, two-digit, odd number that is available) for a lengthy north-south state route. (I hypothesize that the Mon-Fay Exp-way was given PA 43 for this exact reason, in combination with the fact that WV 37 was already in use, the highway was to have the same number in both PA and WV, and an Interstate number wasn't sought.  The PA 33 expressway number also seems to have been selected in this manner.  )

[FLRoads]

Even though its a pain in the a$$, at this point I wouldn't renumber I-99 either.  The only things I would do is get the direct freeway to freeway connection between it and I-70/76 and once it reaches I-86, have it terminate there.  Don't push it further north to overlap I-86 and take over all of I-390.  That is seemingly becoming another trend in the US, exchanging 3 di's for 2 di's (like exterminating a perfectly sound I-181 for a pretty much out of place I-26).  But that can be put onto another thread...

[Alex]

I'm used to the number, and where else would they use it now, considering they only extend existing numbers now rather than come up with new ones for corridors. For me, I'd be fine if they just sent U.S. 220 and U.S. 15 back onto their old alignments were they are still in tact and just keep Interstate 99 in place.

[PAHighways]

I say leave it alone, not just because changing it would cause more work for me, but it's been 14 years.  At first, I thought it was ridiculous especially considering who got the number, but at this point it's just another designation.

[WillWeaverRVA]

I-876 or I-480. Or leave it and truncate US 220.

[Michael]

I'm used to the number, and where else would they use it now, considering they only extend existing numbers now rather than come up with new ones for corridors. For me, I'd be fine if they just sent U.S. 220 and U.S. 15 back onto their old alignments were they are still in tact and just keep Interstate 99 in place.

Good luck north of Mansfield.  Half the road is underwater now!

Anyway, why can't it be called 81W (81 West) or 81A (81 Alternate)?

I had originally thought of extending I-390 to the NY/PA border, making it I-380 from the border until either State College or Altoona, and then I-376 from there until I-76

This would keep a 3XX designation along the entire route, which to me would seem to make a relationship.  Also, it wouldn't violate Interstate numbering rules.

This original proposal does have problems though.  One is that I-376 is already in use.  Another is that some people would be confused by the route changing numbers

So, after thinking about it, I think 81W or 81A would be a better number.

EDIT: If other Interstates were renumbered, wouldn't it cost more money to install new signs than it would to "fix" I-99?

[Scott5114]

Anyway, why can't it be called 81W (81 West) or 81A (81 Alternate)?

Because then you have the fun situation of telling someone to take "North I-81 West". Locals understand such things but I had to explain to a group of elderly Kansans to go south on I-35W in Fort Worth once and instantly got why AASHTO decided to quit doing that. An ALT I-81 is an idea, considering I-670 in Kansas City is also ALT I-70.

Personally, I'd renumber I-99 to I-¾.

[Otto0405]

I wouldn't have numbered it an interstate.  Straight politics.

[Michael]

Anyway, why can't it be called 81W (81 West) or 81A (81 Alternate)?

Because then you have the fun situation of telling someone to take "North I-81 West". Locals understand such things but I had to explain to a group of elderly Kansans to go south on I-35W in Fort Worth once and instantly got why AASHTO decided to quit doing that. An ALT I-81 is an idea, considering I-670 in Kansas City is also ALT I-70.

Personally, I'd renumber I-99 to I-¾.

I understand 35W and 35E as two different routes.  I would think of it as a suffixed route, like NY 104 and NY 104A near where I live. I guess a suffixed A would work.

P.S.: How do you number a route ¾?!?!?!

[agentsteel53]

first you draw a three, then a slash, then a four... print several hundred examples, punch mounting holes, affix to all relevant poles

[Duke87]

Reality is, the highway system isn't going to fit perfectly into a grid. We already have several other instances of part of (even most of) a route existing with its number "out of place". Still, you try and to stick to the system as much as you can. Obviously the idea that north-south routes are odd while east-west routes are even needs to be adhered to strictly, but beyond that, the idea of number increasing from south to north and from west to east realistically works as just a general trend - as it has with the US highway system since the very beginning (US 46 is north of US 22, for instance...), and hasn't seemed to bother anyone. You're not going to be able to have a perfect orderly lineup every time with these things, the real world doesn't work out neat and tidy like that.

[Michael]

first you draw a three, then a slash, then a four... print several hundred examples, punch mounting holes, affix to all relevant poles

Not literally!  How would that work in the numbering system?

[Scott5114]

first you draw a three, then a slash, then a four... print several hundred examples, punch mounting holes, affix to all relevant poles

Not literally!  How would that work in the numbering system?

The same way I-99 does, silly! 

[Michael]

first you draw a three, then a slash, then a four... print several hundred examples, punch mounting holes, affix to all relevant poles

Not literally!  How would that work in the numbering system?

The same way I-99 does, silly! 

HAHAHAHAHA!

[geoking111]

One costly idea would be to extend I-83 north from Harrisburg. It could follow along either the west or east bank of the Susquehanna. It would then take over PA 147, I-180, and US 15 to Painted Post. It could then be duplexed with I-86 and take over I-390's route to Rochester. I-83 would then be a continuous route from Rochester to Baltimore. I know I-83 would be west of I-81, but it is not as awful as having I-99 west of I-81.

I would make US 220 between I-80 and Williamsport as I-x80 or I-x83. Similarly, I-99 from Bedford and I-80 could be I-x70, I-x76, or I-x80. By the way, I would not truncate US 15, i would extend it to Rochester since I like US Highways.

[mightyace]

One costly idea would be to extend I-83 north from Harrisburg. It could follow along either the west or east bank of the Susquehanna. It would then take over PA 147, I-180, and US 15 to Painted Post. It could then be duplexed with I-86 and take over I-390's route to Rochester. I-83 would then be a continuous route from Rochester to Baltimore. I know I-83 would be west of I-81, but it is not as awful as having I-99 west of I-81.

I would make US 220 between I-80 and Williamsport as I-x80 or I-x83. Similarly, I-99 from Bedford and I-80 could be I-x70, I-x76, or I-x80. By the way, I would not truncate US 15, i would extend it to Rochester since I like US Highways.

I've thought about a similar idea myself though my idea had I-81 being rerouted onto the alignment you talk about and put I-83 on the current I-81 alignment.  Now that is a bit of a purist, but on the other hand, most of I-71 (the Ohio part) is east of I-75.

Not long ago I came across an official proposal to link PA 147 with the orphaned US 11-15 expressway around Selinsgrove.  (If I come across that page again, I'll post a link to it.)

Our proposed I-81/83 could follow this alignment as well as the US 22-322 expressway from Harrisburg to Duncannon.

The problem with putting a freeway in here is that the mountains pretty much go to the rivers edge on both sides of the river.  PA 147 from Sunbury south is a roller coaster highway.  US 11-15 on the west side of the Susquehanna is relatively flat and lies on a narrow plain near the river but again the mountains aren't far away.  So, putting a freeway in from Duncannon to Selinsgrove would be a very expensive proposition because you'd have to go inland unless you destroy all the little villages along the west bank of the Susquehanna.

The need is there for upgrade US 11-15 to a freeway as trucks using the hypothetical I-81/83 routing use it as well as northbound traffic that wants a flatter, low-altitude route versus the real I-81 that goes over the tops of the mountains to Wilkes-Barre.

What Pennsylvania has done over the last 25-30 years is widen the road to four through lanes and has added jug handles, turning lanes and a concrete or guardrail median.  Thus, you have a "poor man's freeway" as I call it, or maybe it could be termed an expressway.

But, ah well, we can dream can't we.

P. S. I am now a Tennessee resident, but I grew up in that part of PA and made many trips on US 11-15, US 22-322, and PA 147 especially when I was in graduate school at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore.