RANT: Don't Drive "Dopey"

[kkt]

These drivers absolutely grind my gears.  They include folks that:

-Accelerate from stoplights considerably slower than the rate of traffic

Red-light runners love to plow into people who accelerate quickly at stoplights. Just chill out and let people drive at a speed they feel is safe, especially when you're not going to save more than a few seconds anyway (and probably would lose that savings at the next stoplight).

Pet peeve: Drivers that don't relax, instead treating driving like a race.

Last week's Stupid Driver award.  I was driving along a 2-lane city arterial with a posted speed limit of 30 mph, between 30 and 35.  Adjacent parking, playground, frequent cross streets.  I was approaching a traffic light that was turning yellow a half a block in front of me, saw I couldn't make the light at my speed, and coasted and braked to a smooth stop.  When I was almost stopped, a car behind me crossed the double yellow line into the oncoming traffic lane, accellerated, and dashed into the intersection against a red light that had been red about a second by this time.  Happy to report that the side street traffic was good defensive drivers who did not go into the intersection as soon as their lights turned green, so there was no collision.  No matter how much the Stupid Driver Award Winner would have had it coming.

[inkyatari]

People who drive the wrong way in the aisle in one direction parking lots.
People who back into parking spots.
People who throw their cancer sticks out their car window.

[signalman]

People who back into parking spots.

What's wrong with that?  I always back into spots.  There's no question that it's safer to back into a parking spot, as opposed to backing out of one.

[tradephoric]

Last week's Stupid Driver award.  I was driving along a 2-lane city arterial with a posted speed limit of 30 mph, between 30 and 35.  Adjacent parking, playground, frequent cross streets.  I was approaching a traffic light that was turning yellow a half a block in front of me, saw I couldn't make the light at my speed, and coasted and braked to a smooth stop.  When I was almost stopped, a car behind me crossed the double yellow line into the oncoming traffic lane, accellerated, and dashed into the intersection against a red light that had been red about a second by this time.  Happy to report that the side street traffic was good defensive drivers who did not go into the intersection as soon as their lights turned green, so there was no collision.  No matter how much the Stupid Driver Award Winner would have had it coming.

You may be overestimating the attentiveness of side-street traffic in this instance.  There is usually an all red interval between phases where the entire intersection is locked down red for a few seconds.  The driver who blew thru the intersection moments after the light turned red was most likely in this all red clearance interval.  Also, even if side-street traffic gets a green the instance the main-street turns red (ie. no all red interval), it takes a few second to react to the green light and accelerate into the intersection. 

[Takumi]

People who back into parking spots.

I believe there's no such thing as an incorrect opinion, but man is this a bad one.

[jeffandnicole]

People who drive the wrong way in the aisle in one direction parking lots.
People who back into parking spots.
People who throw their cancer sticks out their car window.

I totally agree with the first and last, but yeah what's wrong with backing into parking spots?  As long as they can do it without needing 5 tries and parking 3 inches from the car next to them, this is actually preferred in my book.

[kkt]

Last week's Stupid Driver award.  I was driving along a 2-lane city arterial with a posted speed limit of 30 mph, between 30 and 35.  Adjacent parking, playground, frequent cross streets.  I was approaching a traffic light that was turning yellow a half a block in front of me, saw I couldn't make the light at my speed, and coasted and braked to a smooth stop.  When I was almost stopped, a car behind me crossed the double yellow line into the oncoming traffic lane, accellerated, and dashed into the intersection against a red light that had been red about a second by this time.  Happy to report that the side street traffic was good defensive drivers who did not go into the intersection as soon as their lights turned green, so there was no collision.  No matter how much the Stupid Driver Award Winner would have had it coming.

You may be overestimating the attentiveness of side-street traffic in this instance.  There is usually an all red interval between phases where the entire intersection is locked down red for a few seconds.  The driver who blew thru the intersection moments after the light turned red was most likely in this all red clearance interval.  Also, even if side-street traffic gets a green the instance the main-street turns red (ie. no all red interval), it takes a few second to react to the green light and accelerate into the intersection. 

There is an all-red phase at that light, but it's only about half a second.  I'm pretty sure it was green to the cross traffic about the same time he entered the intersection from an unexpected direction.

[tradephoric]

Last week's Stupid Driver award.  I was driving along a 2-lane city arterial with a posted speed limit of 30 mph, between 30 and 35.  Adjacent parking, playground, frequent cross streets.  I was approaching a traffic light that was turning yellow a half a block in front of me, saw I couldn't make the light at my speed, and coasted and braked to a smooth stop.  When I was almost stopped, a car behind me crossed the double yellow line into the oncoming traffic lane, accellerated, and dashed into the intersection against a red light that had been red about a second by this time.  Happy to report that the side street traffic was good defensive drivers who did not go into the intersection as soon as their lights turned green, so there was no collision.  No matter how much the Stupid Driver Award Winner would have had it coming.

You may be overestimating the attentiveness of side-street traffic in this instance.  There is usually an all red interval between phases where the entire intersection is locked down red for a few seconds.  The driver who blew thru the intersection moments after the light turned red was most likely in this all red clearance interval.  Also, even if side-street traffic gets a green the instance the main-street turns red (ie. no all red interval), it takes a few second to react to the green light and accelerate into the intersection. 

There is an all-red phase at that light, but it's only about half a second.  I'm pretty sure it was green to the cross traffic about the same time he entered the intersection from an unexpected direction.

Wow, a half second all red is pretty short.  By default MDOT uses a minimum 1 second all red but can push up to 3 seconds depending on the intersection width and speed limit.  For a road with a 30 mph limit, a 2.5 second all red is pretty standard around here.

[vdeane]

People who drive the wrong way in the aisle in one direction parking lots.
People who back into parking spots.
People who throw their cancer sticks out their car window.

I totally agree with the first and last, but yeah what's wrong with backing into parking spots?  As long as they can do it without needing 5 tries and parking 3 inches from the car next to them, this is actually preferred in my book.

Heck, backing into spaces is required when driving a NY state vehicle.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I've never backed into a space arbitrarily. I never saw the advantages of doing so; usually I'll go out of my way to find a pull through parking space.

[jakeroot]

I've never backed into a space arbitrarily. I never saw the advantages of doing so; usually I'll go out of my way to find a pull through parking space.

If you know how to do it, it's a lot less risky. Also better visibility, because when you leave the spot, you are positioned closer to the aisle.

It's also a lot faster when leaving. As a valet, I'm very used to backing in. It's the only way I ever park. I've seen way too many people scratch their front bumpers trying to squeeze into a spot.

There are several areas of street parking in Tacoma, WA with back-in only angle parking. Always fun trying to watch people who have no practice trying to pull it off. The city decided to do this because the road is narrow, and backing out into it would be too dangerous. Much easier and safer to pull out into it.

Last week's Stupid Driver award.  I was driving along a 2-lane city arterial with a posted speed limit of 30 mph, between 30 and 35.  Adjacent parking, playground, frequent cross streets.  I was approaching a traffic light that was turning yellow a half a block in front of me, saw I couldn't make the light at my speed, and coasted and braked to a smooth stop.  When I was almost stopped, a car behind me crossed the double yellow line into the oncoming traffic lane, accellerated, and dashed into the intersection against a red light that had been red about a second by this time.  Happy to report that the side street traffic was good defensive drivers who did not go into the intersection as soon as their lights turned green, so there was no collision.  No matter how much the Stupid Driver Award Winner would have had it coming.

You may be overestimating the attentiveness of side-street traffic in this instance.  There is usually an all red interval between phases where the entire intersection is locked down red for a few seconds.  The driver who blew thru the intersection moments after the light turned red was most likely in this all red clearance interval.  Also, even if side-street traffic gets a green the instance the main-street turns red (ie. no all red interval), it takes a few second to react to the green light and accelerate into the intersection. 

There is an all-red phase at that light, but it's only about half a second.  I'm pretty sure it was green to the cross traffic about the same time he entered the intersection from an unexpected direction.

Wow, a half second all red is pretty short.  By default MDOT uses a minimum 1 second all red but can push up to 3 seconds depending on the intersection width and speed limit.  For a road with a 30 mph limit, a 2.5 second all red is pretty standard around here.

There's at least one signal south of Seattle (in the town of Puyallup) with no all red phase. Meridian @ 9th Ave SE. The signal is so old though, the right turn filters didn't have a yellow arrow until summer 2017. Just green arrow and then *poof* nothing.

[inkyatari]

People who back into parking spots.

I believe there's no such thing as an incorrect opinion, but man is this a bad one.

No, this is a good one.  I've had many near misses in parking lots from people who park wrong, as it's hard to see if someone is in the car, especially at night , and then not every vehicle has "daytime running lights," but all of them have backup lights.

[Takumi]

People who back into parking spots.

I believe there’s no such thing as an incorrect opinion, but man is this a bad one.

No, this is a good one.  I've had many near misses in parking lots from people who park wrong, as it's hard to see if someone is in the car, especially at night , and then not every vehicle has "daytime running lights," but all of them have backup lights.

No, it’s bad. I, and likely almost everyone else here, have had more near misses from what you consider parking “correctly” than backing into a spot. There are just so many more benefits to backing in.

[inkyatari]

People who back into parking spots.

I believe there's no such thing as an incorrect opinion, but man is this a bad one.

No, this is a good one.  I've had many near misses in parking lots from people who park wrong, as it's hard to see if someone is in the car, especially at night , and then not every vehicle has "daytime running lights," but all of them have backup lights.

No, it's bad. I, and likely almost everyone else here, have had more near misses from what you consider parking "correctly"  than backing into a spot. There are just so many more benefits to backing in.

We'll have to disagree on this.

[jakeroot]

There is no way that backing out, blind, into a roadway could possibly be safer than pulling straight out into it. This is why many cities now utilise back-in angle parking.

What is safer is doing all the hard work beforehand when you can actually see the cars and pedestrians around you.

I've had many near misses in parking lots from people who park wrong, as it's hard to see if someone is in the car, especially at night , and then not every vehicle has "daytime running lights," but all of them have backup lights.

The only near misses I've had in parking lots, have been people backing out blindly into the parking aisle. Into people, into cars, etc. I've never had this issue with drivers who back in, because they only have to nudge out about a foot or two (if at all) to see if it's safe to pull out.

I'm guessing what you've actually had is one near miss with someone who backed in, and now you (for some reason) hate the concept due to this one person?

[sparker]

Perhaps this is a Bay Area phenomenon, but freeway drivers who refuse to move into the lane to their left to allow traffic to enter the freeway are starting to get on my nerves.  I've noticed this happening on virtually every freeway in the area; CA 87 through central San Jose seems to be the worst.  Several times a week I need to use the loop entrance ramp from Curtner Ave. to SB 87 -- which isn't particularly conducive to decent acceleration, so with the Camry I'm doing about 50 or so when I run out of merge area (if I have my GF's 4-runner, I'll be somewhere between 55 & 60).  This is in midday, so there's generally not a lot of traffic -- but I find that about half the time right-lane drivers just don't display the courtesy of moving over so vehicles can merge.  Occasionally they'll slow down -- but then tailgate you all the way down to the CA 85 junction (about 3 miles).  The other freeway this happens frequently is CA 237; for some reason, I-880 and US 101 drivers seem to be more aware of their surroundings.  And I-280's merge situation in San Jose is just too fucked up to result in any consistent display of courtesy -- everybody's just trying to survive that stretch of road intact! 

I didn't notice this problem when I was living down in the Inland Empire for almost 9 years; if the ramp configuration resulted in a relatively slow freeway entry (common in the high desert), drivers seemed to be aware enough to move over if it was safe to do so.  Certainly not enough to make me want to move back down there -- but it's starting to get somewhat annoying -- and definitely not the safest situation!   

[kkt]

The traffic already on the freeway has the right of way.  It's the job of the driver who's merging to find an opening.

[webny99]

Drivers who don't keep up with other drivers. Almost all signals in my area are fully actuated, and leaving a decent gap will trigger the side-street signals if someone is waiting. I have missed countless signals because drivers accelerated away from a light just a hair slower than everyone else, but that hair added up to twenty car lengths; next thing I know, we're stopped at a red light. Again.

The cars that were in front of them have long since accelerated away. The drivers in front of them could be miles ahead, having made green lights that the slow driver missed.

Moral of the story? Always keep up with traffic, no matter what.

This is when I need a "like" button, because I fully agree, but you've already said everything I might have added
There are some people that refuse to budge one mile per hour above the speed limit, but this can be extremely detrimental to flow, especially when there are high volumes of signals that are actuated (or even timed, if they're timed for above the speed limit).

Long strings of cars on two-lane roads are the bane of my existence, especially when I'm in a hurry! If you're directly following a slower driver, you can pass them, but with every car that queues behind them, it gets harder and harder to find a passing opportunity. People tend to also follow more closely, such that you can't pass randomly and then cut in somewhere. It's either all, or nothing 

Ever wonder why slow drivers are always at the front of the pack?

I can't say I've ever wondered, I think it's fairly self explanatory 

[webny99]

The traffic already on the freeway has the right of way.  It's the job of the driver who's merging to find an opening.

Respectfully disagree. If volumes are high enough that right lane traffic can't move left, they should be instead zippering with the incoming cars.

Forcing someone to brake is always a last-resort option.

[J N Winkler]

Drivers who don't keep up with other drivers. Almost all signals in my area are fully actuated, and leaving a decent gap will trigger the side-street signals if someone is waiting. I have missed countless signals because drivers accelerated away from a light just a hair slower than everyone else, but that hair added up to twenty car lengths; next thing I know, we're stopped at a red light. Again.

I have mixed feelings about this one, largely because in areas less congested than Seattle and environs, a signal that is obviously actuated gives drivers an incentive to speed up well over the speed limit just to make the green.

I've never backed into a space arbitrarily. I never saw the advantages of doing so; usually I'll go out of my way to find a pull through parking space.

If you know how to do it, it's a lot less risky. Also better visibility, because when you leave the spot, you are positioned closer to the aisle.

It's also a lot faster when leaving. As a valet, I'm very used to backing in. It's the only way I ever park. I've seen way too many people scratch their front bumpers trying to squeeze into a spot.

AskReddit thread on rationales for backing into parking spaces

I personally park nose-out (either by backing or driving through into) everywhere this is not specifically prohibited by law.  My favored reversing technique is to drive forward so my rear bumper is at least one stall width past the desired space, and then back into it through a 90° angle.  This makes it really easy to begin and finish with the steering wheel in the neutral, straight-ahead position, which minimizes both tire scrub and wear on the power steering pump.

The main disadvantage to my technique is the problems it creates when someone is climbing up my tailpipe as I cruise looking for a parking space.  That person can either steal my chosen space by nosing into it just as I begin the reversing maneuver, or can prevent me from accessing it by refusing to give me room to back up.  But, on the whole, I prefer it to the more common technique of cocking the car just outside the space, which increases tire scrub, reduces room to maneuver, and makes it more difficult to center the car properly in the stall.

There are situations where backing in can be quite problematic.  These include parking garages with columns or other build-outs that stick into the parking space and can stove in part of the bumper cover if you are not careful, as well as curbs in parking lots that are just high enough to conflict with exhaust system components if you misjudge the distance and back in too far.  But, on the whole, the safety benefits are compelling.

A commenter upthread expressed annoyance about people backing in because their taillights are not visible, thus leaving an aisle cruiser no warning when they are about to leave their parking spaces.  I believe this is misplaced, for two reasons.  First, a person parked nose out usually has an excellent view of cross traffic and is less likely to make an ill-timed maneuver in the first place.  Second, the backup and brake lamps are no longer reliable indications of a person about to back out of a parking space, because several automakers (notably GM) now use the backup lights as part of the courtesy lighting system.

[sparker]

The traffic already on the freeway has the right of way.  It's the job of the driver who's merging to find an opening.

In strictly legal terms, that statement is correct.  However, in a practical sense, requiring vehicles merging from the right, particularly with limited space, to potentially offer themselves up as "road boulders" by slowing to a crawl prior to entering the lane of traffic is patently ridiculous.  It's every driver's responsibility to be aware of their environment -- but I've personally witnessed numerous drivers in this area who never seem to move their heads from a fully forward-facing position so as to assess the situation around them -- it's like they're in a trance behind the wheel.  I've been driving about 52 years now -- but driver competence, especially in these parts, seems to have deteriorated over the last decade or two -- and from my observations much of that stems from lack of situational awareness.   

[slorydn1]

Drivers who don't keep up with other drivers. Almost all signals in my area are fully actuated, and leaving a decent gap will trigger the side-street signals if someone is waiting. I have missed countless signals because drivers accelerated away from a light just a hair slower than everyone else, but that hair added up to twenty car lengths; next thing I know, we're stopped at a red light. Again.

I have mixed feelings about this one, largely because in areas less congested than Seattle and environs, a signal that is obviously actuated gives drivers an incentive to speed up well over the speed limit just to make the green.

I've never backed into a space arbitrarily. I never saw the advantages of doing so; usually I'll go out of my way to find a pull through parking space.

If you know how to do it, it's a lot less risky. Also better visibility, because when you leave the spot, you are positioned closer to the aisle.

It's also a lot faster when leaving. As a valet, I'm very used to backing in. It's the only way I ever park. I've seen way too many people scratch their front bumpers trying to squeeze into a spot.

AskReddit thread on rationales for backing into parking spaces

I personally park nose-out (either by backing or driving through into) everywhere this is not specifically prohibited by law.  My favored reversing technique is to drive forward so my rear bumper is at least one stall width past the desired space, and then back into it through a 90° angle.  This makes it really easy to begin and finish with the steering wheel in the neutral, straight-ahead position, which minimizes both tire scrub and wear on the power steering pump.

The main disadvantage to my technique is the problems it creates when someone is climbing up my tailpipe as I cruise looking for a parking space.  That person can either steal my chosen space by nosing into it just as I begin the reversing maneuver, or can prevent me from accessing it by refusing to give me room to back up.  But, on the whole, I prefer it to the more common technique of cocking the car just outside the space, which increases tire scrub, reduces room to maneuver, and makes it more difficult to center the car properly in the stall.

There are situations where backing in can be quite problematic.  These include parking garages with columns or other build-outs that stick into the parking space and can stove in part of the bumper cover if you are not careful, as well as curbs in parking lots that are just high enough to conflict with exhaust system components if you misjudge the distance and back in too far.  But, on the whole, the safety benefits are compelling.

A commenter upthread expressed annoyance about people backing in because their taillights are not visible, thus leaving an aisle cruiser no warning when they are about to leave their parking spaces.  I believe this is misplaced, for two reasons.  First, a person parked nose out usually has an excellent view of cross traffic and is less likely to make an ill-timed maneuver in the first place.  Second, the backup and brake lamps are no longer reliable indications of a person about to back out of a parking space, because several automakers (notably GM) now use the backup lights as part of the courtesy lighting system.

I almost always back in. I also usually park so far away from an entrance to the business that pretty much no one would be right behind me when I back in, nor would there be anyone wanting my space when I am ready to leave. It's just too far to walk for today's "I gotta be right there at the entrance" crowd.

[roadman]

Back about ten years ago or so, my normally quiet residential street suddenly became a popular cut through route for people.  Despite the posted speed limit of 25, many of them drive way too fast.  One morning when backing out of my driveway, I nearly got t-boned by one of these morons.  That day made me a believer - Unless it's totally impractical (like with angle parking), I will ALWAYS back into a parking space unless I can pull through to the adjacent space and be facing forward.

[abefroman329]

Alleys are not parking lots.

Get over it. Some people don't have a choice like me in areas that have no parking and by what I mean by that is parking that is extremely hard to come by. I work for food delivery and whether or not I park in an alley to try and avoid a parking ticket makes a difference between me having a job or not. So fuck your convenience of having to go slowly around my car which I make sure people can.

And fuck you for parking where I can't get out of my garage. Or for not actually leaving enough room for me to get around you. And fuck you and every other driver who park such that I have to snake my way down the alley.  Next time you're in my way, I'll back into you, and you can explain to the cops why you needed to park in the alley.

[Plutonic Panda]

Alleys are not parking lots.

Get over it. Some people don't have a choice like me in areas that have no parking and by what I mean by that is parking that is extremely hard to come by. I work for food delivery and whether or not I park in an alley to try and avoid a parking ticket makes a difference between me having a job or not. So fuck your convenience of having to go slowly around my car which I make sure people can.

And fuck you for parking where I can't get out of my garage. Or for not actually leaving enough room for me to get around you. And fuck you and every other driver who park such that I have to snake my way down the alley.  Next time you're in my way, I'll back into you, and you can explain to the cops why you needed to park in the alley.

I don't park where you can't get out of your garage. How about you direct your anger to the city which can't seem to build adequate parking.

Go talk to a shrink and get over your senseless rage about you having to use your steering wheel to drive through an alley which you shouldn't even be going over 10MPH in anyways. It sucks, but don't worry sweetness, you'll get over it. . .  maybe just arrive at your designation 30 seconds to a minute late.

If you want to back into me, go right ahead, but I don't think that will end well for you. If you think it will, then go find someone who is parking where they shouldn't be and back into them and then make up your sorry excuse as to why. Let me know how that goes. It shouldn't be hard as it would appear you live in a city that has these problems. But I really don't think you will do that and just talking shit on a message board, which is cool. You aren't the first and won't be the last.