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Author Topic: License Plate News  (Read 350933 times)

jzn110

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1175 on: September 09, 2019, 04:08:04 PM »

That's what I hate about my plate. It says Pure Michigan at the top in some crap font. Then says michigan.org at the bottom. Plus it's a boring blue and white plate.

SAMSUNG-SM-T377A

You can always opt for the Mackinac Bridge plate. Supposedly the green and blue "Spectacular Peninsulas" plate is still being sold, too.

While I'm not a huge fan of either of those designs, they're still vastly better than the plain white plate - which itself looked better when it had the blue bar on top instead of on the bottom, because now all of the "specialty registration" plates (trailers, municipal vehicles, commercial trucks, fundraiser plates, etc.) are plain boring white all around.

Also, the "Pure Michigan" logo is too small to be legible. I get that this is a restriction because of how the logo is designed, but you'd think they'd work on creating a modified version for the plate that makes the "PURE ICHIGAN" larger in proportion to the M so it's more readable, without super compromising the overall brand.

While I was originally glad that they phased out the blue plate because of how dated it was looking, the white plate isn't much better. Now that the blue plate has been gone for several years, I wouldn't mind seeing the standard plate redesigned back to a blue plate with white numbers, but with the "Pure Michigan" logo for a modern touch:

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renegade

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1176 on: September 09, 2019, 11:25:26 PM »

^^ So we can carry them around for the next thirty twenty  years! ^^
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LM117

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1177 on: September 29, 2019, 08:25:53 AM »

North Carolina just passed a law requiring license plates to be replaced every 7 years.

https://abc11.com/politics/new-law-requires-nc-drivers-to-replace-their-license-plates-every-7-years/5575767/
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kalvado

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1178 on: September 29, 2019, 09:16:23 AM »

North Carolina just passed a law requiring license plates to be replaced every 7 years.

https://abc11.com/politics/new-law-requires-nc-drivers-to-replace-their-license-plates-every-7-years/5575767/
Makes sense. But I would hate to be the guy who moves out of state after living there for 7.5 years...
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wanderer2575

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1179 on: September 29, 2019, 09:38:07 AM »

That's what I hate about my plate. It says Pure Michigan at the top in some crap font. Then says michigan.org at the bottom. Plus it's a boring blue and white plate.

I really liked my "Great Lakes Splendor" plate with the sunrise/sunset and the Mackinac Bridge but I was forced to replace it because of the stupid 10-year rule, and of course it was discontinued.  I now have a "Spectacular Peninsulas" plate, which is the next best alternative.  I refuse to get anything with the "Pure Michigan" tagline, which has become a cultlike way of life.
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LM117

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1180 on: September 29, 2019, 10:26:51 AM »

North Carolina just passed a law requiring license plates to be replaced every 7 years.

https://abc11.com/politics/new-law-requires-nc-drivers-to-replace-their-license-plates-every-7-years/5575767/
Makes sense. But I would hate to be the guy who moves out of state after living there for 7.5 years...

The locals on Facebook, Reddit, and City-Data forum are raising hell about it. I don't see the big deal. I grew up there and plan on moving back soon and I don't have a problem changing plates every 7 years.

Funny thing is that the governor is taking all the heat for it when the two sponsors of the bill in the state House are never mentioned. The governor didn't really care and made no push for it until it landed on his desk.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 10:29:45 AM by LM117 »
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jakeroot

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1181 on: September 29, 2019, 04:12:50 PM »

North Carolina just passed a law requiring license plates to be replaced every 7 years.

https://abc11.com/politics/new-law-requires-nc-drivers-to-replace-their-license-plates-every-7-years/5575767/

WA used to have an identical rule, but phased it out in 2011 with the introduction of seven-digit plates. Any idea what their reasoning was? Unless NC plates are made from copy paper, the reduced-readability reasoning doesn't seem applicable anymore.
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kalvado

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1182 on: September 29, 2019, 05:23:21 PM »

North Carolina just passed a law requiring license plates to be replaced every 7 years.

https://abc11.com/politics/new-law-requires-nc-drivers-to-replace-their-license-plates-every-7-years/5575767/

WA used to have an identical rule, but phased it out in 2011 with the introduction of seven-digit plates. Any idea what their reasoning was? Unless NC plates are made from copy paper, the reduced-readability reasoning doesn't seem applicable anymore.
So how long, from your pespective, should a license plate last? 1000 years? I don't think so..
Front plate faces bombardment by high speed particles - dust, sand - which are often pretty abrasive. That definitely means finitle lifetime.
Direct sun exposure is another pretty much unavoidable factor, especially if plates are not black and white. 
People seem pretty reluctant to change plates on condition; so fixed life is the next best option. Any other suggestions?
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jakeroot

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1183 on: September 29, 2019, 06:41:33 PM »

North Carolina just passed a law requiring license plates to be replaced every 7 years.

https://abc11.com/politics/new-law-requires-nc-drivers-to-replace-their-license-plates-every-7-years/5575767/

WA used to have an identical rule, but phased it out in 2011 with the introduction of seven-digit plates. Any idea what their reasoning was? Unless NC plates are made from copy paper, the reduced-readability reasoning doesn't seem applicable anymore.
So how long, from your pespective, should a license plate last? 1000 years? I don't think so..
Front plate faces bombardment by high speed particles - dust, sand - which are often pretty abrasive. That definitely means finitle lifetime.
Direct sun exposure is another pretty much unavoidable factor, especially if plates are not black and white. 
People seem pretty reluctant to change plates on condition; so fixed life is the next best option. Any other suggestions?

Well, of course plates don't last forever. But I think most are designed to last the lifetime of the average car, if not much longer. Any that can't likely have too many graphics (like pictures or other crap).

Most countries, that I've seen, do not require plate-swapping. Licence plates last the lifetime of the vehicle, and are only replaced if stolen, damaged, or begin to peel.

Here's an idea: if any or all parts of the licence plate digits are hidden or otherwise worn, you should be required to replace them.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 06:52:04 PM by jakeroot »
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kalvado

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1184 on: September 29, 2019, 09:19:41 PM »

North Carolina just passed a law requiring license plates to be replaced every 7 years.

https://abc11.com/politics/new-law-requires-nc-drivers-to-replace-their-license-plates-every-7-years/5575767/

WA used to have an identical rule, but phased it out in 2011 with the introduction of seven-digit plates. Any idea what their reasoning was? Unless NC plates are made from copy paper, the reduced-readability reasoning doesn't seem applicable anymore.
So how long, from your pespective, should a license plate last? 1000 years? I don't think so..
Front plate faces bombardment by high speed particles - dust, sand - which are often pretty abrasive. That definitely means finitle lifetime.
Direct sun exposure is another pretty much unavoidable factor, especially if plates are not black and white. 
People seem pretty reluctant to change plates on condition; so fixed life is the next best option. Any other suggestions?

Well, of course plates don't last forever. But I think most are designed to last the lifetime of the average car, if not much longer. Any that can't likely have too many graphics (like pictures or other crap).

Most countries, that I've seen, do not require plate-swapping. Licence plates last the lifetime of the vehicle, and are only replaced if stolen, damaged, or begin to peel.

Here's an idea: if any or all parts of the licence plate digits are hidden or otherwise worn, you should be required to replace them.

Well... To begin with, in NY plates follow the owner, not the car. Given there are some 90+-year-old drivers making the news -  if not for a mandatory replacement, some 70-75-year-old plates would happen.
Moreover, such ancient plates would become a symbol of status - as it happened in MA - and people would go to great lengths to keep those.
As for plates durability... NY had a mandatory replacement cycle in 2001-2003. I do see plates from that mass replacement on the road, and most of them are worn out - even if letters are totally readable, the retroreflective film is no more. My plates are 12 years old, and they are also perfectly readable. But if this was something I owned upfront, replacement/repairs would be on order.  So the lifetime of a car may be pushing it, at least with technology NYS uses.
On a separate note, plates surface is basically plastic, somewhat similar to plastic headlights. Look at any car parts store - headlight restoration kits are always there...
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jakeroot

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1185 on: September 29, 2019, 10:10:29 PM »

Well... To begin with, in NY plates follow the owner, not the car. Given there are some 90+-year-old drivers making the news -  if not for a mandatory replacement, some 70-75-year-old plates would happen. Moreover, such ancient plates would become a symbol of status - as it happened in MA - and people would go to great lengths to keep those.

Sorry, I didn't realize NYS had such strange licence plate rules. Doesn't make my point moot everywhere else.

In other jurisdictions, plates stay with the car forever, until it is sold, or until the plate is too old. Custom or "antique" plates can be traded amongst owners, but not regular plates. At least not in most states that I've seen.

As for plates durability... NY had a mandatory replacement cycle in 2001-2003. I do see plates from that mass replacement on the road, and most of them are worn out - even if letters are totally readable, the retroreflective film is no more. My plates are 12 years old, and they are also perfectly readable. But if this was something I owned upfront, replacement/repairs would be on order.  So the lifetime of a car may be pushing it, at least with technology NYS uses.
On a separate note, plates surface is basically plastic, somewhat similar to plastic headlights. Look at any car parts store - headlight restoration kits are always there...

I hate to say it, but I think something is wrong with NYS's technology. I see plenty of old plates in my area (mostly old "XMT" plates with the curvy "WASHINGTON" text) that are perfectly readable, and I've never noticed any wearing. CA has a ton of old plates on the road, and they all seem quite readable to me.

If the retroreflective surface is wearing away, that would necessitate replacement. I'm not suggesting that people keep plates well after they've worn out, just that every seven years seems incredibly conservative.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 10:15:01 PM by jakeroot »
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DaBigE

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1186 on: September 29, 2019, 10:17:59 PM »

Well... To begin with, in NY plates follow the owner, not the car. Given there are some 90+-year-old drivers making the news -  if not for a mandatory replacement, some 70-75-year-old plates would happen. Moreover, such ancient plates would become a symbol of status - as it happened in MA - and people would go to great lengths to keep those.

Sorry, I didn't realize NYS had such strange licence plate rules. Doesn't make my point moot everywhere else.

In other jurisdictions, plates stay with the car forever, until it is sold, or until the plate is too old. Custom or "antique" plates can be traded amongst owners, but not regular plates. At least not in most states that I've seen.

Pretty sure they stay with the owner in Wisconsin as well.
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Big John

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1187 on: September 29, 2019, 11:27:12 PM »

Well... To begin with, in NY plates follow the owner, not the car. Given there are some 90+-year-old drivers making the news -  if not for a mandatory replacement, some 70-75-year-old plates would happen. Moreover, such ancient plates would become a symbol of status - as it happened in MA - and people would go to great lengths to keep those.

Sorry, I didn't realize NYS had such strange licence plate rules. Doesn't make my point moot everywhere else.

In other jurisdictions, plates stay with the car forever, until it is sold, or until the plate is too old. Custom or "antique" plates can be traded amongst owners, but not regular plates. At least not in most states that I've seen.

Pretty sure they stay with the owner in Wisconsin as well.
True.  I know in California it stays with the car but it's usual for it to stay with the owner in other states.

ETA: Not sure how reliable this article is but it shows only a handful of states where the plate stays with the vehicle: https://www.quora.com/How-many-states-allow-license-plates-to-stay-with-a-car-when-its-sold
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 11:33:57 PM by Big John »
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jakeroot

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1188 on: September 30, 2019, 12:18:49 AM »

Well... To begin with, in NY plates follow the owner, not the car. Given there are some 90+-year-old drivers making the news -  if not for a mandatory replacement, some 70-75-year-old plates would happen. Moreover, such ancient plates would become a symbol of status - as it happened in MA - and people would go to great lengths to keep those.

Sorry, I didn't realize NYS had such strange licence plate rules. Doesn't make my point moot everywhere else.

In other jurisdictions, plates stay with the car forever, until it is sold, or until the plate is too old. Custom or "antique" plates can be traded amongst owners, but not regular plates. At least not in most states that I've seen.

Pretty sure they stay with the owner in Wisconsin as well.
True.  I know in California it stays with the car but it's usual for it to stay with the owner in other states.

ETA: Not sure how reliable this article is but it shows only a handful of states where the plate stays with the vehicle: https://www.quora.com/How-many-states-allow-license-plates-to-stay-with-a-car-when-its-sold

My first car, which was registered in WA, kept the plate from the last owner. So that map definitely isn't quite right.

I want to make it very clear that it's not normal in most states for the plate to stay with the car forever. What I believe is more normal, is for new licence plates to be issued when a new vehicle registration is established. If you sell private party, of course you may keep the plates, but your next car will also receive new plates from the licencing department as well, so your old plates are free to be used in your home office, on a garage wall, or whatever. But not installed on your new car. Maybe some states allow that, but that's definitely not permitted in WA unless it's a custom or antique plate (both of which can be transferred from car to car).

For the record, what I've underlined and bolded above is what I understand to be the norm in most states. I listed "with the car forever" first, but I'm not trying to imply that that option is the most normal.

EDIT: did a bit more research. Turns out that most states allow you to keep your old plate, but it's not the default option.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 12:22:56 AM by jakeroot »
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mgk920

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1189 on: September 30, 2019, 01:54:31 AM »

Well... To begin with, in NY plates follow the owner, not the car. Given there are some 90+-year-old drivers making the news -  if not for a mandatory replacement, some 70-75-year-old plates would happen. Moreover, such ancient plates would become a symbol of status - as it happened in MA - and people would go to great lengths to keep those.

Sorry, I didn't realize NYS had such strange licence plate rules. Doesn't make my point moot everywhere else.

In other jurisdictions, plates stay with the car forever, until it is sold, or until the plate is too old. Custom or "antique" plates can be traded amongst owners, but not regular plates. At least not in most states that I've seen.

Pretty sure they stay with the owner in Wisconsin as well.

Correct, they stay with the owner in Wisconsin.

Mike
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jakeroot

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1190 on: September 30, 2019, 02:40:53 AM »

Correct, they stay with the owner in Wisconsin.

And are you required to use them on the next car?
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catch22

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1191 on: September 30, 2019, 07:21:37 AM »

Well... To begin with, in NY plates follow the owner, not the car. Given there are some 90+-year-old drivers making the news -  if not for a mandatory replacement, some 70-75-year-old plates would happen. Moreover, such ancient plates would become a symbol of status - as it happened in MA - and people would go to great lengths to keep those.

Sorry, I didn't realize NYS had such strange licence plate rules. Doesn't make my point moot everywhere else.

In other jurisdictions, plates stay with the car forever, until it is sold, or until the plate is too old. Custom or "antique" plates can be traded amongst owners, but not regular plates. At least not in most states that I've seen.

Pretty sure they stay with the owner in Wisconsin as well.

Also Michigan.
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kalvado

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1192 on: September 30, 2019, 07:35:06 AM »

Correct, they stay with the owner in Wisconsin.

And are you required to use them on the next car?
"Required" may not be the right word. In NY question is "do you want to keep your current plates, pay $25 extra for the new set, or $45 for a custom set with your current number?". Of course this comes on top of whatever you pay for a new car, 7.5-8% sales tax, title fee, fee for fee on fees or whatever else the state wants to get from you. On one hand this is small change compared to the car cost, on the other hand it is yet another insult added to all the injuries. So "keep the old plates" is the default option.
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SP Cook

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1193 on: September 30, 2019, 09:48:26 AM »

According to AAA, plates remain with the owner in AL, AZ, AR, CO, CT, DC, FL, GA, HI, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, ME, MD, MI, MS, MO, MT, NV, NJ, NY, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WY, and PR.

That is the majority of states, representing the majority of the population.  Hardly “strange”.

In my state it is simple.  If you trade cars through a dealer, new or used, they just put your old plate on your new car and charge $10 for the transfer.  If you sell your car privately, you keep the plate and take it to the dealer when you buy another car, and it is the same deal.  If you both sell your old car and buy another car privately, or from an out-of-state dealer, you have to take the car and the old plate to the DMV and the fee is double.

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kalvado

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1194 on: September 30, 2019, 09:56:35 AM »



I hate to say it, but I think something is wrong with NYS's technology. I see plenty of old plates in my area (mostly old "XMT" plates with the curvy "WASHINGTON" text) that are perfectly readable, and I've never noticed any wearing. CA has a ton of old plates on the road, and they all seem quite readable to me.

If the retroreflective surface is wearing away, that would necessitate replacement. I'm not suggesting that people keep plates well after they've worn out, just that every seven years seems incredibly conservative.
and we may be setting the bar a bit differently. Just to be clear what we're talking about:
https://imgur.com/a/OlDeHX4
This is a plate I saw on a parking lot this morning. Probably issued early 2002 during mass replacement. It is still quite readable, but
if this was something I owned upfront, replacement/repairs would be on order.
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PHLBOS

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1195 on: September 30, 2019, 11:31:27 AM »

According to AAA, plates remain with the owner in AL, AZ, AR, CO, CT, DC, FL, GA, HI, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, ME, MD, MI, MS, MO, MT, NV, NJ, NY, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WY, and PR.
I believe similar is true for MA.
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jakeroot

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1196 on: September 30, 2019, 04:00:25 PM »

That is the majority of states, representing the majority of the population.  Hardly “strange”.

That they stay with the owner is not strange. What is strange to me, is that they both stay with the owner AND are put on the new car. That's the case in New York, but I was not aware of that being the case in other states.

In WA, any time you register a car for the first time, you are automatically issued new licence plates ($10 fee). You may transfer your old ones to your new car (again, for $10), but it's exceedingly rare to see anyone do that.

As to the original point, here in WA, there's no reason to automatically replace licence plates on a schedule because 99% are replaced automatically whenever a car is bought and/or sold. Unless you keep your car for an exceedingly lengthy amount of time, the chance of the plate wearing to the point of being unreadable or non-reflective is quite slim; most licence plates should easily outlast the average length of car ownership, which is about 6 years according to Autotrader. For the few people who religiously transfer their plates, the onus is on them to ensure lasting readability.

** In states like NY, where licence plates stay with the owner and they go on the new car automatically, of course replacement schedules would be required. I doubt most drivers would ever take the time to notice when they need to be replaced. I would never argue against replacement schedules in states that operate like this. If I otherwise implied as much, my apologies. **
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SP Cook

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1197 on: September 30, 2019, 04:11:18 PM »

It is not strange at all.  I trade cars more frequently than most people, and I have had plates that have been on upwards of 8 cars.  People know I’m not environmentalist, but why make a new plate when you have a perfectly fine one in hand?  And, since my state, like most, gives no refunds, why waste the months remaining on your old plate for a new one?  So when I trade cars, I gladly pay the $10 and move the plate, and the remaining months, to my new car.
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kalvado

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1198 on: September 30, 2019, 04:48:42 PM »

That is the majority of states, representing the majority of the population.  Hardly “strange”.

That they stay with the owner is not strange. What is strange to me, is that they both stay with the owner AND are put on the new car. That's the case in New York, but I was not aware of that being the case in other states.

In WA, any time you register a car for the first time, you are automatically issued new licence plates ($10 fee). You may transfer your old ones to your new car (again, for $10), but it's exceedingly rare to see anyone do that.

As to the original point, here in WA, there's no reason to automatically replace licence plates on a schedule because 99% are replaced automatically whenever a car is bought and/or sold. Unless you keep your car for an exceedingly lengthy amount of time, the chance of the plate wearing to the point of being unreadable or non-reflective is quite slim; most licence plates should easily outlast the average length of car ownership, which is about 6 years according to Autotrader. For the few people who religiously transfer their plates, the onus is on them to ensure lasting readability.

** In states like NY, where licence plates stay with the owner and they go on the new car automatically, of course replacement schedules would be required. I doubt most drivers would ever take the time to notice when they need to be replaced. I would never argue against replacement schedules in states that operate like this. If I otherwise implied as much, my apologies. **
Let me put it so: WA has a system which generally limits lifetime of a plate, but not in a strict way. We're talking about NC system which limits lifetime of a plate by default, and NY tries to do that in a manual mode with a separate replacement legislation for each round, with a lot of political blame going around. Ultimate goal is the same in all cases - ensure that plates don't outlive their useful life.
I can see advantages of all approaches - as well as disadvantages. Fixed plate lifetime is a bit more comfortable concept for me, but that is just me. Infinite plate lifetime is what we want to avoid. Part of NY problem, plates are issued without any conditions attached - and people imply they will legally last forever (at least they pretend so).
Giving some upfront expectation about how long plate would last (e.g. 10 years until state unconditionally demands replacement, with 5 year quality guarantee via free/discounted replacement; if you damage it or it fades after 5 years - its on you) looks fair for me. After all, we do have driver licenses replaced every few years with the expiration date pre-printed on a document -  and people accept that.   
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jakeroot

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Re: License Plate News
« Reply #1199 on: September 30, 2019, 07:16:20 PM »

It is not strange at all.  I trade cars more frequently than most people, and I have had plates that have been on upwards of 8 cars.  People know I’m not environmentalist, but why make a new plate when you have a perfectly fine one in hand?  And, since my state, like most, gives no refunds, why waste the months remaining on your old plate for a new one?  So when I trade cars, I gladly pay the $10 and move the plate, and the remaining months, to my new car.

So what's the default option in your state when you buy a new car? Here in WA, it would be new plates. They don't come to you and ask for an ultimatum. You have to tell them you want to keep your old plates in order to proceed with that process. Most buyers of new cars drive around with a piece of paper in the rear window (temp plate), until their new plates arrive by mail. The plates on the last car go with that car, and are sometimes dual-posted alongside temp plates when the car is sold again, although dealers should know to remove the old plates. You could take the plates off your last car, but I just very seldom see that. Perhaps for this reason...

...Here in WA (getting tired of writing that), you cannot transfer registration to a new vehicle. The only "transferable" item is the plate number itself. You must re-register your vehicle, pay all applicable fees, install your new plate stickers (including your [probably] new expiration month, and year), ensure that your new registration's listed plate number is identical to your old plates that you've transferred, and then you're good to go. Sure, if I renew my registration in July and then buy a car in August, I have to pay all those fees again. But hey, we don't have an income tax, so the state has to make money somehow!

Let me put it so: WA has a system which generally limits lifetime of a plate, but not in a strict way. We're talking about NC system which limits lifetime of a plate by default, and NY tries to do that in a manual mode with a separate replacement legislation for each round, with a lot of political blame going around. Ultimate goal is the same in all cases - ensure that plates don't outlive their useful life.
I can see advantages of all approaches - as well as disadvantages. Fixed plate lifetime is a bit more comfortable concept for me, but that is just me. Infinite plate lifetime is what we want to avoid. Part of NY problem, plates are issued without any conditions attached - and people imply they will legally last forever (at least they pretend so).
Giving some upfront expectation about how long plate would last (e.g. 10 years until state unconditionally demands replacement, with 5 year quality guarantee via free/discounted replacement; if you damage it or it fades after 5 years - its on you) looks fair for me. After all, we do have driver licenses replaced every few years with the expiration date pre-printed on a document -  and people accept that.   

I don't think it's unreasonable to think we could come up with a plate design that could last an 50 or 60 years. Embossing might be a consideration, as would be avoiding the use of highly-stylised designs with colors that could wear at various paces.

Looking back at the image you posted of a worn NY plate, it's significantly more worn that I would expect of a similar WA plate of that year. But, because WA's required replacement schedule only went away a few years ago, I really don't know for sure how well our particular design would age. My only references for old plates are older XMT (exempt) plates, some of which date back to the mid-90s (but are usually government cars with low miles), or the older green-on-white designs that are common on collector vehicles. Most of these were long replaced through the old replacement schedule system, but are now being passed around on the private market by those who retained their plates (instead of recycling them). They all seem to be in decent shape, although collector cars likely accrue fewer miles.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 07:19:38 PM by jakeroot »
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