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Author Topic: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?  (Read 15925 times)

DaBigE

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #225 on: February 28, 2019, 08:58:04 AM »

My previous vehicle dropped the tenths as soon as I rolled over 100K. My current vehicle has never displayed tenths of a mile.

You don't have a trip odometer?

It does, but I don't have it displayed very often. Outside of checking it at the gas station, I rarely ever have it displayed.
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kphoger

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #226 on: February 28, 2019, 01:34:11 PM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

Figuring out sixths is worse.  And I have to do this a lot when converting between minutes and the decimal of an hour.

e.g.  50 minutes = 0.833333 hours
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Brandon

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #227 on: February 28, 2019, 07:05:03 PM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #228 on: February 28, 2019, 07:11:49 PM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.
I would say only in Chicago, but I’m sure there are other cities that use the 8 blocks to 1 mile grid

There exists the 10 blocks to 1 mile grid as well. I believe NYC uses this (among others)?

Of course, not all cities even have a grid system, and rural areas it is pretty useless, the concept of a street block grid
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TBKS1

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #229 on: February 28, 2019, 07:30:02 PM »

When it comes to AHTD or ARDOT, I would probably say that we have a lot of separate state highways with the same number, just like what Indiana does.
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Big John

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #230 on: February 28, 2019, 07:58:31 PM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.
I would say only in Chicago, but I’m sure there are other cities that use the 8 blocks to 1 mile grid

There exists the 10 blocks to 1 mile grid as well. I believe NYC uses this (among others)?

Of course, not all cities even have a grid system, and rural areas it is pretty useless, the concept of a street block grid
Milwaukee is odd as it uses 8 blocks to a mile north-south but 16 blocks to a mile east-west.
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jakeroot

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #231 on: March 01, 2019, 01:37:00 AM »

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Scott5114

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #232 on: March 01, 2019, 02:06:10 AM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.

Thanks, that's very helpful.
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1995hoo

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #233 on: March 01, 2019, 07:25:09 AM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.
just remember that 2/8 = 1/4 and you're good

The real issue is, there should be no reason to be trying to deal with this nonsense when you’re driving!
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froggie

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #234 on: March 01, 2019, 08:24:16 AM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.

Not really.  1/8 is one block, with 8 blocks to the mile.
I would say only in Chicago, but I’m sure there are other cities that use the 8 blocks to 1 mile grid

There exists the 10 blocks to 1 mile grid as well. I believe NYC uses this (among others)?

Of course, not all cities even have a grid system, and rural areas it is pretty useless, the concept of a street block grid
Milwaukee is odd as it uses 8 blocks to a mile north-south but 16 blocks to a mile east-west.

Odd, but not unheard of.  Minneapolis and those suburbs whose street grids are based on Minneapolis do the same thing.  St. Paul, meanwhile, reverses the north-south and east-west.
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Zeffy

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #235 on: March 01, 2019, 08:38:15 AM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.
just remember that 2/8 = 1/4 and you're good

The real issue is, there should be no reason to be trying to deal with this nonsense when you’re driving!

Who has time to do mental math when driving  :sombrero:
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DaBigE

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #236 on: March 01, 2019, 09:26:56 AM »

Fifths are at least easy to convert to decimals, if you know ⅕ = 0.2.

Eighths are a thing of the devil. Trying to add multiples of 0.125 is a pain in the ass.
just remember that 2/8 = 1/4 and you're good

The real issue is, there should be no reason to be trying to deal with this nonsense when you’re driving!

Who has the time ability to do mental math when driving  :sombrero:

FIFY...given the state of today's seemingly shorter attention spans and reliance on technology
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J N Winkler

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #237 on: March 01, 2019, 11:03:21 AM »

I suspect grid patterns of eighth-mile blocks along one axis and sixteenth-mile blocks along the other are actually pretty common, simply because it makes it easier to lay out oblong rectangular plots of land for single-family houses.  Wichita has such a pattern, oriented the same as Milwaukee's.
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kphoger

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #238 on: March 01, 2019, 01:37:10 PM »

1/8 [of a mile] is one block

where

The third most populous city in America.
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MikieTimT

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #239 on: March 01, 2019, 01:55:02 PM »

When it comes to AHTD or ARDOT, I would probably say that we have a lot of separate state highways with the same number, just like what Indiana does.

Oh, there's already a topic on the forum about what ARDOT does in regards to discontinuous segments of a given route number.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23224.0
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Brandon

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #240 on: March 01, 2019, 04:50:48 PM »

1/8 [of a mile] is one block

where

The third most populous city in America.

And many, many other areas of the country on the PLSS.
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Bickendan

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #241 on: March 01, 2019, 10:33:33 PM »

Meanwhile, Portland uses 20 blocks to the mile.
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roadman65

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #242 on: March 01, 2019, 10:49:25 PM »

FDOT having each district have their own designs and sign practices

For example District 4 uses NY and NC type of signing with guide signs at intersections of two or more state routes to have mileage numbers.  Then post intersection mileage signs are like GDOT using the next two cities instead of the usual next city/ primary control city like the rest of Florida does.

Then in District 6 (Miami-Dade and Monroe) the 60 mph two lane road max rural speed limit is not applied to rural roads like US 1 and US 41.  Most likely due to the engineers used to seeing urban areas as most of their district is in the Miami metro area.  Other districts impliments that including District 3 (Panhandle) who signs 60 mph sparingly.

Then US 98 in South Florida is signed E-W due to the D-4 engineers following the cardinal rule to the T of even numbers signed east- west and the fact that east of Belle Glade concurrent with SR 80, the US route is primarily east-west.  However, being that it is signed North- South from the Martin- Okeechobee County Line to Perry it should either be signed N-S all the way to Palm Beach or District 1 should sign US 98 as East- West from where US 98 breaks from US 27 south of Sebring.  As from US 27 to Okeechobee it does run more east-west and at Fort Bassinger n it turns SW to NE. So in essence S Bound US 98 runs northeast where it crosses the Kissimmee River.  So from south of Sebring to Perry it would be N-S and the rest of FL would be E-W.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 11:57:43 PM by roadman65 »
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #243 on: March 03, 2019, 08:36:48 AM »

1/8 [of a mile] is one block

where

The third most populous city in America.

Except for the blocks between Madison/Roosevelt (1/12), Roosevelt/Cermak (1/10) and Cermak/31st (1/9)
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #244 on: March 03, 2019, 04:30:56 PM »

In downtown Salt Lake City, a block is equal to 792 feet (0.15 miles), so a mile is 6.66... blocks, and 20 blocks is exactly equal to 3 miles

I've seen some places on the internet cite an 8-block mile for Salt Lake City, which would be based on a 660-foot block. While a Salt Lake City block is indeed 660 feet on each side, the problem with that is it doesn't account for the width of the street, which is an astonishing 132 feet because Brigham Young wanted a wagon to be able to turn around.

This holds for anywhere east of the Jordan River and north of about 4500 South. To the south and west, the grid breaks down, and the coordinate numbers of the streets aren't exact. This is especially obvious in the west valley, where the coordinates for the section line roads can be either 600, 700, or 800 units apart.
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kphoger

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #245 on: March 04, 2019, 02:14:47 PM »




1/8 [of a mile] is one block

where

The third most populous city in America.

Except for the blocks between Madison/Roosevelt (1/12), Roosevelt/Cermak (1/10) and Cermak/31st (1/9)

Some of those are iffy, IMHO.

The Eisenhower screws up the blocks between Madison and Roosevelt pretty much all the way across Chicago, such that it's almost impossible to say exactly what the blocks are between the two.  Go down Austin Blvd, for example (perhaps the least messed up by the Ike), and you hit the following cross-streets:  Adams, Jackson, (Van Buren), Harrison, Garfield, Arthington, Fillmore, Roosevelt.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 0 North/South to 1200 South.

Between Roosevelt and Cermak, things are a little squirrely, too.  17th Street basically doesn't exist anywhere west of California (except for a one-block tidbit at Kostner), and it's only one block between 16th and 18th.  A similar thing happens at 20th Street:  West of Racine, Cullerton basically takes the place of 19th Place, and then the grid basically skips to 21st Street.  It's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 1200 South to 2200 South.

Take a drive down Kedzie from Cermak, and you hit the following cross-streets:  23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 30th, 31st.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 29th Street doesn't exist anywhere west of Racine.  So it's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 3100 South.
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jakeroot

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #246 on: March 04, 2019, 04:48:11 PM »

For the record (as I did not reply until now), while Chicago does use 1/8 mile blocks, this is not necessarily common to all cities. Of the ten largest cities in Washington, only two, Federal Way and Bellevue, come even close to a 660-foot block length ("10 chains"). But, even those are additionally split into 1/3 and 1/2 blocks, respectively, making the blocks (to the typical driver) much shorter than 660 feet. The "splitting" streets are numbered the same as the streets placed at 660-foot intervals, further compounding the issue.

The other issue is that, while on the freeway, blocks aren't even remotely relevant. An exit might say "1/4 MILE", which is apparently equivalent to travelling 1/48 of a township? But how would someone reference those block sizes while on the freeway? Especially at Chicago freeway speeds, which may very well be three times the speed of downtown traffic.
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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #247 on: March 04, 2019, 06:03:15 PM »




1/8 [of a mile] is one block

where

The third most populous city in America.

Except for the blocks between Madison/Roosevelt (1/12), Roosevelt/Cermak (1/10) and Cermak/31st (1/9)

Some of those are iffy, IMHO.

The Eisenhower screws up the blocks between Madison and Roosevelt pretty much all the way across Chicago, such that it's almost impossible to say exactly what the blocks are between the two.  Go down Austin Blvd, for example (perhaps the least messed up by the Ike), and you hit the following cross-streets:  Adams, Jackson, (Van Buren), Harrison, Garfield, Arthington, Fillmore, Roosevelt.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 0 North/South to 1200 South.

Between Roosevelt and Cermak, things are a little squirrely, too.  17th Street basically doesn't exist anywhere west of California (except for a one-block tidbit at Kostner), and it's only one block between 16th and 18th.  A similar thing happens at 20th Street:  West of Racine, Cullerton basically takes the place of 19th Place, and then the grid basically skips to 21st Street.  It's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 1200 South to 2200 South.

Take a drive down Kedzie from Cermak, and you hit the following cross-streets:  23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 30th, 31st.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 29th Street doesn't exist anywhere west of Racine.  So it's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 3100 South.
I think you mean it's eight streets not eight blocks. Generally in Chicago there is one street in between a block. I know the Bridgeport neighborhood pretty good so I'll use 31st Street between Canal and Halsted. You have Canal, Normal, Parnell, Wallace, Lowe, Union, Emerald, Halsted. That's eight streets but 0 E/W is State Street and 800W is Halsted. So basically in a half mile there are eight streets. Canal isn't exactly on dot 400W I think it's something like 432W if I can remember right.

With streets being discontinuous I think that's why you get a lot of streets that are skipped. In my city (Saginaw, MI) 4th Street runs next to Genesee and has 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th running in the correct order with 8th being skipped since it ended at Wadsworth on the north side of I-675. 4th runs on an angle and 5th-11th Streets start ending as you go south so by the time it crosses it's third to last street before it ends 12th Street is running a block away.
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Super Mateo

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #248 on: March 04, 2019, 07:42:05 PM »

Take a drive down Kedzie from Cermak, and you hit the following cross-streets:  23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th, 30th, 31st.  That's the typical eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 29th Street doesn't exist anywhere west of Racine.  So it's basically eight blocks, despite having gone from 2200 South to 3100 South.

I drove Pulaski southbound from Ogden to Southwest Highway the other day, and it's very similar to Kedzie.  26th (with a set of really old traffic signals) is the half mile marker.  South of there, it's 27th, 28th, 30th, and 31st.  29th doesn't exist over there, as it skips right from 28th to 30th.  Looking at the map, each block seems equidistant, even though there is no 29th.  It's more of a numbering quirk than anything else.  How it got to be this way is something I'm going to have to research one day.
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kphoger

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Re: Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?
« Reply #249 on: March 04, 2019, 08:58:00 PM »

I think you mean it's eight streets not eight blocks. Generally in Chicago there is one street in between a block.

That's not a simple distinction.

On a basic level, in the real world, eight streets means the same thing as eight blocks.  If you take a walk around the block, then you walk a rectangle by turning the same direction at every intersection.  Living two blocks down the street from your in-laws means you pass two intersections along the way to their house.

However, it gets a little squirrely when city blocks are not squares.  As J N Winkler pointed out, Wichita has eight "blocks" per mile going north-south but sixteen "blocks" per mile going east-west.  Theoretically, however, I still think of this as being eight blocks per mile all around—no matter the number of streets.  The basic grid is still eight by eight;  it's just that there are twice as many streets crammed in along one of the axes.

I know the Bridgeport neighborhood pretty good so I'll use 31st Street between Canal and Halsted. You have Canal, Normal, Parnell, Wallace, Lowe, Union, Emerald, Halsted. That's eight streets but 0 E/W is State Street and 800W is Halsted. So basically in a half mile there are eight streets. Canal isn't exactly on dot 400W I think it's something like 432W if I can remember right.

Yeah, using streets that aren't actually on a x00 line isn't particularly useful.  It's also only seven streets, since you shouldn't be counting the one you start out from.

A more useful example in Bridgeport would be 31st Street between Halsted (800 West) and Racine (1200 West).  Streets encountered:  Lituanica, Morgan, Aberdeen, May, Racine.  At first glance, it appears to be five blocks within a half-mile, but Aberdeen–May–Racine is really the same distance as one "block", so it shouldn't really count as two.

The way I look at the Madison–Roosevelt, Roosevelt–Cermak, and Cermak–31st anomalies is that the house numbering was simply altered to fit more numbers in.  In most neighborhoods, the basic grid pattern is still eight blocks per mile (with alterations varying by neighborhood), despite the house numbers.
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