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Author Topic: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion  (Read 1332 times)

golden eagle

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nexus73

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2019, 07:59:29 PM »

I wonder what we can get for that tiny piece of Minnesota which sticks into Molsen Country?

Rick
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2019, 08:02:41 PM »

When I saw this thread title, I was thinking both "this should belong in the create your own news stories thread" and "it's not April 1". I didn't realize this was a real petition, although it's even less likely to pass than the "3 Californias" petition.
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2019, 08:05:04 PM »

what
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2019, 08:14:04 PM »

When I saw this thread title, I was thinking both "this should belong in the create your own news stories thread" and "it's not April 1". I didn't realize this was a real petition, although it's even less likely to pass than the "3 Californias" petition.

Well, all petitons are real. Are they serious? Not really.
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2019, 08:24:54 PM »

But if we sell Montana to Canada, how will rich guys evade paying taxes on their cars?
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nexus73

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2019, 09:48:36 PM »

But if we sell Montana to Canada, how will rich guys evade paying taxes on their cars?

Oregon!  Ever wonder why we have large RV manufacturing here?  Got half a mil or more to spend on something bigger than a Greyhound bus?  Well folks, let me introduce you to Oregon, where there is no sales tax on vehicles or at least none until a little while ago, when new vehicle sales got a tax slapped on them.  These dealers knew the shady side of setting the expensive RV owners up with an Oregon title and registration but eventually the state squeezed them hard so there went that deal.

Today to transfer a title is over $100 and registration for two years is over $100.  When I bought my first car in the summer of 1973, title transfers were $2 and registration for two years was $10.  Boy howdy, did we have it good!

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2019, 10:59:26 PM »

But if we sell Montana to Canada, how will rich guys evade paying taxes on their cars?

Oregon!  Ever wonder why we have large RV manufacturing here?  Got half a mil or more to spend on something bigger than a Greyhound bus?  Well folks, let me introduce you to Oregon, where there is no sales tax on vehicles or at least none until a little while ago, when new vehicle sales got a tax slapped on them.  These dealers knew the shady side of setting the expensive RV owners up with an Oregon title and registration but eventually the state squeezed them hard so there went that deal.

Today to transfer a title is over $100 and registration for two years is over $100.  When I bought my first car in the summer of 1973, title transfers were $2 and registration for two years was $10.  Boy howdy, did we have it good!

Rick
Montana has a loophole where you can establish an LLC there, buy a car anywhere but register it in Montana, pay no taxes on it, and be able to drive it in whatever state you actually reside. Lots of rich people use the loophole to buy supercars and not pay tax on them. Some states are cracking down on it.
https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/out-of-state-car-buyers-use-montana-llc-s-to/article_b4b37d29-e894-523e-b0ed-be7c0bf7e398.html
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 11:02:32 PM by Takumi »
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2019, 11:41:30 PM »

RIP I-90. Would need to build something through Yellowstone and the mountains.
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nexus73

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 12:15:40 AM »

But if we sell Montana to Canada, how will rich guys evade paying taxes on their cars?

Oregon!  Ever wonder why we have large RV manufacturing here?  Got half a mil or more to spend on something bigger than a Greyhound bus?  Well folks, let me introduce you to Oregon, where there is no sales tax on vehicles or at least none until a little while ago, when new vehicle sales got a tax slapped on them.  These dealers knew the shady side of setting the expensive RV owners up with an Oregon title and registration but eventually the state squeezed them hard so there went that deal.

Today to transfer a title is over $100 and registration for two years is over $100.  When I bought my first car in the summer of 1973, title transfers were $2 and registration for two years was $10.  Boy howdy, did we have it good!

Rick
Montana has a loophole where you can establish an LLC there, buy a car anywhere but register it in Montana, pay no taxes on it, and be able to drive it in whatever state you actually reside. Lots of rich people use the loophole to buy supercars and not pay tax on them. Some states are cracking down on it.
https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/out-of-state-car-buyers-use-montana-llc-s-to/article_b4b37d29-e894-523e-b0ed-be7c0bf7e398.html

Wow, that is the first I have heard of this going on in Montana!  Anytime a level of government decides to raise the taxes, people will behave like water and find a way to leak out of the system.  Then that level of government has to go on a chase to get their money back!  California just recently had a story come from there about reducing MJ taxes since they were so high that the black market was still flourishing. 

Rick
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kphoger

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2019, 02:56:41 PM »

Montana has a loophole where you can establish an LLC there, buy a car anywhere but register it in Montana, pay no taxes on it, and be able to drive it in whatever state you actually reside. Lots of rich people use the loophole to buy supercars and not pay tax on them. Some states are cracking down on it.

Yep.  The owner of the company I work for had his RV tagged with Montana plates, and that's exactly how he did it.  That was before he had a front tire had a blowout while driving 70-75 mph on the turnpike, they miraculously managed to not flip the thing and kill people, and the frame was torqued beyond easy repair.  I'm not even sure if he plans to buy a new one or not.
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2019, 04:18:21 PM »

US without Montana would be some real bordergore.
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2019, 04:24:42 PM »

US without Montana would be some real bordergore.

It wouldn't look any more out of place than Sault Ste. Marie to Montreal belonging to Canada instead of the US, with the exception that in the case of Montana moving to Canada, the BC/ID and SK/ND borders would still line up perfectly.
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nexus73

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2019, 04:36:42 PM »

54 40 Or Fight!  That was then.  Now it's "$1 Trillion Gets You A State!".  Imagine a group of billionaires getting together and buying one...

The last time the US purchased land from another nation was 1917.  We bought the Virgin Islands from Denmark.  102 years later and now we are selling...LOL!

Rick
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2019, 06:00:13 PM »

I wonder what we can get for that tiny piece of Minnesota which sticks into Molsen Country?

Rick

While we're at it, we could add Point Roberts along with some parts of Alaska panhandle, Northern Maine, Campobello Island to the list. ;) 
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2019, 08:44:36 PM »

I can think of some states I'd rather sell off than Montana. The US would probably be better off without Oklahoma, for instance.

Wait, shit.
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2019, 09:13:54 PM »

Sell off 22 more states, and we'd be out of debt.
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nexus73

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2019, 10:25:45 PM »

I can think of some states I'd rather sell off than Montana. The US would probably be better off without Oklahoma, for instance.

Wait, shit.

I wonder which state would be the best one to sell?  So far our best deals were the Louisiana Purchase and Seward's Folly when being the buyer.  Do we go for maximum dinero or do we sell off our equivalent of Baltic and Mediterranean? 

Want another option?  Robert Heinlein wrote a book about such and given how people like Musk and Branson are going, we may get such a future.  Here is a blurb I found:

"The Man Who Sold the Moon" is a science fiction novella by American author Robert A. Heinlein, written in 1949 and published in 1950. A part of his Future History and prequel to "Requiem", it covers events around a fictional first Moon landing in 1978 and the schemes of Delos D. Harriman, a businessman who is determined to personally reach and control the Moon.

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Bruce

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2019, 12:16:49 AM »

We could pay off the entire national debt by selling Washington. We'd be sad to go, but I'd love to remain a resident of Canadian Washington.

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2019, 01:30:22 AM »

I can think of some states I'd rather sell off than Montana. The US would probably be better off without Oklahoma, for instance.

Wait, shit.

I wonder which state would be the best one to sell?

If you were to run the country like a business, you would want to sell the lowest-performing states, i.e. the ones that have the lowest per-capita GDP. Using 2015 stats (which are the most recent ones Wikipedia has), that would say you would sell Mississippi, West Virginia, and Idaho first.

Alaska actually performs better than New York on a per-capita basis, the only state that does so.
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2019, 08:55:24 AM »

North Dakota should go first
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2019, 12:54:15 PM »

BTW, while the whole concept is silly in the first place, basic Constitutional law would teach us that Montana is not the USA's to sell, because the USA is a creation of the states, not the other way around.  If you want to make a business analogy, Montana owns a 1/50th share in a corporation known as the "USA".

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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2019, 01:13:01 PM »

BTW, while the whole concept is silly in the first place, basic Constitutional law would teach us that Montana is not the USA's to sell, because the USA is a creation of the states, not the other way around.  If you want to make a business analogy, Montana owns a 1/50th share in a corporation known as the "USA".

And they'd need Montana's willingness and agreement to go in any case as no state can be removed from the Union without its own consent.
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2019, 04:19:05 PM »

BTW, while the whole concept is silly in the first place, basic Constitutional law would teach us that Montana is not the USA's to sell, because the USA is a creation of the states, not the other way around.  If you want to make a business analogy, Montana owns a 1/50th share in a corporation known as the "USA".

And they'd need Montana's willingness and agreement to go in any case as no state can be removed from the Union without its own consent.
Well, the constitution could be changed.
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Re: Petition offered to sell Montana to Canada for $1 trillion
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2019, 04:26:33 PM »

BTW, while the whole concept is silly in the first place, basic Constitutional law would teach us that Montana is not the USA's to sell, because the USA is a creation of the states, not the other way around.  If you want to make a business analogy, Montana owns a 1/50th share in a corporation known as the "USA".

And they'd need Montana's willingness and agreement to go in any case as no state can be removed from the Union without its own consent.
Well, the constitution could be changed.

Almost nobody would agree to make that change.
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