New Jersey Turnpike-Goodbye Neon Signs!

[Ian]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_turnpike_garden_state_parkw.html

Under a $10.9 million contract awarded today by the Turnpike Authority, drivers on the Turnpike and Garden State Parkway will get new, real-time variable message signs warning them about congestion, construction and commotion.

The 33 signs, to be installed between this September and May of next year on two of America's busiest toll roads, will be easier to maintain, have better visibility and be more up to date than the old signs, officials say

Though these signs may be better for the Turnpike, I will be sad once they are taken down and replaced.

Ian

[papaT10932]

It's a shame that the old neon signs are being replaced, because they actually still work. The new e-signs that they installed on I-80 are always malfunctioning. I've never actually seen them work correctly. I'm guessing these new turnpike signs will be just as shoddy.
I don't know where electronic signs are made these days. (Probably China). All I know is they are garbage.

[Scott5114]

VMSes are overrated in general. They seem to be rarely sited in a location that will be useful where unplanned incidents occur. Accidents are random–they aren't planned out to make most efficient use of the VMS network! And if you have a chronic backup site, then the VMS isn't going to be terribly useful because everyone will already know about the backup. Around here they never seem to be used much anyway except for bland messages warning of the possibility of ice.

[TheStranger]

VMSes are overrated in general. They seem to be rarely sited in a location that will be useful where unplanned incidents occur. Accidents are random–they aren't planned out to make most efficient use of the VMS network! And if you have a chronic backup site, then the VMS isn't going to be terribly useful because everyone will already know about the backup. Around here they never seem to be used much anyway except for bland messages warning of the possibility of ice.

The VMSes in California that tend to measure time-to-destination or time-to-junction (very similar to ones I remember seeing in Paris in 2001) do serve a purpose, i.e. when I see the VMS going westbound on I-80 in Fairfield measuring the time to Berkeley and Concord (which gives me info to determine whether I should head to SF via I-80, or via I-680/Route 24).

[Revive 755]

VMSes are overrated in general. They seem to be rarely sited in a location that will be useful where unplanned incidents occur. Accidents are random–they aren't planned out to make most efficient use of the VMS network! And if you have a chronic backup site, then the VMS isn't going to be terribly useful because everyone will already know about the backup. Around here they never seem to be used much anyway except for bland messages warning of the possibility of ice.

Not sure I agree with that, at least for the Missouri side St. Louis area.  Generally there is at least one before a detour option.  Main thing I don't like is when a default construction message is left up for so long that one just assumes that sign is always displaying it, when such a message should be on a separate orange sign.

The chronic backup listings can also be useful for those unfamiliar with the road or area, but this would work better if a default time would be given instead of having to guess how far the destinations are.

The neon signs being replaced in Jersey:  Those are the ones with the many problem choices, such as ice, fog, roadwork?

[Mr. Matté]

Wouldn't it just be cheaper to ditch the neon/vane signs for ones that just say "Speed Limit 75*"?

*Yes, I know it's officially 65 but no one seems to give a crap about that, including me

Maybe this one will outlast the Jersey ones by a couple years at least.

[agentsteel53]

"Speed Limit 75*"?

*Yes, I know it's officially 65

the continued hypocrisy of speed limit enforcement.

if you're going to enforce 75, then just bloody sign 75.  Even the interstate standard specifications say that, on an interstate freeway, no one is to be pulled over for less than five over the limit.

... then why not sign the limit five miles higher?

Maryland has an official statute for freeways, in which no one is to be pulled over for less than twelve over the limit - that's twelve wasted miles per hour, but good luck ever seeing a Speed Limit 77 (or even 75) sign in that state.

I applaud the state of Texas for minimizing the cognitive dissonance - they will pull you over for five over the limit - and, correspondingly, they sign the limit as high as 75 on rural two-lane roads, and even a blessed 80 on various western four-lane interstates.  

(Now can we get them to sign 90 on I-10, because goodness knows the freeways can handle it safely.)

[Alps]

In response to everyone:
1) Easiest one first.  The speed limits will in fact be signed every mile as existing (i.e., variable).
2) Regarding spacing - the ones on the Turnpike will be located once before each interchange, once after each interchange, and every 3-4 miles between the longer ones.  That gives people information at decision points, information upon joining the highway, and keeps it relevant to the next 3 minutes of driving.
3) Regarding how well they work - the ones on I-80 actually aren't broken, it's a question of how often they're used to display a message.  Most of the time they're blank because there are no incidents in range, but EB ones, especially during the morning, will display messages about drive time to the GWB.  I-78 VMS display information about times to the Turnpike.  So there's no question of shoddy (not "shotty") manufacturing even on existing signs, not to mention that the Turnpike may choose a different source and certainly has the money to pay for good quality.
4) Regarding the existing signs - no, many of them do NOT work.  Some are completely broken, some barely functional (as in, you may see "AHEAD" out of the message "CONGESTION AHEAD REDUCE SPEED").  I have a photo of one sign that only says "RED" (from REDUCE) and nothing else.  That's broken.
5) Regarding use of the signs - They will be used for everything the current signs are, except with more descriptive messages.  They will not be used for drive time information, but they will tell you where delays are and how long, which is just about as good.

[Alex]

Those neon signs were always part of the NJ Turnpike experience for me over the years. I have a few videos from the 1990s with various conditions illuminated in their familiar red glow. Here's a photo Carter photographed of one in action in 2005:

[OracleUsr]

Did the GSP ever have neon signs like that?  I drove from Cape May to I-95 in 2007 and don't remember seeing any, but I do remember seeing them on the NJTP en route to Philly.

Yeah, that's a throwback to the past.  AARoads, I might suggest that you put caps of these neon signs on line like you did here; some New Jersey people might like the nostalgia.

[Ian]

I have a few videos from the 1990s with various conditions illuminated in their familiar red glow.

I would like to see them!

[Nexis4Jersey]

This is just as bad as when Amtrak started getting rid of there Solari Broads.  If they still work , then theres no need to be replaced.  What a waste a Tax payer $$$

[NJRoadfan]

The GSP actually has early matrix VMSes installed on the northern section from the late 80s/early 90s. They are not LED signs, but are mechanical with external lighting. Hopefully these signs are used for estimated travel times, whatever they have now goes mostly unused.



NJDOT has been pretty good with using the new VMS installs along I-78/NJ-24 for travel times. It was the last major corridor in the state to get an ITS upgrade. Still waiting for those US-22 travel time signs to appear, but they still haven't gotten around to repaving parts of that highway yet. Its starting to look like PA out there *ducks*.

[Duke87]

They should try auctioning the old ones off. They're iconic enough to actually be worth something to a museum, or a collector, or whomever.

Then the signs survive and the Turnpike Authority makes a few bucks. Win/win for all.

[hm insulators]

They should try auctioning the old ones off. They're iconic enough to actually be worth something to a museum, or a collector, or whomever.

Then the signs survive and the Turnpike Authority makes a few bucks. Win/win for all.

I have a friend in California that collects and restores old neon signs, so he would be interested.

[Alex]

They should try auctioning the old ones off. They're iconic enough to actually be worth something to a museum, or a collector, or whomever.

Then the signs survive and the Turnpike Authority makes a few bucks. Win/win for all.

I have a friend in California that collects and restores old neon signs, so he would be interested.

They'll probably be scrapped, bundled, and shipped off to China... 

[Mr_Northside]

They'll probably be scrapped, bundled, and shipped off to China... 

Which, I wouldn't be surprised, is probably where their replacements are coming from.

(* Speculation based on nothing more than it seems that "everything" is made in China these days)

[D-Dey65]

This is just as bad as when Amtrak started getting rid of there Solari Broads.  If they still work , then theres no need to be replaced.  What a waste a Tax payer $$$

If what you're saying is true, both Amtrak and the New Jersey Turnpike Authority are wasting their money. I honestly didn't notice any difference when I was at Penn Station last time, and I honestly didn't know those boards had a specific name.

Those neon signs were always part of the NJ Turnpike experience for me over the years.

Those signs make the NJ Turnpike the NJ Turnpike!

[Alex]

Old NJ Turnpike, Garden State Parkway signs to be replaced

WOODBRIDGE, N.J. – It's the end of the road for the iconic neon signs that date back to the birth of the New Jersey Turnpike in the 1950s and their somewhat less iconic greenish-yellow-lettered dot matrix cousins on the Garden State Parkway that warned drivers about road conditions ahead.

New Jersey Turnpike Authority commissioners approved two contracts Tuesday totaling $31.63 million to replace 53 of the aging signs with newer, high-tech signs with better graphics that can provide more information to drivers. Both contracts were awarded to PKF Mark III Inc. of Newton, Pa., which submitted the lowest bid for the work. Both contracts are under the authority engineer's estimates of the costs.

Gone will be the old flashing, red neon signs advising drivers to "reduce speed"  or warning them of congestion, construction or bad weather ahead, said Rob Fischer, authority assistant chief engineer. Many of those "fixed message"  signs were part of the original Turnpike construction in the 1950s, but are very limited in the information they can convey, he said.

The dot matrix signs on the Parkway were installed in the 1990s and also are limited in how much information they can display, he said.

The newer signs will have the capability to provide more information with improved graphics and can even reproduce detailed images of road signs, such as interstate highway route signs, Fischer said.

"The graphics are a lot sharper and in color,"  he said. "The advantage for the driver is the information (they provide). If there is an accident, they can make a decision to take an alternate route."

The new signs will be similar to one in service on the Parkway north, just before the Asbury Park toll plaza and on the Turnpike south near interchange 12, Fischer said.

The first contract for $21.653 million would replace 24 neon signs on the Turnpike between Elizabeth and Fort Lee and dot-matrix signs on the Parkway between Wall and Newark. That work is scheduled to start next month and be completed by November 2013.

The second contract of $9.985 million would replace 29 signs on the Parkway between Tinton Falls and Middle Township in Cape May County. That work is scheduled to start next January and be completed by the end of June 2013.

Work done under the contracts includes removing the old signs and support structures, building new foundations and overhead structures, installing the new signs, electrical and other work, Fischer said.

"These contracts are for installing the signs purchased and installing the structures purchased under another contract,"  he said.

All the new signs will be wired into the state-wide Traffic Management Center in Woodbridge.

The Authority commissioners also approved a $2.36 million contract with Bergen County-based M&J Engineering PC of Closter to supervise the sign construction.

[thenetwork]

It's sad that the cub reporters/photographers of not just one, but TWO area newspapers cannot take the extra time to find a file copy of, or to take a picture of, the actual neon signs on the NJT.  

In the first article, the Exit 8A sign photo has no business being in the article and is not part of the upgrade plan (AFAIK), while in the second article they insert a photo of the GSP's VMS, which is to be replaced in the second phase -- it just doesn't have as much of an impact than if they had a picture of a 50+ year old neon sign.

Just my .03  

[Alps]

I have a non-functioning sign on my site currently, but somewhere deep in the backlog is one with at least partial functionality and better resolution. Someday, someday I say, I'll have one preserved!

[ctsignguy]

Here you go...didnt realize when i snapped its portrait 2 years ago it was broken...just happy to have a snap of it working at all...

[relaxok]

Call me crazy, but that's way easier to read than those new 'sharper' signs... And especially those awful yellow LCD things they use all over now that I can barely make out letters on..

[froggie]

I prefer the LEDs.  Much more versatile.

[SteveG1988]

I do beleive this is how the new VMS signs will look. this is near cape may NJ on the parkway.