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Author Topic: DST (Fall 2019)  (Read 7710 times)

KEVIN_224

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2019, 07:00:29 PM »

Then there are the people who want to have Maine on Atlantic Standard Time all year long. Sure! Have a 3:59 AM sunrise in Portland on June 21st and isolate yourself from the rest of New England. NOPE!

I 100% agree with you on Indiana. Indianapolis should be on Central Time. Back in August of 2010, I stayed 3 nights at a hotel on the west side, next to the I-74/I-465 loop. On one of those nights, a preseason NFL game was airing from Nashville. I looked at the TV screen. I looked out of the room's window. The amount of waning sunlight and then dusk was EXACTLY THE SAME! It turns out that they're nearly the same distance west for longitude.

Here by Hartford on June 21st, the day is roughly from 5:15 AM to 8:30 PM (15h 15m).
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Bruce

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2019, 07:34:12 PM »

For the first time in my life, I will be in an airplane during the time change (probably flying over the Mountain Time Zone). Should have a much smaller effect on my body.

That said, the time change is outdated and needs to be replaced with year-round Daylight Time. The West Coast is making a bit of progress on getting this through state legislatures, but it still has to be approved by the federal government...

I get that sunsets before 5pm are no fun, but I'm not in favor of pushing sunrise past 8am to compensate.  Year round DST is a big no from me.

Most people don't use that extra sunlight in the morning for anything but commuting, but pushing sunsets further into the evening allows for recreation and avoids having people commute en masse when the sun is low and in their face. There's probably more than a few collisions attributed to the time change.

tolbs17

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2019, 08:15:48 PM »

Then there are the people who want to have Maine on Atlantic Standard Time all year long. Sure! Have a 3:59 AM sunrise in Portland on June 21st and isolate yourself from the rest of New England. NOPE!

I 100% agree with you on Indiana. Indianapolis should be on Central Time. Back in August of 2010, I stayed 3 nights at a hotel on the west side, next to the I-74/I-465 loop.
How about Michigan? Should they be in the Central Time Zone? Detroit's earliest sunset would be approximately 4pm, but maybe you can invent 30 minute time zones!
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vdeane

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2019, 08:18:09 PM »

Then there are the people who want to have Maine on Atlantic Standard Time all year long. Sure! Have a 3:59 AM sunrise in Portland on June 21st and isolate yourself from the rest of New England. NOPE!
Standard time is what we're on in winter.  Summer sunset times would be unaffected by that proposal.
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ilpt4u

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2019, 08:27:40 PM »

I 100% agree with you on Indiana. Indianapolis should be on Central Time. Back in August of 2010, I stayed 3 nights at a hotel on the west side, next to the I-74/I-465 loop. On one of those nights, a preseason NFL game was airing from Nashville. I looked at the TV screen. I looked out of the room's window. The amount of waning sunlight and then dusk was EXACTLY THE SAME! It turns out that they're nearly the same distance west for longitude.
I think (most of) Indiana worked well on Year Round Eastern Standard Time, which is de facto Central Daylight Time during DST months. That system was abolished in 2006 and the whole state now observes DST

There are a few counties in NW and SW Indiana that are on Central Time Year Round

Reading more of the history of Indiana and Time Zones, the state has apparently gone from Central Time to Eastern Time in various stages
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tdindy88

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2019, 09:38:03 PM »

Don't forget that all of the lower peninsula of Michigan and the eastern half of Kentucky are also in Eastern time, which aligns a little better with Indiana's longitude. It would be a nonstarter today to draw the timezone boundary across the center of the state with the state's largest metro area right in the center. So your options are either drawing along the Illinois line or the Ohio line.

Year round EST was better in hindsight but I think the state was tired of being the butt of "what time is it" jokes and wanted to move along with the rest of the country. Of course it was weird when I was told to turn the clock back when crossing from Ohio back into Indiana when the map in the atlas clearly showed the time zone boundary on the other side of the state.
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webny99

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2019, 09:57:56 PM »

Then there are the people who want to have Maine on Atlantic Standard Time all year long. Sure! Have a 3:59 AM sunrise in Portland on June 21st and isolate yourself from the rest of New England. NOPE!
Standard time is what we're on in winter.  Summer sunset times would be unaffected by that proposal.

He said sunrise.. but yes, correct that neither sunrise nor set would be affected in the summer months. It would essentially be year-round DST, or shifting one time zone east and having no DST, however you look at it.

Regarding Indiana (which seems to get the bulk of the attention despite much of Michigan having an exacerbated version of the same problem), I think they should be on CST. It is just too dark in the mornings right now even here; all the more so further west. Sunrises after 8 AM should be avoided; I know this may not be practical at certain latitudes, but it is certainly reasonable for all of the lower 48 states. Maybe parts of Montana and North Dakota could be exceptions to that rule, but certainly not places as far south as Indiana or Michigan's Lower Peninsula.
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thspfc

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2019, 10:13:12 PM »

I would have no problem with daylight time going year round. I would like to have the sun around until 6:00 (or near then) all winter, and I really don't care when it rises because I'm inside all morning anyways.
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Rothman

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2019, 10:40:49 PM »

Anything to get rid of the switch back to darkness in the morning we now get in the Northeast when we spring forward.  Why there isn't a mass mutiny is beyond me.
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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2019, 10:46:25 PM »

The only thing that needs to change about DST is that it should begin a month later and end a week or two earlier.
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tolbs17

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2019, 11:34:52 PM »

I would have no problem with daylight time going year round. I would like to have the sun around until 6:00 (or near then) all winter, and I really don't care when it rises because I'm inside all morning anyways.
Would be good for the grown adults, but would be a nightmare for the kids. We already have elementary schoolers waiting for the bus in darkness at 7am.

In my words, leave it the way it is. I can get away with dark evenings. Earliest sunset here is 4:56 PM which is not that bad.
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Scott5114

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2019, 11:37:48 PM »

So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?
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jeffandnicole

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2019, 11:44:09 PM »

So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

Nope. All the same shit until they realize that their ideas have unanticipated consequences.
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ozarkman417

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2019, 11:47:45 PM »



How about Michigan? Should they be in the Central Time Zone? Detroit's earliest sunset would be approximately 4pm, but maybe you can invent 30 minute time zones!
Newfoundland, India, and a few other countries already do this.



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renegade

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2019, 11:53:51 PM »



How about Michigan? Should they be in the Central Time Zone? Detroit's earliest sunset would be approximately 4pm, but maybe you can invent 30 minute time zones!
Newfoundland, India, and a few other countries already do this.
Still not a good enough reason for us to do that.
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Scott5114

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2019, 12:00:30 AM »

So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

Nope. All the same shit until they realize that their ideas have unanticipated consequences.

Or that...gasp...different people value different things, and so setting things up to favor their preferences isn't universally seen as good!
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tolbs17

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2019, 12:01:38 AM »

So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?
Nope, I'm trying to not do that. I like DST discussions.

Speaking of DST discussions, I think South Africa and Swaziland and even Brazil should try using DST! That way they can save energy and use the extra hour of daylight for longer outside activities.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2019, 12:13:11 AM »

While I would prefer to have daylight later in the day I do tend to adjust how I budget my time to take advantage of maximum daylight hours.  Right now I've been getting up and out on the road for hiking at about 6 AM which is an hour from sunrise.  I'll have to start getting up at 5 AM now for similar activities but it really isn't all that much of an adjustment given I get up around then on days I run anyways. 

oscar

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2019, 12:40:06 AM »

How about Michigan? Should they be in the Central Time Zone? Detroit's earliest sunset would be approximately 4pm, but maybe you can invent 30 minute time zones!
Newfoundland, India, and a few other countries already do this.

When I've traveled to Newfoundland, I've found its half-hour time zone really aggravating for anything for which I need to synch with Eastern time, such as for watching live sporting events, and other news events, elsewhere on TV. Throws me off much more than ET+1 (Atlantic time), -1 (Central time), -2 (Mountain time), etc.

But at least Newfoundland is mostly off on an island, far from its nearest populated neighbors. Michigan would have half-hour time zone differences between Detroit and neighboring Windsor and Toledo, for example.
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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2019, 02:14:16 AM »

This is my suggested time zone map. 

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2019, 02:24:07 AM »

Putting St. Louis and Kansas City in separate time zones seems like a bad idea.
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Bruce

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2019, 02:56:45 AM »

So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022).

ce929wax

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2019, 03:22:40 AM »

My vote is for DST all year round.  I suffer from Season Affective Disorder really bad and the sun sets at 5 p.m. here are the worst as I hit a wall around that time unless I sleep until mid afternoon.  I'm a late night person (sometimes going to bed at 5 or 6 a.m, hence is why I would sleep until mid afternoon) so I'm usually asleep at sunrise, except for the summer when there were a couple of nights that it was getting light out as I was getting into bed.

Honestly, on dark, gray, gloomy days (we have a lot of them in Michigan, all year long), I would just rather it be dark out.  Maybe, I should consider moving to Alaska  :hmmm:
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oscar

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #48 on: November 01, 2019, 05:53:32 AM »

My vote is for DST all year round.  I suffer from Season Affective Disorder really bad and the sun sets at 5 p.m. here are the worst as I hit a wall around that time unless I sleep until mid afternoon.  I'm a late night person (sometimes going to bed at 5 or 6 a.m, hence is why I would sleep until mid afternoon) so I'm usually asleep at sunrise, except for the summer when there were a couple of nights that it was getting light out as I was getting into bed.

Honestly, on dark, gray, gloomy days (we have a lot of them in Michigan, all year long), I would just rather it be dark out.  Maybe, I should consider moving to Alaska  :hmmm:

Bad idea. Very little darkness in the summer, lots of it in the winter. There is a reason for the state's high alcoholism rate.

Try instead Hawaii. Most daylight is about 13 hours in the summer, least is about 11 hours in the winter. And no DST. But look for urban places with few roosters to wake you up when you'd rather not.
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Scott5114

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Re: DST (Fall 2019)
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2019, 06:19:43 AM »

So...does anyone have anything new to say this time around, or are we just going to get another endless stream of "kids have to wait in the bus in the dark", "it's hard for me to wake up in the morning when it's dark", "I like doing things in the evening", "Time zones are kind of messed up anyway", "changing clocks is a bother", or what?

For the first problem: we could always push back start times for school. It's better for the mental and physical wellbeing of kids anyway, which is why California now mandates it (beginning in 2022).

Someone already said that in the last thread, too.
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