Cheap License Plates In Michigan

[roadgeek]

I have to say that Michigan license plates suck. I don't know how they're made elsewhere but here they peel real bad and I have seen some that aren't even legible anymore because they peel. Does anywhere use a plastic plate that would be more durable?

[Max Rockatansky]

Aren't some states like Iowa moving actual vinyl/plastic license plates?  I had an employee awhile back that was transferring to Iowa show up to work with a vinyl license plate.  It was pretty much the same consistency as a temporary tag in most state but had an official looking plate graphic on it. 

[renegade]

I have to say that Michigan license plates suck. I don't know how they're made elsewhere but here they peel real bad and I have seen some that aren't even legible anymore because they peel. Does anywhere use a plastic plate that would be more durable?

Not only are they cheaply made, they're ugly, too.  It's long past due for a refresh.  The wave makes me seasick and fuck the website already.  They also should say MICHIGAN, not some sucky tourism advertising logo.

[Andrew T.]

I have to say that Michigan license plates suck. I don't know how they're made elsewhere but here they peel real bad and I have seen some that aren't even legible anymore because they peel. Does anywhere use a plastic plate that would be more durable?

I know exactly what you're talking about. This isn't specifically a Michigan problem, though. It's a 3M problem, and you can see it in every state and every province that relies upon 3M as a reflective sheeting supplier.  Here's some of what I've seen in Ontario:



Sometimes the aluminum corrodes around the boltholes or embossing, causing the sheeting to discolour. Sometimes the face of the entire plate will become translucent and striated, losing reflectivity in the process. Still other times, plates look fine for a few years...then the sheeting abruptly turns grey, delaminates from the aluminum, flaps around on the plate like a wet rag, and peels off in large shreds!

Regardless of which way they fail, nigh all of the plates I've seen that do fail are from 2007 or later.  I suspect that 3M made a chemical change to its reflective sheeting or adhesive that year causing the material to destabilize with sustained heat, humidity, or temperature variation...even if they've been stored indoors in a box the entire time.  (I speak from personal experience there.)

3M isn't the only supplier of reflective sheeting in existence.  Avery Dennison is another, and their product (used in Maryland, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) seems to be more durable.

[DaBigE]

3M isn't the only supplier of reflective sheeting in existence.  Avery Dennison is another, and their product (used in Maryland, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin) seems to be more durable.

Not sure who the supplier is for Wisconsin, but there are plenty that are peeling worse than a banana.

[Andrew T.]

Not sure who the supplier is for Wisconsin, but there are plenty that are peeling worse than a banana.

I used to live in Wisconsin...they alternated between 3M and Avery as suppliers, and I'm such a fanatic that I tracked the spread.  AAA through LK were Avery, LL through ZC were 3M, and ZD through ZZZ and beyond were Avery.  The early 2000s Avery plates sometimes faded and blistered around the numbers; but if you see any that are turning grey or peeling in huge shreds, I guarantee that it's a 3M plate from the L through Z series.

[jakeroot]

I had no idea that some states/provinces had plates that peeled so badly. I've seen a few really fucked up OR plates, most of which were quite old anyways, but I cannot recall seeing a faded WA or BC plate. I can see why some people are so pro-automatic replacement (something I'm not necessarily in favour of, but my experience clearly varies).

Regardless of which way they fail, nigh all of the plates I've seen that do fail are from 2007 or later.  I suspect that 3M made a chemical change to its reflective sheeting or adhesive that year causing the material to...

So the peeling has been re-occurring for every year of the ONT plate since 2007? Or it was just 2007? I can see making a chemical change error that isn't rectified for several months, but something that hasn't been rectified for 10+ years is...alarming.

[Andrew T.]

So the peeling has been re-occurring for every year of the ONT plate since 2007? Or it was just 2007? I can see making a chemical change error that isn't rectified for several months, but something that hasn't been rectified for 10+ years is...alarming.

As far as I know, the problem was never rectified.

In my experience, 3M plates on the road usually start to fail catastrophically around their seventh year.  The plates of 2007 were seven years old in 2014; ergo, 2014 was the year I first noticed a disproportionate rash of peeling plates in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ontario.  By now, the plates of 2008 through 2012 are looking just as foul.

Rather than improve the quality of its materials to last longer than seven years, 3M's preferred solution to the problem is to lobby state governments to mandate that plates be replaced every seven years.  Washington State used to have such a rule, and it was initiated under...suspect circumstances:

At one point, a representative from 3M – a multinational conglomerate involved in producing almost every license plate on U.S. roads – changed the topic. He warned that the 3M coating that made license plates brighter at night wore out over time. The problem with older plates, said David Growe, is that "reflectivity diminishes so much that it basically becomes indiscernible to a driver in lights."

The company aggressively lobbied the committee and lawmakers, successfully promoting a bill that required owners to replace license plates every seven years, former state Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen said in a recent interview. She believed 3M's chief concern was profits.
[...]
Lawmakers who approved the Washington replacement rule didn't demand a specific replacement schedule, instead giving the Department of Licensing power to determine the frequency "in accordance with empirical studies documenting the longevity of the reflective materials."

A few years later, when a Licensing staffer was finalizing the written rules for the replacement schedule, he emailed his colleagues to ask for a copy of the state's empirical study.

"So that you know, there was NO study,"  a colleague responded. The state had simply accepted the claims of 3M and looked at other states that were replacing plates. Department leaders decided not to do their own study and "picked seven years"  as a replacement rule, the staffer wrote.

The sad thing about Michigan was that they used to have the problem solved.  Until 2007, the state issued fully-embossed plates with painted backgrounds and glass-bead reflectorization on the numbers: They were immune to peeling-sheeting problems, they looked distinctive, and I believe they were cheaper to make, too.

[mgk920]

I suppose that one thing that you can do if the plates on your vehicle are those wretchedly bad 3M ones is to get out a black Sharpie and use it to redraw the letters and numbers on it.



Yes, I miss those simple older embossed paint/glass bead plates that WisDOT issued when I was young, too.

The Avery plates that are used in Wisconsin are wearing much better, with what appears to me to be just normal amounts of weathering and sun fading wear.

Mike

[Rothman]

NY's seem prone to peeling.

That said, my parents' green on white MA plate lasted forever.

[formulanone]

Florida used to require new plates every 5 years, on claims of fading; that seemed to be very rare in the past 20 years, from what I'd noticed. Someone who fanatically washed their license plate or parked alongside an ocean might have problems. But unlike northern climates, I think it could last for 10-15 years without any legibility problems. And I bet most places below the snow belt would be fine, too.

[vdeane]

Regardless of which way they fail, nigh all of the plates I've seen that do fail are from 2007 or later.  I suspect that 3M made a chemical change to its reflective sheeting or adhesive that year causing the material to destabilize with sustained heat, humidity, or temperature variation...even if they've been stored indoors in a box the entire time.  (I speak from personal experience there.)

That would explain why my rear plate went bad after 5 years while my front plate is still fine.  The rear one is the one that takes direct sunlight both at home and work.

So the peeling has been re-occurring for every year of the ONT plate since 2007? Or it was just 2007? I can see making a chemical change error that isn't rectified for several months, but something that hasn't been rectified for 10+ years is...alarming.

As far as I know, the problem was never rectified.

In my experience, 3M plates on the road usually start to fail catastrophically around their seventh year.  The plates of 2007 were seven years old in 2014; ergo, 2014 was the year I first noticed a disproportionate rash of peeling plates in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ontario.  By now, the plates of 2008 through 2012 are looking just as foul.

Rather than improve the quality of its materials to last longer than seven years, 3M's preferred solution to the problem is to lobby state governments to mandate that plates be replaced every seven years.  Washington State used to have such a rule, and it was initiated under...suspect circumstances:

At one point, a representative from 3M – a multinational conglomerate involved in producing almost every license plate on U.S. roads – changed the topic. He warned that the 3M coating that made license plates brighter at night wore out over time. The problem with older plates, said David Growe, is that "reflectivity diminishes so much that it basically becomes indiscernible to a driver in lights."

The company aggressively lobbied the committee and lawmakers, successfully promoting a bill that required owners to replace license plates every seven years, former state Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen said in a recent interview. She believed 3M's chief concern was profits.
[...]
Lawmakers who approved the Washington replacement rule didn't demand a specific replacement schedule, instead giving the Department of Licensing power to determine the frequency "in accordance with empirical studies documenting the longevity of the reflective materials."

A few years later, when a Licensing staffer was finalizing the written rules for the replacement schedule, he emailed his colleagues to ask for a copy of the state's empirical study.

"So that you know, there was NO study,"  a colleague responded. The state had simply accepted the claims of 3M and looked at other states that were replacing plates. Department leaders decided not to do their own study and "picked seven years"  as a replacement rule, the staffer wrote.

The sad thing about Michigan was that they used to have the problem solved.  Until 2007, the state issued fully-embossed plates with painted backgrounds and glass-bead reflectorization on the numbers: They were immune to peeling-sheeting problems, they looked distinctive, and I believe they were cheaper to make, too.

Sleazy.  Heck, they probably changed the formula specifically to cause the problem.  Many managers in large organizations have a "who is the big kahuna who has already solved this problem" mentality to product selection, so all a company has to do is become big and well-known for something and then they can charge as much as they like for as shoddy a product they like and still get volume contracts from large organizations that don't bother to do even the slightest amount of research into alternatives.

[kphoger]

It's likely that I have some wrong information here but, for the states mentioned so far, see below.  3M is definitely the culprit when it comes to peeling plates.

Michigan:  3M, but made by prison inmates
Ontario:  Avery 1999—2004 / 3M from 2004 (all of the pictured license plates in Reply #4)
Wisconsin:  Avery 2001—2007 / 3M 2006—2016 / Avery from 2016
Washington:  Avery, except for a brief experiment with 3M sometime around 2003
British Columbia:  Astrographics 1991—2003 / Waldale from 2003
New York:  3M, but made by prsion inmates / Switched to Avery this year
Massachusetts greenies:  I don't know
Florida:  Not sure of the sheeting supplier, made by prison inmates

[jakeroot]

It's likely that I have some wrong information here but, for the states mentioned so far, see below.  3M is definitely the culprit when it comes to peeling plates.

Michigan:  3M, but made by prison inmates
Ontario:  Avery 1999—2004 / 3M from 2004 (all of the pictured license plates in Reply #4)
Wisconsin:  Avery 2001—2007 / 3M 2006—2016 / Avery from 2016
Washington:  Avery, except for a brief experiment with 3M sometime around 2003
British Columbia:  Astrographics 1991—2003 / Waldale from 2003
New York:  3M, but made by prsion inmates / Switched to Avery this year
Massachusetts greenies:  I don't know
Florida:  Not sure of the sheeting supplier, made by prison inmates

Thank you for the information. What was your source?

[formulanone]

Florida:  Not sure of the sheeting supplier, made by prison inmates

Thank you for the information. What was your source?

I know the Florida makes them from a single source (prison) -> https://thefloridachannel.org/videos/behind-the-drive-florida-license-plates/

[Big John]

Wisconsin gets it plates from vendors, but the embossing and the black ink onto the embossed plate are done by prison labor

[DaBigE]

Wisconsin gets it plates from vendors, but the embossing and the black ink onto the embossed plate are done by prison labor

And depending on the specialty plate, additional labor by the owner. For instance, the Salutes Veterans plate requires the owner to place the logo and 'Salutes Veterans' stickers themself.

[Michael]

In 2014, NY started offering free replacements for peeling plates.  The problem was mostly on plates in the E series.  I've seen some plates that had no sheeting left and were just the bare metal.  As mentioned above, NY used 3M but announced in August they're switching to Avery for their plates.

[Brian556]

3M also claims signs made with their EG sheeting only have a 7-year life. However, they seem to last 10 or sometimes more, depending on proximity to equator and direction sign is facing. Why would plates made with their sheeting deteriorate faster than signs made if the same material? EG signs never peel

Flat Texas plates have a problem where they get moldy and gray. Sometimes it is not consistent across the whole plate. I've seen a few where the mold is only on one side (ie: right but not felt) . The mold is embedded in the sheeting and will not come off

[Flint1979]

I haven't noticed this problem with my license plate. I think the ones that had the world's motor capital on it from 1996 were the worst. The old blue and white ones from before that were fine but they rusted a lot.

[kphoger]

Thank you for the information. What was your source?

www.15q.net plus some quick & dirty googling.

[DaBigE]

3M also claims signs made with their EG sheeting only have a 7-year life. However, they seem to last 10 or sometimes more, depending on proximity to equator and direction sign is facing. Why would plates made with their sheeting deteriorate faster than signs made if the same material? EG signs never peel

I was thinking the same thing. Is the grade of aluminum used for license plates that much different than those used for road signs? The only difference I am aware of is the thickness. The only sign faces I've ever seen with peeling issues were ones that were adhered to wood substrates, and that was attributed to one of the chemicals used in treating the wood.

[NJRoadfan]

NJ started off using 3M sheeting in 1992 when they went to reflective plates. They switched to Avery in 2001 with disastrous results and went back to 3M in 2003. Many plates from the Avery era looked like those Ontario plates in short order. In 2014, NJ switched to 3M's digital flat plates which seem to be holding up fine other then getting a noticeable dirty film on them. Even my circa 2009 issue embossed 3M plates seems to be doing well as they still look like new! I occasionally see early 90's issue plates on the road as well.

Keep in mind that 3M does the majority of license plate sheeting business in the USA, so you'll see them EVERYWHERE.