Coronavirus pandemic

[Tonytone]

One thing I hope this event brings is...

1.More Respect for Healthcare & stocking piling supplies for our country, Medical & etc.

2.Making china respect healthcode & environmental laws.

3.Common sense. COMMON SENSE.

4.More funding for WHO/CDC & any other health program.

5.It would be good to note that people still Die from STD's other viruses & life everyday.


iPhone

More than likely people on a general won't even level won't even remember much if anything, that's kind of human nature to do.  It happens that way with natural disasters or really much of anything notable in the news.

The only time I can see this country did vast changes was after 9/11


iPhone

[Tonytone]

One thing I hope this event brings is...

1.More Respect for Healthcare & stocking piling supplies for our country, Medical & etc.

2.Making china respect healthcode & environmental laws.

3.Common sense. COMMON SENSE.

4.More funding for WHO/CDC & any other health program.

5.It would be good to note that people still Die from STD's other viruses & life everyday.


iPhone

1. CDC failed MISERABLY. Respect should be earned, not begged for. Healthcare system needs some people fired. And I don't mean HR style firing, I mean old style one with a good firing squad.
2. China showed how to deal with infection. First world countries showed how to fail it.  See 1.
3. No way. We have democracy instead.
4. More efficiency in spending funds, you mean?
5. Life is an STD disease, inevitably leading to a fatal outcome.

1. They did fail miserably, thats why we need to put people in there with respect & knowledge to prevent & do more. I agree with the firing squad 100%

2. Yes China has shown us all what to do. Lock people in their homes & burn the bodies.....

3. Oh yes I forgot the real people that run the country. The trailer trash mentality

4. Yes thats true. I forgot those programs are ACTUALLY funded.

5. I never thought of that before [emoji1787][emoji1787]


iPhone

[kalvado]

One thing I hope this event brings is...

1.More Respect for Healthcare & stocking piling supplies for our country, Medical & etc.

2.Making china respect healthcode & environmental laws.

3.Common sense. COMMON SENSE.

4.More funding for WHO/CDC & any other health program.

5.It would be good to note that people still Die from STD's other viruses & life everyday.


iPhone

1. CDC failed MISERABLY. Respect should be earned, not begged for. Healthcare system needs some people fired. And I don't mean HR style firing, I mean old style one with a good firing squad.
2. China showed how to deal with infection. First world countries showed how to fail it.  See 1.
3. No way. We have democracy instead.
4. More efficiency in spending funds, you mean?
5. Life is an STD disease, inevitably leading to a fatal outcome.

1. They did fail miserably, thats why we need to put people in there with respect & knowledge to prevent & do more. I agree with the firing squad 100%

2. Yes China has shown us all what to do. Lock people in their homes & burn the bodies.....

3. Oh yes I forgot the real people that run the country. The trailer trash mentality

4. Yes thats true. I forgot those programs are ACTUALLY funded.

5. I never thought of that before [emoji1787][emoji1787]


iPhone

1. Professionals don't come out of thin air. ANy idea who would be  "put" in place?
2. There is very little else you can do. If you look around, people are unhappy with minimal steps - like limiting travel or meetings. Look no further than this thread.
3. Yes, real people who are not prepared to act. Democratic procedures defeating common sense. Less taxes, more spending..
4. How much you are willing to shell out for that in YOUR 1040? 

[Tonytone]

One thing I hope this event brings is...

1.More Respect for Healthcare & stocking piling supplies for our country, Medical & etc.

2.Making china respect healthcode & environmental laws.

3.Common sense. COMMON SENSE.

4.More funding for WHO/CDC & any other health program.

5.It would be good to note that people still Die from STD's other viruses & life everyday.


iPhone

1. CDC failed MISERABLY. Respect should be earned, not begged for. Healthcare system needs some people fired. And I don't mean HR style firing, I mean old style one with a good firing squad.
2. China showed how to deal with infection. First world countries showed how to fail it.  See 1.
3. No way. We have democracy instead.
4. More efficiency in spending funds, you mean?
5. Life is an STD disease, inevitably leading to a fatal outcome.

1. They did fail miserably, thats why we need to put people in there with respect & knowledge to prevent & do more. I agree with the firing squad 100%

2. Yes China has shown us all what to do. Lock people in their homes & burn the bodies.....

3. Oh yes I forgot the real people that run the country. The trailer trash mentality

4. Yes thats true. I forgot those programs are ACTUALLY funded.

5. I never thought of that before [emoji1787][emoji1787]


iPhone

1. Professionals don't come out of thin air. ANy idea who would be  "put" in place?
2. There is very little else you can do. If you look around, people are unhappy with minimal steps - like limiting travel or meetings. Look no further than this thread.
3. Yes, real people who are not prepared to act. Democratic procedures defeating common sense. Less taxes, more spending..
4. How much you are willing to shell out for that in YOUR 1040?

Oh the thing is I agree with you. Those statements were more toward the fact that our country has lost common sense & doing the right thing over money.

Also im saying the CDC is actually funded. Like the only thing that the Gov seems to fund correctly.

With 7-8 Billion people on earth im sure we have more then enough qualified people to work & run the CDC


iPhone

[jeffandnicole]

2. China showed how to deal with infection. First world countries showed how to fail it.  See 1.

What did China do to deal with it?

Editting to add: There's a number of articles that detail what China did wrong, especially at the start of this virus.  And it would seem that if they showed how to deal with it, it wouldn't have become a world-wide issue.

[vdeane]

2. China showed how to deal with infection. First world countries showed how to fail it.  See 1.

No, they didn't.  In fact, they were a big fat epic fail.  When the virus first emerged, instead of working to contain it, they instead decided to cover it up, arresting any doctors who wouldn't help (one later died of the virus).  Had they done things properly, it would have never left Wuhan, much less spread to the rest of the world.

[Rothman]

I've seen a number of people post that certsin high level people ask if the flu shot would help against the virus. Those people laugh and basically can't believe how dumb they are for asking the question.

In the meantime, I'm thinking to myself: You know what else the flu shot hasn't prevented? The flu! Way too often do we hear how the flu shot isn't protecting against the strain that is going around, and the number of people that get the flu shot and get very sick or die is staggering.

Its almost openly said that annual flu shots are pushed in order to support vaccine manufacturing capability, not for health effects.
As a matter of fact, none of EU countries recommends blanket US style vaccinations for everyone.

This is nonsense.  It's to protect those who can't be vaccinated or are more susceptible to the flu.

Thing is, herd immunity - that is the effect you're talking about - is pretty real, and is a does work.
Problem is that not all vaccines (and all infections) are created equal. Flu vaccine, in particular, has a very low efficiency, well below 50% on average. This is CDC data, I am not making things up. Just for comparison, one dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella - and there are multiple doses. Herd effect requires efficiencies in 90s to work.
So there is no herd immunity for flu vaccine - and this argument doesn't hold water. If it was the primary reasons, vaccinations would be called off once efficiency falls below certain threshold. I do rememeber though CDC specifically calling for continuing vaccinations when vaccine was especially bad and efficiency fell below 20%. So.. Nope, that is not the reason for flu.

I'll take the recommendations of my medical providers over your armchair analysis.

[bing101]

https://wpta21.com/2020/03/06/health-officials-announce-first-case-of-novel-coronavirus-covid-19/
Update Indiana has announced a COVID-19 investigation.

[kalvado]

2. China showed how to deal with infection. First world countries showed how to fail it.  See 1.

What did China do to deal with it?

Editting to add: There's a number of articles that detail what China did wrong, especially at the start of this virus.  And it would seem that if they showed how to deal with it, it wouldn't have become a world-wide issue.

There are always mistakes when people need to act without full information. People want a full action on a first warning from others - but are reluctant to do anything themselves. CDC fiasco actually proves how that works.  CHina ended up suppressing spread within their footprint. Outside world had plenty of warning, lots of information - and still allowed disease to spread. You know, China has only that much authority over actions of authorities in California.

2. China showed how to deal with infection. First world countries showed how to fail it.  See 1.

No, they didn't.  In fact, they were a big fat epic fail.  When the virus first emerged, instead of working to contain it, they instead decided to cover it up, arresting any doctors who wouldn't help (one later died of the virus).  Had they done things properly, it would have never left Wuhan, much less spread to the rest of the world.

If you look at the timeline, Dr. Lee situation is... overstated. He was abused, sure, but that had little - if any - effect on the overall situation.
I would compare that directly with UCSD situation - where nCoV patient didn't get tested for a week because CDC refused to administer test, and no single whistle blower came forward. Had CDC done blanket tests as they should, US would be in single digits case count today.
On the same token, would YOU share NYSDOT confidential information if you think things are not done right?

[jakeroot]

Some of you know that I go to the University of Washington (my tagline on the left might give it away). Because an employee just tested positive this morning or last night, I am now out of school until after Spring Break:

UW cancels in-person classes amid coronavirus outbreak (from King 5 Seattle)

https://www.washington.edu/coronavirus

Not sure what about the situation will change between now and a couple weeks from now, but with winter quarter finals just around the corner, this is definitely more than a little annoying.

[kalvado]

I'll take the recommendations of my medical providers over your armchair analysis.

Which is, certainly, a very reasonable approach.
However, to put things on professional vs professional level:
this is what EU countries recommend for flu vaccination (I am doing a screenshot as direct links don't work; start from here if you want to: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/seasonal-influenza/prevention-and-control/vaccination-schedule)
https://i.imgur.com/RR3jk0f.jpg
As you can see, EU policies is drastically different from US. Do you think European doctors are not professional, or you would say there is a room for discussion as they most likely have some clue and their opinion is different?

[kalvado]

Some of you know that I go to the University of Washington (my tagline on the left might give it away). Because an employee just tested positive this morning or last night, I am now out of school until after Spring Break:

UW cancels in-person classes amid coronavirus outbreak (from King 5 Seattle)

https://www.washington.edu/coronavirus

Not sure what about the situation will change between now and a couple weeks from now, but with winter quarter finals just around the corner, this is definitely more than a little annoying.

Distant learning -  including making all finals take-home ones - is definitely an option everyone has to look at. Less than ideal, but it is what it is.  As an advice, use the time for self-education; internet has a lot of educational resources these days. And in a few weeks, things would either settle - or we'll go to Wuhan style lockdown. One way or the other..

[Bruce]

One thing this outbreak should make clear: the entire healthcare system in this country is broken and needs to be entirely replaced. Single-payer is the best way to go, because there is no incentive today for someone with mild symptoms of what could be coronavirus to visit a hospital and pay $3,000 to get tested. They will continue to spread the virus around until it is too late.

The science-phobic response from our leaders has also been, as expected, a disaster. The CDC are dropping the ball and leaving states to pick up the response. Washington's State Department of Health has had to contradict almost everything that has been said by the presidential administration for over a month by issuing corrections and trying to steer people towards the correct advice.

[Rothman]

I'll take the recommendations of my medical providers over your armchair analysis.

Which is, certainly, a very reasonable approach.
However, to put things on professional vs professional level:
this is what EU countries recommend for flu vaccination (I am doing a screenshot as direct links don't work; start from here if you want to: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/seasonal-influenza/prevention-and-control/vaccination-schedule)
https://i.imgur.com/RR3jk0f.jpg
As you can see, EU policies is drastically different from US. Do you think European doctors are not professional, or you would say there is a room for discussion as they most likely have some clue and their opinion is different?

I think the EU is far away and EU experts operate within a different context than US experts.  Surprisingly, it sounds like the flu shot is more available and affordable in the US.  Makes me wonder if the same conditions existed in the EU if their policy would be different.

[J N Winkler]

One thing this outbreak should make clear: the entire healthcare system in this country is broken and needs to be entirely replaced. Single-payer is the best way to go, because there is no incentive today for someone with mild symptoms of what could be coronavirus to visit a hospital and pay $3,000 to get tested. They will continue to spread the virus around until it is too late.

"It's a shame to allow a crisis to go to waste."

[kalvado]

I'll take the recommendations of my medical providers over your armchair analysis.

Which is, certainly, a very reasonable approach.
However, to put things on professional vs professional level:
this is what EU countries recommend for flu vaccination (I am doing a screenshot as direct links don't work; start from here if you want to: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/seasonal-influenza/prevention-and-control/vaccination-schedule)
https://i.imgur.com/RR3jk0f.jpg
As you can see, EU policies is drastically different from US. Do you think European doctors are not professional, or you would say there is a room for discussion as they most likely have some clue and their opinion is different?

I think the EU is far away and EU experts operate within a different context than US experts.  Surprisingly, it sounds like the flu shot is more available and affordable in the US.  Makes me wonder if the same conditions existed in the EU if their policy would be different.

Coming back to coronavirus - I think it demonstrates that things are pretty connected worldwide.  I wouldn't call EU situation well different from US situation either population-wise or climate-wise.
As for costs... One of aspects of flu shots in US, it appears that it is quantity over quality. FLUAD - adjuvanted vaccine - is licensed only for those over 65 in US.  And although adjuvant is squalene-based, it is proprietary(??) one and efficiency is questioned. So in some sense, US is on the same page as EU - only those over 65 can get a real flu shot in US - and the question is how real it is anyway....

[kalvado]

One thing this outbreak should make clear: the entire healthcare system in this country is broken and needs to be entirely replaced. Single-payer is the best way to go, because there is no incentive today for someone with mild symptoms of what could be coronavirus to visit a hospital and pay $3,000 to get tested. They will continue to spread the virus around until it is too late.

"It's a shame to allow a crisis to go to waste."

Well, thing is - PCR tests are pricey. and this is an interesting conflict between coronavirus being a public health emergency and cost still billed to the patient, one way or the other. Not to mention the treatment - whoever makes remdesivir is not giving it out for free.
May very well contribute to the spread as holding people by force so they can get paid service is a legal non-starter.

[J N Winkler]

Well, thing is - PCR tests are pricey. and this is an interesting conflict between coronavirus being a public health emergency and cost still billed to the patient, one way or the other. Not to mention the treatment - whoever makes remdesivir is not giving it out for free.

May very well contribute to the spread as holding people by force so they can get paid service is a legal non-starter.

As someone who supports single-payer, I am honestly surprised we are (so far) containing coronavirus as well as we have been.  There have been glaring failures in countries that do have socialized medicine--Italy comes to mind--and I am under no illusions that socializing health care will end rationing.  But, yes, an up-front cost to seek treatment amounts to a perverse incentive that may well complicate containment.

[bing101]

https://www.wyff4.com/article/north-carolina-identifies-second-case-of-coronavirus-covid-19-health-officials-say/31261192




https://www.wgal.com/article/pennsylvania-coronavirus-update-governor-covid-19/31260024




https://kvoa.com/news/top-stories/2020/03/06/adhs-states-third-covid-19-case-in-pinal-county/




https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/chula-vista-parent-quarantined-after-possible-exposure-to-att-worker-with-covid-19/2279971/






Here is the roundup.

[US71]

As someone who supports single-payer, I am honestly surprised we are (so far) containing coronavirus as well as we have been.  There have been glaring failures in countries that do have socialized medicine--Italy comes to mind--and I am under no illusions that socializing health care will end rationing.  But, yes, an up-front cost to seek treatment amounts to a perverse incentive that may well complicate containment.

Maybe because not everyone believes malarkey coming from  our politicians and there are medical professionals ready to roll at the first sign of trouble? (just a thought)

[kalvado]

Well, thing is - PCR tests are pricey. and this is an interesting conflict between coronavirus being a public health emergency and cost still billed to the patient, one way or the other. Not to mention the treatment - whoever makes remdesivir is not giving it out for free.

May very well contribute to the spread as holding people by force so they can get paid service is a legal non-starter.

As someone who supports single-payer, I am honestly surprised we are (so far) containing coronavirus as well as we have been.  There have been glaring failures in countries that do have socialized medicine--Italy comes to mind--and I am under no illusions that socializing health care will end rationing.  But, yes, an up-front cost to seek treatment amounts to a perverse incentive that may well complicate containment.

I talked to my friend in France literally 15 minutes ago. He's in quarantine after travel (within EU), and developed some fever. After phone interview it was decided he doesn't deserve the test, quarantine extended by 7 days, tests are not cheap to spend them on almost healthy people...

[Bruce]

As someone who supports single-payer, I am honestly surprised we are (so far) containing coronavirus as well as we have been.  There have been glaring failures in countries that do have socialized medicine--Italy comes to mind--and I am under no illusions that socializing health care will end rationing.  But, yes, an up-front cost to seek treatment amounts to a perverse incentive that may well complicate containment.

Maybe because not everyone believes malarkey coming from  our politicians and there are medical professionals ready to roll at the first sign of trouble? (just a thought)

It's extremely fortunate that one of our local hospitals (which has been receiving some coronavirus patients) ended their strike a month ago. There are still shortages in available doctors here because of cuts from the privately-run hospital systems and the number of tests available from the federal government are a drop in the bucket compared to where we should be testing. Several local nonprofit groups have had to step in and do their own testing because the CDC has been weakened so much by the current administration. It's an embarrassment to the country.

We probably have hundreds of untested cases in the Seattle area and no capacity to find them through testing until it's too late, either after a large-scale infection or death of the patient.

[kalvado]

As someone who supports single-payer, I am honestly surprised we are (so far) containing coronavirus as well as we have been.  There have been glaring failures in countries that do have socialized medicine--Italy comes to mind--and I am under no illusions that socializing health care will end rationing.  But, yes, an up-front cost to seek treatment amounts to a perverse incentive that may well complicate containment.

Maybe because not everyone believes malarkey coming from  our politicians and there are medical professionals ready to roll at the first sign of trouble? (just a thought)

It's extremely fortunate that one of our local hospitals (which has been receiving some coronavirus patients) ended their strike a month ago. There are still shortages in available doctors here because of cuts from the privately-run hospital systems and the number of tests available from the federal government are a drop in the bucket compared to where we should be testing. Several local nonprofit groups have had to step in and do their own testing because the CDC has been weakened so much by the current administration. It's an embarrassment to the country.

We probably have hundreds of untested cases in the Seattle area and no capacity to find them through testing until it's too late, either after a large-scale infection or death of the patient.

One thing I don't understand here... CDC proudly announced shipping out enough material to text 100k people or so. And I don't believe non-profit can make more primers, this is just something too complicated.
I

[stormwatch7721]

I still don't get on how the coronavirus has more cases than SARS.

[Tonytone]

1 Dog has contracted The virus in hong kong.


iPhone