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Author Topic: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down  (Read 3947 times)

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2020, 05:19:42 PM »

I don't know if this would help or not, but what about banning left turns between VA 120 (inclusive) and the 15th St. interchange (exclusive)? They would become two-phase signals. If you were going northbound and wanted to go west, you would either turn before the restricted area at Glebe Rd. or you would turn right onto Crystal Dr. and go straight across at one of the other intersections (or turn left at 15th if it's close to your destination). If you were going southbound and wanted to go east, take the 15th St. interchange and go along Crystal Dr.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2020, 06:06:36 PM »

I don't know if this would help or not, but what about banning left turns between VA 120 (inclusive) and the 15th St. interchange (exclusive)?

Does "VA 120 (inclusive)" mean that left turns would be banned at the VA 120 intersection, or rather starting north of that intersection? The VA 120 intersection has a dual left-turn lane from US 1 NB to VA 120 WB, reflecting the traffic volume making that movement, that would be hard to accommodate some other way. But leaving the VA 120 intersection out of your plan might not prevent the rest of the plan from working.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2020, 06:14:41 PM »

I don't know if this would help or not, but what about banning left turns between VA 120 (inclusive) and the 15th St. interchange (exclusive)?

Does "VA 120 (inclusive)" mean that left turns would be banned at the VA 120 intersection, or rather starting north of that intersection? The VA 120 intersection has a dual left-turn lane from US 1 NB to VA 120 WB, reflecting the traffic volume making that movement, that would be hard to accommodate some other way. But leaving the VA 120 intersection out of your plan might not prevent the rest of the plan from working.

I meant that left turns would be banned there, seeing W/E Glebe Rd. south of the river as an alternate. I didn't realize it was a double left turn lane. Left turns should probably be allowed here and banned only north of here. (Allowing left turns here would also make the SB → EB movement easier.)
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2020, 08:54:46 PM »

You mean Reagan Airport. Dulles Airport is about 20 to 25 miles to the west. Route 233 is a short stub route connecting Route 1 to Reagan Airport.

There is about zero chance of more interchanges being added through there. There was a survey last month or the month before about multi-modal improvements in that area. Arlington authorities view Route 1—with some justification, I have to say—as a sort of like a wall splitting Crystal City in two.

Bear in mind that Amazon is to become a major tenant in that area, plus Arlington County is not particularly interested in highway-style construction anyway because they’re more into the so-called "smart growth" concept than they are in making it easier for people to pass through. They would love it if they could find a way to create housing for Amazon workers who would then walk or bike to work.

This is similar to your other recent thread in which you didn’t believe those of us who live around here when we said Arlington County would have zero political interest in turning US-50 through the county into a full controlled-access freeway. Arlington is more interested in (a) the new Metrorail stop under construction at Potomac Yard, (b) the plan to twin the Long Bridge, and (c) the proposal to build a new dedicated bike and pedestrian bridge between the Long Bridge and the Fenwick Bridge.

I think right now the two most notable road projects on the horizon in Arlington County are the realignment of Columbia Pike near the Air Force Memorial to allow for the expansion of Arlington Cemetery and the reconstruction of the I-395/Boundary Channel Drive interchange.

Philadelphia wants to turn a similar road, Roosevelt Boulevard, into a freeway.
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Re: Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2020, 09:05:28 PM »


Philadelphia wants to turn a similar road, Roosevelt Boulevard, into a freeway.

apples and oranges... Roosevelt Blvd is a completely different beast.
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Re: Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2020, 09:13:29 PM »


Philadelphia wants to turn a similar road, Roosevelt Boulevard, into a freeway.

apples and oranges... Roosevelt Blvd is a completely different beast.

How? They're both very wide arterials with frontage roads.
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Re: Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2020, 09:28:25 PM »

Who cares what Philadelphia is doing? How does that have any relevance at all to Arlington, Virginia, and how does it even remotely matter in terms of local politics?

You really don’t like people throwing cold water on your ideas, do you?
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Re: Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2020, 09:32:52 PM »

Who cares what Philadelphia is doing? How does that have any relevance at all to Arlington, Virginia, and how does it even remotely matter in terms of local politics?

You really don’t like people throwing cold water on your ideas, do you?

Philadelphia wants to build a freeway there to improve safety, traffic flow, and make the area more pleasant. I think the people of Arlington value the same things.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2020, 10:28:05 PM »

Who cares what Philadelphia is doing? How does that have any relevance at all to Arlington, Virginia, and how does it even remotely matter in terms of local politics?

You really don’t like people throwing cold water on your ideas, do you?

Philadelphia wants to build a freeway there to improve safety, traffic flow, and make the area more pleasant. I think the people of Arlington value the same things.

You’re making an invalid assumption that the people in Arlington think a freeway would in fact "make the area more pleasant."

I’m just really puzzled as to why, for someone who has a profile listing Boston as home, you seem so obsessed with trying to make us believe you know more about what Northern Virginia residents want than anyone else, such as people who live in Northern Virginia—other than your tag line about a dislike for public transit, that is.
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"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2020, 10:32:42 AM »

Who are you gonna trust - the kid from Boston suburbs, or three posters from the area?  :rolleyes:

Hoo- Arlington also has plans to break up some of the megablocks in Rosslyn, but that's contingent on parcel-by-parcel development. PS - did you see the Holiday Inn implosion? I visited the remnants yesterday...The hole in the ground really lays bare how much of an incline that part of Rosslyn is built on.

There's also a long-planned road diet for Army-Navy Drive near the Pentagon City mall.




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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2020, 10:40:46 AM »

Who are you gonna trust - the kid from Boston suburbs, or three posters from the area?  :rolleyes:

Hoo- Arlington also has plans to break up some of the megablocks in Rosslyn, but that's contingent on parcel-by-parcel development. PS - did you see the Holiday Inn implosion? I visited the remnants yesterday...The hole in the ground really lays bare how much of an incline that part of Rosslyn is built on.

There's also a long-planned road diet for Army-Navy Drive near the Pentagon City mall.

I saw the video of the implosion on Adam Tuss's twitter feed. We went to Arlington Cemetery that morning to place a wreath at my father's niche and, for obvious reasons, that was far more important to me than the hotel project.

I've never really liked Rosslyn or the part of Crystal City east of Route 1. They just don't appeal to me at all. I'm not sure breaking up the megablocks would change my opinion, either, but it's fair to recognize that I grew up outside the Beltway in Fairfax County and that surely influences my view. I was aware of the incline on which Rosslyn is built, though, because back in the 1980s when I was a Boy Scout pursuing the Cycling merit badge we regularly passed through Rosslyn as part of trips along the Custis Trail.

There was a road diet implemented on a portion of Kingstowne Village Parkway (between Beulah Street and Hayfield Road) not too far from where I live. On that road, it's been perfectly fine, but the people who live at that end don't like it because they say it makes it too hard "to pass slowpokes." Since it's a residential area with multiple uncontrolled crosswalks and the speed limit is 35, I tend to keep it to 35 on there. I have been passed over the double yellow line more than once, and one angry guy in a pickup who wanted me to go faster followed me to Wegmans and continued to follow me around the parking lot until I lost him by going around the back of the store and flooring it (I was not about to park until I lost him).
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—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2020, 10:45:17 AM »

I split the posts about Roosevelt Blvd out intending those to be moved to that thread. It is locked so that no one posts in it. -Mark
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2020, 10:46:59 AM »

Who are you gonna trust - the kid from Boston suburbs, or three posters from the area?  :rolleyes:

I'm also a kid (or at least a college student) from the Boston suburbs, and oscar, who lives in the area, said my idea might work with a small modification.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2020, 11:52:45 AM »

I have very little patience for the people who feel entitled to speed on residential roads, no matter how wide. I was taught the "kid chasing a ball" test while learning to drive; if you can't stop in time for that contingency (based on sight lines, and spacing and everything else), it's too fast.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2020, 12:15:59 PM »

I have very little patience for the people who feel entitled to speed on residential roads, no matter how wide. I was taught the "kid chasing a ball" test while learning to drive; if you can't stop in time for that contingency (based on sight lines, and spacing and everything else), it's too fast.

Agreed, and I will often set my cruise control at approximately the speed limit (a tick over, if the limit is 25, since my cruise control seems to work only above that speed), both to keep my own speed down and to prevent myself from unconsciously speeding up if someone tailgates me. It's not just kids, either. There are a good number of deer in the woods in our neighborhood—I've seen as many as six at one time along the side of the road—and I don't particularly care for the idea of hitting one of them (or a squirrel, for that matter).
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2020, 01:18:45 PM »

In the discussion about pedestrian overpasses and tunnels, they are never all that popular and seemingly reinforce an idea that the roadway below needs to be divorced of any non-car interaction. If the goal is to reinforce the idea that US 1 does not need to be a freeway through Crystal City, a pedestrian overpass/underpass is not needed. As it is, the freeway is short, has a 35 MPH speed limit, and doesn't serve much of a larger purpose if it isn't extended to the south - which is highly unlikely considering the dense transit-oriented development being built.
 
https://www.itdp.org/2019/10/01/pedestrian-bridges-make-cities-less-walkable-why-do-cities-keep-building-them/
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2020, 01:32:02 PM »

^^^^

The pedestrian bridge outside Home Depot at Seven Corners didn’t get used until VDOT put up chain link fences to prevent people from trying to attempt the suicidal run across Route 50.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2020, 01:40:53 PM »

In the discussion about pedestrian overpasses and tunnels, they are never all that popular and seemingly reinforce an idea that the roadway below needs to be divorced of any non-car interaction. If the goal is to reinforce the idea that US 1 does not need to be a freeway through Crystal City, a pedestrian overpass/underpass is not needed. As it is, the freeway is short, has a 35 MPH speed limit, and doesn't serve much of a larger purpose if it isn't extended to the south - which is highly unlikely considering the dense transit-oriented development being built.
 
https://www.itdp.org/2019/10/01/pedestrian-bridges-make-cities-less-walkable-why-do-cities-keep-building-them/
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/

This is a zero sum mentality. It's possible to make roads better for all users, motorized or not, simultaneously. As it happens, the current overpasses do that.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2020, 02:04:12 PM »

Not everyone can walk up stairs easily, making it a shallow ramp adds a lot of distance, and if it's an elevator (I know of no examples), you're going to have to wait until the previous person is done before you can go.
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2020, 02:13:45 PM »

I'm more interested in the fact that underpasses and overpasses generally either have staircases or fairly steep ramps.  This is obviously not ideal for people in wheelchairs.

Not everyone can walk up stairs easily, making it a shallow ramp adds a lot of distance, and if it's an elevator (I know of no examples), you're going to have to wait until the previous person is done before you can go.

I've used spiral ramps like this or this a few times by bicycle, and it's challenging enough.  I certainly wouldn't want to have to do that as a pedestrian with mobility problems.  And underpasses like this or overpasses like this are worthless to anybody in a wheelchair.

(In the case of that last one, I've seen plenty of able-bodied students jaywalk across Broadway, rather than take the extra time and energy to use the overpass.)
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2020, 02:34:51 PM »

In the discussion about pedestrian overpasses and tunnels, they are never all that popular and seemingly reinforce an idea that the roadway below needs to be divorced of any non-car interaction. If the goal is to reinforce the idea that US 1 does not need to be a freeway through Crystal City, a pedestrian overpass/underpass is not needed. As it is, the freeway is short, has a 35 MPH speed limit, and doesn't serve much of a larger purpose if it isn't extended to the south - which is highly unlikely considering the dense transit-oriented development being built.
 
https://www.itdp.org/2019/10/01/pedestrian-bridges-make-cities-less-walkable-why-do-cities-keep-building-them/
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/

This is a zero sum mentality. It's possible to make roads better for all users, motorized or not, simultaneously. As it happens, the current overpasses do that.

I still don't understand why you automatically assume that municipalities want to make roads better for "all users."
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2020, 02:35:10 PM »

Another resident here. I live in Crystal City part-time and my main metro station is the Crystal City station at 18th & Bell (which I access using the BRT from the southern end of Crystal City).

My thoughts:

* the freeway will never get extended south, so it serves no real purpose for traffic flow other than adding more room between the 395 and the first traffic light;
* the underpasses are dark and not enjoyable to use. I still have to cross four lanes of ramp traffic to access the underpass at 23rd anyways;
* the underpass at 18th is decent but still dark; both underpasses would be better if there was a cut-out in the middle of the overpass to allow natural light in (though I'd rather both were removed anyways);
* the overpass at 12th St likely needs to remain, but it's actually pretty decent and could be made quite good with road modifications and lighting improvements.
* exiting the BRT at Bell to get on the metro, it feels very uninviting since Route 1 creates a wall just west of the bus station. Not inviting at all, especially already being underneath the large building;
* bringing down Route 1 to grade level would require some tricky signalization, but I would invite anything that adds some noise and activity to Crystal City since the east side of Route 1 is...well it's pretty dead, honestly;
* DCA traffic seems to largely originate from the Parkway...I think we could safely eliminate the trumpet interchange at Route 1 and create a regular signal there (also eliminate the slip ramp to Crystal Dr).
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2020, 02:36:48 PM »

In the discussion about pedestrian overpasses and tunnels, they are never all that popular and seemingly reinforce an idea that the roadway below needs to be divorced of any non-car interaction. If the goal is to reinforce the idea that US 1 does not need to be a freeway through Crystal City, a pedestrian overpass/underpass is not needed. As it is, the freeway is short, has a 35 MPH speed limit, and doesn't serve much of a larger purpose if it isn't extended to the south - which is highly unlikely considering the dense transit-oriented development being built.
 
https://www.itdp.org/2019/10/01/pedestrian-bridges-make-cities-less-walkable-why-do-cities-keep-building-them/
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/

This is a zero sum mentality. It's possible to make roads better for all users, motorized or not, simultaneously. As it happens, the current overpasses do that.

I still don't understand why you automatically assume that municipalities want to make roads better for "all users."

That's the whole idea behind "complete streets"
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2020, 02:38:16 PM »

Another resident here. I live in Crystal City part-time and my main metro station is the Crystal City station at 18th & Bell (which I access using the BRT from the southern end of Crystal City).

My thoughts:

* the freeway will never get extended south, so it serves no real purpose for traffic flow other than adding more room between the 395 and the first traffic light;
* the underpasses are dark and not enjoyable to use. I still have to cross four lanes of ramp traffic to access the underpass at 23rd anyways;
* the underpass at 18th is decent but still dark; both underpasses would be better if there was a cut-out in the middle of the overpass to allow natural light in (though I'd rather both were removed anyways);
* the overpass at 12th St likely needs to remain, but it's actually pretty decent and could be made quite good with road modifications and lighting improvements.
* exiting the BRT at Bell to get on the metro, it feels very uninviting since Route 1 creates a wall just west of the bus station. Not inviting at all, especially already being underneath the large building;
* bringing down Route 1 to grade level would require some tricky signalization, but I would invite anything that adds some noise and activity to Crystal City since the east side of Route 1 is...well it's pretty dead, honestly;
* DCA traffic seems to largely originate from the Parkway...I think we could safely eliminate the trumpet interchange at Route 1 and create a regular signal there (also eliminate the slip ramp to Crystal Dr).

The group Livability 22202 suggested livening things up by building commercial space into the overpass
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Re: Locals don't want the US 1 overpasses near Crystal City torn down
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2020, 02:41:47 PM »


I still don't understand why you automatically assume that municipalities want to make roads better for "all users."

That's the whole idea behind "complete streets"

I'm pretty sure he knows that.  What he's questioning is your assumption that municipalities actually want that.
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Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

 


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