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Author Topic: Virginia  (Read 1537937 times)

Beltway

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2400 on: June 17, 2017, 03:30:57 PM »

Virginia did get some relatively short but vital urban Interstate mileage additions to the original 1956 and 1968 Interstate system allocations.

I-664 between I-64/I-264 at Bowers Hill, and 2 miles north of south shore of Hampton Roads -- 11 miles.

I-264 Downtown Tunnel / Berkley Bridge expansion, parallel tunnel and parallel bridge, interchange upgrades -- 2.2 miles.

I-295 extension from Varina in Henrico County to I-95 south of Petersburg -- 16 miles.

Those were new construction segments that were designated as Interstate routes upon completion.

The aforementioned 12 miles of VA-44 already existed when it was designated as an Interstate route.

The originally designated I-264 from I-64 at Bowers Hill to I-64/I-264/VA-44 near Military Circle did not include the Downtown Tunnel / Berkley Bridge complex (completed 1952, funded with toll revenue bonds).  Seems odd that that segment was omitted, but it is what it is.  VDOT got approval from FHWA to add it in 1978, and to expand it.

Part of my highway advocacy efforts will be to submit detailed justifications to VDOT recommending that they pursue designation as Interstate routes on the following.  Good candidates every one.

VA-895 ==> I-895
VA-195 ==> I-195
VA-288 ==> I-695
VA-164 ==> I-164
MLK Fwy segment ==> I-764
VA-267 ==> I-595
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2401 on: June 17, 2017, 03:45:00 PM »




VA-895 ==> I-895
VA-195 ==> I-195
VA-288 ==> I-695
VA-164 ==> I-164
MLK Fwy segment ==> I-764
VA-267 ==> I-595

Curiosity questions...

Would Virginia have to pay back federal $ to convert VA 195 as they would for VA 895?

Does the City of Richmond still object to VA 288 being placed into the interstate system?  In 1977 the city petitioned CTB to abandon the interstate idea and even suggested studying an I-195 extension to I-85 west of Petersburg...!

Why I-764 instead of continuing I-164 on over the MLK Expwy?

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2402 on: June 17, 2017, 03:51:27 PM »

Echoing Mike's I-764 question.  Meanwhile, I'd think an I-x66 would be more appropriate for VA 267.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2403 on: June 17, 2017, 04:46:46 PM »

Does the City of Richmond still object to VA 288 being placed into the interstate system?  In 1977 the city petitioned CTB to abandon the interstate idea and even suggested studying an I-195 extension to I-85 west of Petersburg...!

Why did Richmond object to VA-288 becoming an interstate? It doesn't have tolls and is very close to meeting interstate standards, if it doesn't already. What do they have to lose if it became I-695? 

Of all the proposed interstates Beltway mentioned, VA-288/I-695 seems to be the most logical addition to the Interstate system, since it acts as a shortcut to I-95 from I-64 and vice versa, with the added bonus of bypassing Richmond.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2404 on: June 17, 2017, 05:12:32 PM »

I know they are widening I-64 from the Denbigh area of Newport News up to I-295 just outside of Richmond. Now, Are there any plans to have I-64 widened between I-464 in Chesapeake to the Bowers Hill-Suffolk-Norfolk split at I-264 (EXITS 299A-B) to 3 lanes each?
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2405 on: June 17, 2017, 05:22:35 PM »

I know they are widening I-64 from the Denbigh area of Newport News up to I-295 just outside of Richmond. Now, Are there any plans to have I-64 widened between I-464 in Chesapeake to the Bowers Hill-Suffolk-Norfolk split at I-264 (EXITS 299A-B) to 3 lanes each?
Yes, though it looks like any additional capacity will be in the form of managed lanes (HOV, HOT, etc): http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/i-64_southside_widening_and_high_rise_bridge_phase_1_project.asp
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2406 on: June 17, 2017, 05:50:26 PM »

Does the City of Richmond still object to VA 288 being placed into the interstate system?  In 1977 the city petitioned CTB to abandon the interstate idea and even suggested studying an I-195 extension to I-85 west of Petersburg...!

Why did Richmond object to VA-288 becoming an interstate? It doesn't have tolls and is very close to meeting interstate standards, if it doesn't already. What do they have to lose if it became I-695? 

Of all the proposed interstates Beltway mentioned, VA-288/I-695 seems to be the most logical addition to the Interstate system, since it acts as a shortcut to I-95 from I-64 and vice versa, with the added bonus of bypassing Richmond.

See pp. 33-41 at http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/meetings/minutes_pdf/CTB-04-1977-01.pdf

Essentially Richmond thought the beltway of Richmond would do nothing to alleviate Richmond's traffic problems (among other arguments).  They did not mention the VA 288 portion specifically but were requesting that construction stop on what was the original part of I-295 opened, as a bypass of I-64...

The document mentions traffic projections but these were not included in the CTB documentation.  Would be interesting to see how the projections (deemed exaggerated by Richmond) compare to what ultimately happened...
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2407 on: June 17, 2017, 06:07:04 PM »

VA-895 ==> I-895
VA-195 ==> I-195
VA-288 ==> I-695
VA-164 ==> I-164
MLK Fwy segment ==> I-764
VA-267 ==> I-595
Curiosity questions...

Would Virginia have to pay back federal $ to convert VA 195 as they would for VA 895?

Does the City of Richmond still object to VA 288 being placed into the interstate system?  In 1977 the city petitioned CTB to abandon the interstate idea and even suggested studying an I-195 extension to I-85 west of Petersburg...!

Why I-764 instead of continuing I-164 on over the MLK Expwy?

I don't think that VDOT would necessarily have to pay back federal funds to obtain I-895, that was an idea that I posted on my Route 895 website article back in 2002.  They should like some other states request a clause be added to the next federal transportation bill to allow this designation.

I wasn't aware that the City of Richmond had a stance on VA-288 in 1977, I was aware that they were very outspoken against I-295 being built south of US-60, thinking that it would harm the city economically.  I-295 was already under construction north of the city between I-64 at Short Pump and US-60 at Sandston.

I propose using Interstate I-164 on the Western Freeway and then thru the 2-lane ramps of the Pinners Point Interchange that connect to the Midtown Tunnel approach highway, thru the Midtown Tunnel, and terminating I-164 at the interchange with West Brambleton Avenue and Hampton Boulevard in downtown Norfolk.

I-164 would be an Interstate spur route connecting I-664 to downtown Norfolk and Hampton Boulevard.  I-664 and I-164 would be an appropriate designated Interstate highway connector between Hampton, Newport News, Portsmouth and Norfolk.  It could even function as an "interim third Hampton Roads crossing", exploiting the fact that currently the I-664 HR tunnel carries about 1/2 of the volume of the I-64 HR tunnel.

The Martin Luther King Freeway between the Pinners Point Interchange and I-264 near downtown Portsmough, would be designated as Interstate I-764.  A short but vital highway that connects I-164 to I-264 and the Downtown Tunnel / Berkley Bridge complex.

Post Merge: June 17, 2017, 07:19:23 PM
Of all the proposed interstates Beltway mentioned, VA-288/I-695 seems to be the most logical addition to the Interstate system, since it acts as a shortcut to I-95 from I-64 and vice versa, with the added bonus of bypassing Richmond.

These Interstate/interregional traffic movements that bypass Richmond are signed on the highway system --
1) Westbound I-64 traffic heading for I-95 south of Richmond to Petersburg is directed by sign on I-64 near Short Pump to use VA-288.
2) Northbound I-95 traffic heading for I-64 west of Richmond to Charlottesville is directed by sign on I-95 near Chester to use VA-288.

Such traffic movements should not temporarily leave the Interstate system, the bypass should be an Interstate highway.

Post Merge: June 17, 2017, 07:19:27 PM
Echoing Mike's I-764 question.  Meanwhile, I'd think an I-x66 would be more appropriate for VA 267.

I considered that, and Route 566 is not currently in use.  It seemed somewhat awkward to have a 28-mile-long spur branching off the mainline route only 8 miles from its terminus.

Route 595 is also not currently in use.  I tended to favor the route being part of the I-95 system, like I-795 branches from I-695 in Maryland.

But I will grant that I-566 would work.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 07:19:27 PM by 74/171FAN »
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74/171FAN

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2408 on: June 17, 2017, 07:32:11 PM »

Echoing Mike's I-764 question.  Meanwhile, I'd think an I-x66 would be more appropriate for VA 267.

I considered that, and Route 566 is not currently in use.  It seemed somewhat awkward to have a 28-mile-long spur branching off the mainline route only 8 miles from its terminus.

Route 595 is also not currently in use.  I tended to favor the route being part of the I-95 system, like I-795 branches from I-695 in Maryland.

But I will grant that I-566 would work.

I guess I-595 confusion would be minimal since most in MD do not even know that the one there exists.

Sadly, my main response to this topic is that "Maybe one day I-366 will exist along VA 28 after all".   :-D 

« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 07:44:07 PM by 74/171FAN »
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2409 on: June 17, 2017, 08:47:32 PM »

In 1977 the city petitioned CTB to abandon the interstate idea and even suggested studying an I-195 extension to I-85 west of Petersburg...!

Damn it seems like Richmond officials of that era wanted to ultimately have the I-85/I-95 junction in Richmond instead of Petersburg with such a proposal. When combined with those other issues you guys mentioned it seems those officials were either crazy, ignorant or just straight up assholes. Given the turmoil and controversies the city was experiencing, maybe it was a combination of the 3 lmao.



For fantasy I actually floated an idea on another thread a while back of having an expressway that started at VA 288 just west of Pocahontas State Park, go southward, then southeast, cross the Appomattox River just downstream from Lake Chesdin, junction I-85 below US 460, then east to the I-95/I-295 junction (basically this would create a beltway around both Richmond AND Petersburg). I realize the last part is actually the "I-85 rerouting" that was proposed back in the day but never happened.
In my head, the numbering would be as follows:

the eastern bypass would remain I-295.

the western bypass (including VA 288 west and north of the state park, plus I-295 between I-64 Short Pump and it's northern junction with I-95) would become I-285.

VA 288 from the state park eastward would remain VA 288.. no interstate designation necessary.

south of Petersburg, the change from I-285 to I-295 would occur either halfway between I-85 and I-95 or at the Dinwiddie/Prince George county line.

the junction of I-85/I-95 remains in downtown Petersburg (which, in my opinion, is where it belongs).
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2410 on: June 17, 2017, 09:04:58 PM »

Quote
south of Petersburg, the change from I-285 to I-295 would occur either halfway between I-85 and I-95 or at the Dinwiddie/Prince George county line.

What is wrong with just I-85 or I-95?

In this scenario, I think I would prefer west of I-95 being I-285 and east of I-95 being I-295 (resulting in a I-64/I-285 duplex in Short Pump though) or just not change I-295's routing at all and make the new freeway all I-285.

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Jmiles32

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2411 on: June 17, 2017, 09:15:20 PM »

Echoing Mike's I-764 question.  Meanwhile, I'd think an I-x66 would be more appropriate for VA 267.

I considered that, and Route 566 is not currently in use.  It seemed somewhat awkward to have a 28-mile-long spur branching off the mainline route only 8 miles from its terminus.

Route 595 is also not currently in use.  I tended to favor the route being part of the I-95 system, like I-795 branches from I-695 in Maryland.

But I will grant that I-566 would work.

I guess I-595 confusion would be minimal since most in MD do not even know that the one there exists.

Sadly, my main response to this topic is that "Maybe one day I-366 will exist along VA 28 after all".   :-D 



IMO the perfect time/opportunity to designate a state highway that is either near or already at Interstate Standards into an Interstate is right after a major construction/improvement project takes place on that highway. New Name(Interstate designation)= New and Improved Highway= Hopefully less confusion among drivers. Unfortunately I think VDOT missed a perfect chance to do this by not turning VA-164 into I-164 after they extended the MLK freeway to I-264.
VA-288 should definitely be designated an interstate(either I-695 or even I-864) and whenever VDOT decides to widen at least some portions of VA-288 to six or more lanes(hopefully relatively soon), that would also be a great time to pursue an I-Shield

Finally the most perfect opportunity of all for VDOT to turn an existing state highway into an interstate would be you guessed it: VA-28 into I-366 right after the I-66 Express Lanes Project concludes in around 2022.
As a result of the massive project, the I-66/VA-28 interchange will be properly upgraded and the last lights on that section of VA-28 would be eliminated thus making VA-28 meet interstate standards all the way from I-66 to VA-7(15 miles).
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2412 on: June 17, 2017, 09:15:58 PM »

Quote
south of Petersburg, the change from I-285 to I-295 would occur either halfway between I-85 and I-95 or at the Dinwiddie/Prince George county line.

What is wrong with just I-85 or I-95?

In this scenario, I think I would prefer west of I-95 being I-285 and east of I-95 being I-295 (resulting in a I-64/I-285 duplex in Short Pump though) or just not change I-295's routing at all and make the new freeway all I-285.

I simply couldn't decide whether the change would occur at I-85 or I-95 so I went with the middle  :-D

When I thought up the idea I already knew that I-285 would have to be duplexed with I-64.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2413 on: June 17, 2017, 09:17:48 PM »

I considered that, and Route 566 is not currently in use.  It seemed somewhat awkward to have a 28-mile-long spur branching off the mainline route only 8 miles from its terminus.

Route 595 is also not currently in use.  I tended to favor the route being part of the I-95 system, like I-795 branches from I-695 in Maryland.

But I will grant that I-566 would work.
I guess I-595 confusion would be minimal since most in MD do not even know that the one there exists.

Sadly, my main response to this topic is that "Maybe one day I-366 will exist along VA 28 after all".   :-D 

When the segment of VA-28 north of I-66 has no more at-grade intersections, I would recommend that it be re-designated as an Interstate route.  Save I-566 for future use there.

Of course, Virginia could do a 'Maryland' and re-designate VA-267 as I-98 !
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2414 on: June 18, 2017, 09:26:04 AM »

I considered that, and Route 566 is not currently in use.  It seemed somewhat awkward to have a 28-mile-long spur branching off the mainline route only 8 miles from its terminus.

Route 595 is also not currently in use.  I tended to favor the route being part of the I-95 system, like I-795 branches from I-695 in Maryland.

But I will grant that I-566 would work.
I guess I-595 confusion would be minimal since most in MD do not even know that the one there exists.

Sadly, my main response to this topic is that "Maybe one day I-366 will exist along VA 28 after all".   :-D 

When the segment of VA-28 north of I-66 has no more at-grade intersections, I would recommend that it be re-designated as an Interstate route.  Save I-566 for future use there.

Of course, Virginia could do a 'Maryland' and re-designate VA-267 as I-98 !

In the lore of this forum, that segment of VA-28 is to become I-366, possibly with an 85-mph speed limit. It's a bit of a running joke because of a former forum member named ethanman62817, now banned, who was obsessed with that road becoming an Interstate.

You can find a thread discussing the joke at the link below, and somewhere within the thread someone linked ethanman's posts. He used to ask some really stupid questions, like "Why is the speed limit only 55 mph on I-95 in Pennsylvania?" and things like that.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16098.msg2082392#msg2082392


Edited to add: Here is the original thread about I-366.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5504.0



Setting aside that joke, though, I find myself looking at the "I-566" reference and wondering why not I-166.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 09:32:25 AM by 1995hoo »
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Mapmikey

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2415 on: June 18, 2017, 10:28:13 AM »


Setting aside that joke, though, I find myself looking at the "I-566" reference and wondering why not I-166.

Because there is already a VA 166 and an unposted VA 366
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2416 on: June 18, 2017, 10:34:50 AM »


Setting aside that joke, though, I find myself looking at the "I-566" reference and wondering why not I-166.

Because there is already a VA 166 and an unposted VA 366

Ah. Good point. Obviously I forgot about that.

Edited to add: Doesn't stop us from having US-360 and VA-360 that intersect each other, though
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 01:12:10 PM by 1995hoo »
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2417 on: June 18, 2017, 02:44:09 PM »

Setting aside that joke, though, I find myself looking at the "I-566" reference and wondering why not I-166.
Because there is already a VA 166 and an unposted VA 366

That was my thinking.

Ah. Good point. Obviously I forgot about that.

Edited to add: Doesn't stop us from having US-360 and VA-360 that intersect each other, though

A number of states have duplicated numbers between highway systems.  Even Virginia has a few.

I-381 and VA-381. 
I-195 and VA-195.

The Route 195 designation has been in use on these highways for 40 years, so my proposal would simply make it all an Interstate designation.  AFAIK no federal funds were used on VA-195.

My proposals were designed to follow the rules as much as possible with regard to Interstate numbering and duplications.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2418 on: June 18, 2017, 06:56:08 PM »

Most of Virginia's are continuations of the US or Interstate route with the same number.  They considered renumbering VA 311 when US 311 came back but to this point I haven't seen any thing further on that.

VA 13 should've been VA 284 when it was christened and makes no sense to me at all...

VA 360 was supposed to be US 360 ALT which for some reason AASHTO vetoed.  No idea why VDOT didn't post it as VA 360 ALT...
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2419 on: June 20, 2017, 01:58:30 PM »

Related to the discussion about US 58 in Suffolk from last week, I've finally mapped out a concept for connecting the Holland and Suffolk bypasses.  It's a modification to a concept I sketched out 15 years ago.  Details and a map are in the Fictional folder.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2420 on: June 20, 2017, 02:18:42 PM »

Related to the discussion about US 58 in Suffolk from last week, I've finally mapped out a concept for connecting the Holland and Suffolk bypasses.  It's a modification to a concept I sketched out 15 years ago.  Details and a map are in the Fictional folder.

That looks like a workable preliminary design.  I hadn't put deep thought into how to have a full interchange between the existing bypass and the bypass extension and the old US-58, but that one looks like it has it covered.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2421 on: June 20, 2017, 08:51:23 PM »

I considered that, and Route 566 is not currently in use.  It seemed somewhat awkward to have a 28-mile-long spur branching off the mainline route only 8 miles from its terminus.

Route 595 is also not currently in use.  I tended to favor the route being part of the I-95 system, like I-795 branches from I-695 in Maryland.

But I will grant that I-566 would work.
I guess I-595 confusion would be minimal since most in MD do not even know that the one there exists.

Sadly, my main response to this topic is that "Maybe one day I-366 will exist along VA 28 after all".   :-D 

When the segment of VA-28 north of I-66 has no more at-grade intersections, I would recommend that it be re-designated as an Interstate route.  Save I-566 for future use there.

Of course, Virginia could do a 'Maryland' and re-designate VA-267 as I-98 !

In the lore of this forum, that segment of VA-28 is to become I-366, possibly with an 85-mph speed limit. It's a bit of a running joke because of a former forum member named ethanman62817, now banned, who was obsessed with that road becoming an Interstate.

You can find a thread discussing the joke at the link below, and somewhere within the thread someone linked ethanman's posts. He used to ask some really stupid questions, like "Why is the speed limit only 55 mph on I-95 in Pennsylvania?" and things like that.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16098.msg2082392#msg2082392


Edited to add: Here is the original thread about I-366.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5504.0



Setting aside that joke, though, I find myself looking at the "I-566" reference and wondering why not I-166.
Its funny you did not link the post where ethanman8675309 or whatever told everyone on here to just go 85 mph and if we get pulled over mention his username on here and the cops will let you go free and clear.  That was his best work next to disguising himself as a username close to mine and asking why the interstate system is missing route numbers by actually using a list and dots and  :confused:   Of course agentsteel called him out on that one as both users did ask the very same stupid questions at the same time and of course roadman66 left right about the time that ethan got banned.

He was a character for sure.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2422 on: June 21, 2017, 07:28:30 AM »

It's in the thread I linked as "the original thread about I-366":

Yeah, trying to go 60 on VA 28 would be insane. Even though the only time I've ever been on it was at 2 AM, I could see why it's 45 at most points.

For the freeway section of route 28, I can let you drive 65.
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Mapmikey

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2423 on: June 22, 2017, 09:18:30 PM »

The VA 92 replacement bridge over the Staunton River shows up in the revised Virginia 6-year plan...

http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/lineitemDetails.aspx?syp_scenario_id=233&line_item_id=1498338

$12M with construction starting in 2022.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #2424 on: June 22, 2017, 09:46:59 PM »

The VA 92 replacement bridge over the Staunton River shows up in the revised Virginia 6-year plan...
http://syip.virginiadot.org/Pages/lineitemDetails.aspx?syp_scenario_id=233&line_item_id=1498338
$12M with construction starting in 2022.

I believe that was old US-360 before the relocation was built between Clover and Wylliesburg.

That bridge is old and decrepit.  Doesn't carry much traffic.  Wonder if they are going to keep part of the old truss structure on display.
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