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Author Topic: Virginia  (Read 745711 times)

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4400 on: September 09, 2019, 10:04:43 PM »

Definitely US 13.

I've driven US 113 also (it's actually my preferred route to/from Dover northward unless DE 1 is riddled with beach traffic), but it never seemed to be the cash cow that US 13 is.

I've never viewed US 13 in DE as dangerous.. hardly any curves, just the ridiculous speed limit drops in the small towns.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4401 on: September 09, 2019, 11:56:29 PM »

Quote from: Beltway
Same recycled garbage.
Broken record.
Pot, kettle, black.

Again, you’re just putting words in my mouth to support your “arguments”. I never said I like going 20+ over the speed limit. I prefer going a comfortable and appropriate speed for the road I’m on. 70 mph on a divided highway is no where unreasonable nor reckless. The “law” is setting an absurdly slow 55 - 60 mph artificial limit that is strictly based on functional class rather than what the road is designed for and can safely handle.
60 mph on US-58 and that is in line with other eastern seaboard states for a 4-lane non-limited-access highway, and Maryland doesn't even have that high of a limit.

Why are you going 81+ mph on US-58?

My attack is based on the fact that local municipalities (I.E Emporia, Hopewell, and others) use this to their advantage and use highways with under posted speed limits to pull people over and cite as “reckless driving” when they’re maintaining a rather appropriate speed for the design of the roadway. I.E. doing 75 mph on a well designed divided highway with an absurdly slow 55 mph limit.
What highway in that area has a 55 mph speed limit and is appropriate for 75 mph?

I don't see any that are under-posted except possibly the limited access US-58 bypasses of Franklin and Suffolk, and that would only be 5 mph, or needing a 65 mph limit, and I have pegged that in the past on the traffic engineering unit of that VDOT district not taking a "statewide practices" view, as other districts have posted 65 mph on that type of arterial bypass.
 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 12:04:47 AM by Beltway »
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4402 on: September 10, 2019, 12:08:58 AM »

Why are you going 81+ mph on US-58?
The highest I’ve ever hit on US-58 is in the 70 mph range.

What highway in that area has a 55 mph speed limit and is appropriate for 75 mph?
Most of the newer completed segments of US-58, such as Courtland to Emporia, South Hill to Boykins, etc. that have full 12 foot lanes, and at least 4-6 ft of paved shoulder could reasonable be posted at 70 mph, though are only 60 mph due to functional class restrictions. The other segments that aren’t as well designed as those newer segments could reasonable be 65 mph in most areas.

Last I’ve recalled, a lot of the newly completed segments of US-58 east of Hillsville are only posted 55 mph, and could easily be 70 mph based on its design and also the fact there’s little to no traffic.

Another example, a different highway but still applies, is US-17 in Southern Chesapeake. Limited-access highway, 12 foot travel lanes, 8 foot paved shoulders, rural environment, gentle curves, and it’s only 55 mph. Reasonably should be posted 70 mph - a speed that would quite frankly reflect the speed of most drivers on that road. Trying to maintain 55 mph is painful on that road.

Overall, most of arterial system (4-lane divided highways) should be at least 65 mph in rural areas, and 70 mph on the better designed ones, such as the examples above. It’s 55 - 60 mph on a lot of highways in this state and as soon as an interchange or overpass appears, the road design still the same, and all of a sudden the speed limit is now 65 mph, simply due to functional class.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 12:17:46 AM by sprjus4 »
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4403 on: September 10, 2019, 12:27:00 AM »

Why are you going 81+ mph on US-58?
I sure as hell wouldn't drive that fast on a 60 mph stretch.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4404 on: September 10, 2019, 12:59:06 AM »

What highway in that area has a 55 mph speed limit and is appropriate for 75 mph?
Most of the newer completed segments of US-58, such as Courtland to Emporia, South Hill to Boykins, etc. that have full 12 foot lanes, and at least 4-6 ft of paved shoulder could reasonable be posted at 70 mph, though are only 60 mph due to functional class restrictions. The other segments that aren’t as well designed as those newer segments could reasonable be 65 mph in most areas.
Once again, those are not the prevailing speed limits in eastern seaboard states, which have high populations within a modest sized state. 

60 mph on non-limited-access 4-lane divided highways, 60 to 65 mph on limited-access 4-lane divided non-Interstate highways, that is average or slightly above average.

Maryland has no limits above 55 mph on non-limited-access 4-lane divided highways, and (someone correct me if I am wrong) neither does Delaware or New Jersey or Connecticut.  I don't think New York or Pennsylvania does either.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4405 on: September 10, 2019, 01:17:50 AM »

What highway in that area has a 55 mph speed limit and is appropriate for 75 mph?
Most of the newer completed segments of US-58, such as Courtland to Emporia, South Hill to Boykins, etc. that have full 12 foot lanes, and at least 4-6 ft of paved shoulder could reasonable be posted at 70 mph, though are only 60 mph due to functional class restrictions. The other segments that aren’t as well designed as those newer segments could reasonable be 65 mph in most areas.
Once again, those are not the prevailing speed limits in eastern seaboard states, which have high populations within a modest sized state. 

60 mph on non-limited-access 4-lane divided highways, 60 to 65 mph on limited-access 4-lane divided non-Interstate highways, that is average or slightly above average.

Maryland has no limits above 55 mph on non-limited-access 4-lane divided highways, and (someone correct me if I am wrong) neither does Delaware or New Jersey or Connecticut.  I don't think New York or Pennsylvania does either.

Correct to my knowledge.  Honestly I feel that thanks to "Virginia twinning" discussed elsewhere, some 60 mph divided highways are posted a little high, 50-55 might be more reasonable for the non-reconstructed lanes.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4406 on: September 10, 2019, 07:29:23 AM »

Maryland has no limits above 55 mph on non-limited-access 4-lane divided highways, and (someone correct me if I am wrong) neither does Delaware or New Jersey or Connecticut.  I don't think New York or Pennsylvania does either.
Correct to my knowledge.  Honestly I feel that thanks to "Virginia twinning" discussed elsewhere, some 60 mph divided highways are posted a little high, 50-55 might be more reasonable for the non-reconstructed lanes.

I don't know of any that are over-posted at 60 mph, the routes approved for up to 60 mph all have some sections that are still 55.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4407 on: September 10, 2019, 07:42:06 AM »

Maryland has no limits above 55 mph on non-limited-access 4-lane divided highways, and (someone correct me if I am wrong) neither does Delaware or New Jersey or Connecticut.  I don't think New York or Pennsylvania does either.
Correct to my knowledge.  Honestly I feel that thanks to "Virginia twinning" discussed elsewhere, some 60 mph divided highways are posted a little high, 50-55 might be more reasonable for the non-reconstructed lanes.

I don't know of any that are over-posted at 60 mph, the routes approved for up to 60 mph all have some sections that are still 55.
I would go to say I do agree some stretches - such as US-58 between Danville and Martinsville - that have substandard, hilly roadways are appropriately posted at 60 mph and should not be increased farther.

Having 70 mph permitted on non-limited-access may push it, but at the minimum 65 mph should be permitted where appropriate - similar to some “Eastern Seaboard” states like Florida and Georgia, plus also Alabama and West Virginia one state inland.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4408 on: September 10, 2019, 08:01:39 AM »

I don't know of any that are over-posted at 60 mph, the routes approved for up to 60 mph all have some sections that are still 55.
I would go to say I do agree some stretches - such as US-58 between Danville and Martinsville - that have substandard, hilly roadways are appropriately posted at 60 mph and should not be increased farther.
Having 70 mph permitted on non-limited-access may push it, but at the minimum 65 mph should be permitted where appropriate - similar to some “Eastern Seaboard” states like Florida and Georgia, plus also Alabama and West Virginia one state inland.

The vast majority do not, Alabama is not an eastern seaboard state, and the West Virginia routes you refer to are 4-lane expressways with limited access right-of-way, i.e. no private entrances or access, the only at-grade intersections are with selected public roads, and even then the most important junctions are handled with an interchange, and I would agree with 65 mph on such a highway, and examples/candiates in Virginia would be the 6.8 mile US-460 Poole Siding Bypass (https://tinyurl.com/y6skqfjj) and the 8.0 mile US-460 Blackstone-Nottoway Bypass.
 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:14:17 AM by Beltway »
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4409 on: September 10, 2019, 09:36:24 AM »

It seems that its the amount of roads that can handle the higher limits tells legislatures if a non freeway speed limit should be higher than 55. 

I agree some roads in Maryland like US 301 on the eastern shore could easily be 65, but that might be it along with US 15 north of Frederick, which leaves 2 roads that the state is not going to waste their time in pushing.

Then you have Utah (correct me if I am wrong) that only allows speed limits higher than 65 on interstates only!  According to Wiki it says that even non interstate freeways are posted at maximum 65 mph.  So that some not worth it scenario is not always the trick.  Even GA, from what I heard that GRIP corridors with 4 lane rural segments cannot be posted higher than 55 either where non GRIP 4 lane rural parts are 65 since congress repelled the national 55 thing. 

States can be funny with speed limits as even regions within a state can.  FL law allows all rural 2 lane roads to be posted at 60 mph, yet not all districts comply and still have 55 mph very rural roadways.  District 6 is one of them and I believe District 3 as well.  District 5 only allows 60 on a select few rural 2 lane roads such as State Road 50 in Sumter County west of Tarrytown and on SR 60 in Osceola County west of Yeehaw Junction.   County Roads are posted at 55 except for CR 532 in Osceola east of St. Cloud and Hardee County has one road west of Zolfo Springs that is 60 that I all know of in that regard.

Yes, generally the mid Atlantic and Northeast are ones that like to reserve mostly higher than 55 to freeways and very hard to convince the states to review the local highways for higher maximum speeds.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4410 on: September 10, 2019, 10:01:34 AM »

Quote
Maryland has no limits above 55 mph on non-limited-access 4-lane divided highways, and (someone correct me if I am wrong) neither does Delaware or New Jersey or Connecticut.  I don't think New York or Pennsylvania does either.

Everything northeast of Virginia/Kentucky/Ohio.  Vermont takes it one step further and doesn't allow anything higher than 50 on non-limited-access (or higher than 55 on non-controlled-access).
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4411 on: September 10, 2019, 12:35:01 PM »

States can be funny with speed limits as even regions within a state can.  FL law allows all rural 2 lane roads to be posted at 60 mph, yet not all districts comply and still have 55 mph very rural roadways.  District 6 is one of them and I believe District 3 as well.  District 5 only allows 60 on a select few rural 2 lane roads such as State Road 50 in Sumter County west of Tarrytown and on SR 60 in Osceola County west of Yeehaw Junction.   County Roads are posted at 55 except for CR 532 in Osceola east of St. Cloud and Hardee County has one road west of Zolfo Springs that is 60 that I all know of in that regard.

Back in the 1960s I recall 70 mph on US-1 south of Melbourne, 65 at night, that is 4-lane divided and non-limited-access.

US-192 got a high-quality 2-lane relocation between Melbourne and St. Cloud in the mid-1960s, and that was 65 mph.

NMSL killed that.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4412 on: September 11, 2019, 07:03:12 PM »

States can be funny with speed limits as even regions within a state can.  FL law allows all rural 2 lane roads to be posted at 60 mph, yet not all districts comply and still have 55 mph very rural roadways.  District 6 is one of them and I believe District 3 as well.  District 5 only allows 60 on a select few rural 2 lane roads such as State Road 50 in Sumter County west of Tarrytown and on SR 60 in Osceola County west of Yeehaw Junction.   County Roads are posted at 55 except for CR 532 in Osceola east of St. Cloud and Hardee County has one road west of Zolfo Springs that is 60 that I all know of in that regard.

Back in the 1960s I recall 70 mph on US-1 south of Melbourne, 65 at night, that is 4-lane divided and non-limited-access.

US-192 got a high-quality 2-lane relocation between Melbourne and St. Cloud in the mid-1960s, and that was 65 mph.

NMSL killed that.
NMSL, at least in Virginia, killed 60 mph on all non-limited-access highways, 65 mph on select non-limited-access highways (which never went into effect, but was approved), 70 mph on now-urban interstates such as I-64 in Chesapeake, I-495 in Northern Virginia / Maryland, etc.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4413 on: September 11, 2019, 07:21:12 PM »

Recently drove through the newly completed segment of I-64 outside of Richmond, this time during the day, and took a few photos heading westbound. Note that while only a 4 ft left paved shoulder was used most of the project, the guardrailed and bridged sections use a full 10 ft paved left shoulder. The speed limit on this section is posted at 65 mph, with the limit reducing from 70 mph just east of Exit 205.

Bridges over Chickahominy River


Typical mainline section


2 mile advanced APL for I-295 (notice the newly constructed sound barrier off to the right)


1/2 mile advanced APL for I-295 (notice the obvious transition between 4 and 10 ft left paved shoulder where the guardrail is)


APL at I-295
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 07:23:45 PM by sprjus4 »
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4414 on: September 11, 2019, 08:00:11 PM »

States can be funny with speed limits as even regions within a state can.  FL law allows all rural 2 lane roads to be posted at 60 mph, yet not all districts comply and still have 55 mph very rural roadways.  District 6 is one of them and I believe District 3 as well.  District 5 only allows 60 on a select few rural 2 lane roads such as State Road 50 in Sumter County west of Tarrytown and on SR 60 in Osceola County west of Yeehaw Junction.   County Roads are posted at 55 except for CR 532 in Osceola east of St. Cloud and Hardee County has one road west of Zolfo Springs that is 60 that I all know of in that regard.

Back in the 1960s I recall 70 mph on US-1 south of Melbourne, 65 at night, that is 4-lane divided and non-limited-access.

US-192 got a high-quality 2-lane relocation between Melbourne and St. Cloud in the mid-1960s, and that was 65 mph.

NMSL killed that.
NMSL, at least in Virginia, killed 60 mph on all non-limited-access highways, 65 mph on select non-limited-access highways (which never went into effect, but was approved), 70 mph on now-urban interstates such as I-64 in Chesapeake, I-495 in Northern Virginia / Maryland, etc.

Was the Beltway ever posted at 70 in Virginia? Every picture I’ve ever seen shows nothing above 65, though I understand Maryland had at least some portion posted at 70.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4415 on: September 11, 2019, 08:14:05 PM »

States can be funny with speed limits as even regions within a state can.  FL law allows all rural 2 lane roads to be posted at 60 mph, yet not all districts comply and still have 55 mph very rural roadways.  District 6 is one of them and I believe District 3 as well.  District 5 only allows 60 on a select few rural 2 lane roads such as State Road 50 in Sumter County west of Tarrytown and on SR 60 in Osceola County west of Yeehaw Junction.   County Roads are posted at 55 except for CR 532 in Osceola east of St. Cloud and Hardee County has one road west of Zolfo Springs that is 60 that I all know of in that regard.

Back in the 1960s I recall 70 mph on US-1 south of Melbourne, 65 at night, that is 4-lane divided and non-limited-access.

US-192 got a high-quality 2-lane relocation between Melbourne and St. Cloud in the mid-1960s, and that was 65 mph.

NMSL killed that.
NMSL, at least in Virginia, killed 60 mph on all non-limited-access highways, 65 mph on select non-limited-access highways (which never went into effect, but was approved), 70 mph on now-urban interstates such as I-64 in Chesapeake, I-495 in Northern Virginia / Maryland, etc.

Was the Beltway ever posted at 70 in Virginia? Every picture I’ve ever seen shows nothing above 65, though I understand Maryland had at least some portion posted at 70.
Not Virginia, but in Maryland

65 mph; 55 mph in Virginia, and 70 mph; 60 mph in Maryland (car; truck)

Would be curious to know how I-95 was posted, both inside the beltway and outside, in Virginia.

Per Roads to the Future...

Quote
The vast majority of the length of the Beltway was geometrically designed for 70 mph. Both Potomac River bridges and their immediate approaches had a speed limit of 60 mph. The 21 miles of Beltway in Virginia, between within 1/2 mile of each Potomac River bridge, had a speed limit of 65 mph for cars and 55 mph for trucks. The 29 miles of Beltway in Maryland between 1/2 mile of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge and MD-97 Georgia Avenue, had a speed limit of 70 mph for cars and 60 mph for trucks. Just west of MD-97, the speed limit dropped to 60 mph, and in the 2-mile serpentine section in Rock Creek Park the speed limit was 50 mph. The 8 miles of Beltway between MD-355 Wisconsin Avenue and 1/2 mile into Virginia, had a speed limit of 60 mph. The above cites of a single speed limit for a section, denotes that there was no car/truck speed limit differential on that section.

http://www.capital-beltway.com/Capital-Beltway-History.html#Speed-Limits

Realistically, it should be 60 mph minimum throughout with 65 mph posted where appropriate. For instance, the segment where the Express Lanes are posted at 65 mph, the general purpose lanes could also handle that speed limit. Much of the I-95 / I-495 overlap could also handle it, at least in Maryland.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 08:18:02 PM by sprjus4 »
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4416 on: September 11, 2019, 09:03:07 PM »

NMSL, at least in Virginia, killed 60 mph on all non-limited-access highways, 65 mph on select non-limited-access highways (which never went into effect, but was approved), 70 mph on now-urban interstates such as I-64 in Chesapeake, I-495 in Northern Virginia / Maryland, etc.

NMSL killed all speed limits above 55 mph and in every state.

VA I-495 was never 70 mph, and to my recall neither was I-64 in South Hampton Roads.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4417 on: September 11, 2019, 09:37:12 PM »

and to my recall neither was I-64 in South Hampton Roads.
Not my posting, and I wouldn't be able to say as I was not around in the 70s, but per another user...

I remember I-64 in Chesapeake posted at 70 mph in 1972-73.  Of course, it was a lot more rural then (no Greenbrier interchange, no Oak Grove Connector, no Exit 297, only 6-lane section was between I-464 and Battlefield Blvd.).

The I-64 lanes you see now from Bowers Hill to the east end of the High Rise Bridge is what it was back then--two lanes and fairly narrow left shoulders.  Plus, until the mid 1990's, the ramps to I-264 East and to US 13/460 were single lane ramps (no I-664 until 1992).  Until the mid to late 1970's, I-264 ended at an at-grade intersection with US 13/460 (Military Highway) near where the America's Best Value motel is currently (the roads have been reconfigured since then).

I do believe the Norfolk-Va. Beach Expressway was 70 mph also.  It was just four lanes from Newtown Rd. to the end/beginning at 21st and 22nd Streets, and not quite as crowded.  It was also signed as VA 44 along with a round, green Norfolk-Va. Beach Expressway logo on a pole beside the VA 44 sign.  There were also 7 original interchanges (marked as Exit 1, Newtown Road-Exit 7, Birdneck Road).  The First Colonial interchange wasn't built until the late 1980's, I believe.

IIRC, US 17 from VA 135 to the James River Bridge, excepting the two bridges over the Nansemond River and Chuckatuck Creek, was signed at 60 mph until 1973.  Those two above bridges were built the same way as the original James River Bridge, narrow as crap!

I am certain I-64 from Jefferson Ave. in Newport News to the then temporary end west of the Camp Peary interchange was signed at 70 mph also.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4418 on: September 11, 2019, 10:44:26 PM »

and to my recall neither was I-64 in South Hampton Roads.
Not my posting, and I wouldn't be able to say as I was not around in the 70s, but per another user...

I am very skeptical, for one thing the Virginia increase from 65 to 70 was only about 12 months before the 55 NMSL was imposed nationwide.  I rather doubt they would have raised anything to 70 in South Hampton Roads, not that quickly.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4419 on: September 11, 2019, 11:12:03 PM »

Was the Beltway ever posted at 70 in Virginia? Every picture I’ve ever seen shows nothing above 65, though I understand Maryland had at least some portion posted at 70.

I do not recall anything higher than 60 MPH on the Capital Beltway in the Commonwealth.  Back then, the  Virginia Department of Highways (VDH) loved split speed limits, and the truck limit might have been 55 MPH (but not sure if it was 55 or something else).

Most of the Capital Beltway in Prince George's County, Maryland was signed 70 MPH. I think the limits were from present-day Exit 3 (MD-210) Indian Head Highway) to someplace north of present-day Exit 22 (unsigned MD-295 Baltimore-Washington Parkway). 

In Montgomery County it varied from 60 MPH to 50 MPH (the original blacktop pavement that was in place in 1964 between a point west of present-day Exit 31 (MD-97 near where the LDS Temple now stands) to present-day Exit 41 (Clara Barton Parkway now, G. W. Parkway then) was notoriously slippery when dry and especially wet.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 03:21:52 PM by cpzilliacus »
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4420 on: September 12, 2019, 12:11:11 AM »

I do not recall anything higher than 60 MPH on the Capital Beltway in the Commonwealth.  Back then, the  Virginia Department of Highways (VDH) loved split speed limits, and the truck limit might have been 55 MPH (but not sure if it was 55 or something else).

Just before opening between I-95 and Van Dorn Street --


It was 65 / 55 when I moved there in 1969.  Remained that until 55 NMSL in 1973.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4421 on: September 12, 2019, 12:31:13 AM »

I do not recall anything higher than 60 MPH on the Capital Beltway in the Commonwealth.  Back then, the  Virginia Department of Highways (VDH) loved split speed limits, and the truck limit might have been 55 MPH (but not sure if it was 55 or something else).

Just before opening between I-95 and Van Dorn Street --


It was 65 / 55 when I moved there in 1969.  Remained that until 55 NMSL in 1973.
Are the hills and elevations exaggerated, or were they really like that? It's a lot smoother today and gentle.
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4422 on: September 12, 2019, 12:40:18 AM »

I do not recall anything higher than 60 MPH on the Capital Beltway in the Commonwealth.  Back then, the  Virginia Department of Highways (VDH) loved split speed limits, and the truck limit might have been 55 MPH (but not sure if it was 55 or something else).

Just before opening between I-95 and Van Dorn Street --

It was 65 / 55 when I moved there in 1969.  Remained that until 55 NMSL in 1973.
Are the hills and elevations exaggerated, or were they really like that? It's a lot smoother today and gentle.
Telephoto lens above.
Regular lens --
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famartin

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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4423 on: September 12, 2019, 01:42:25 AM »

Looks like that photo was taken approximately here
https://goo.gl/maps/XyNUhAt2jDrzaJA56
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Re: Virginia
« Reply #4424 on: September 12, 2019, 06:40:58 AM »

Looks like that photo was taken approximately here
https://goo.gl/maps/XyNUhAt2jDrzaJA56
Somewhere near there.  Looks like they may have flattened that sag vertical curve in the Springfield Interchange Project.

The bridge at the top of the hill is over the railroads CSXT and WMATA.  Just RF&P (Richmond, Fredericksburg, and Potomac Railroad) back when originally built.
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