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Author Topic: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?  (Read 6824 times)

Roadgeekteen

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Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« on: June 20, 2021, 08:23:37 PM »

It has a bizarre loop on some surface roads that brings it somewhat close to Toronto, but it doesn't actually reach to city.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2021, 08:33:43 PM »

Maybe the same reason why NYC doesnít get served by a x0 US route?
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2021, 09:38:49 PM »

It has a bizarre loop on some surface roads that brings it somewhat close to Toronto, but it doesn't actually reach to city.
Too far off a straight line route.

Roadgeekteen

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2021, 10:08:45 PM »

It has a bizarre loop on some surface roads that brings it somewhat close to Toronto, but it doesn't actually reach to city.
Too far off a straight line route.
What's the point of the suburban loop then?
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2021, 09:24:09 AM »

It has a bizarre loop on some surface roads that brings it somewhat close to Toronto, but it doesn't actually reach to city.

As much as Toronto would like to think they're the Centre of the Universe....they're not! :)

And here in Nova Scotia...the Trans Canada Highway misses Halifax, the Capital by 100km as it takes a direct route from the NB-NS Border at Amherst to the Newfoundland Ferry at North Sydney. 
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2021, 09:55:22 AM »

It has a bizarre loop on some surface roads that brings it somewhat close to Toronto, but it doesn't actually reach to city.

As much as Toronto would like to think they're the Centre of the Universe....they're not! :)

And here in Nova Scotia...the Trans Canada Highway misses Halifax, the Capital by 100km as it takes a direct route from the NB-NS Border at Amherst to the Newfoundland Ferry at North Sydney.

The TCH does start/finish in Victoria and skirt Vancouver and bisects the southern part of the Fraser Valley.  It has not taken the most direct route since 1986 when the Coquihalla Highway was built from Hope to Merritt and then Kamloops.  It follows the Fraser River to Lytton and then the Thompson River to Kamloops,, adding about 75 km or 1 1/2 hours to the route. 
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2021, 10:09:13 AM »

Maybe the same reason why NYC doesnít get served by a x0 US route?

US 1 goes through NYC and that's a main US route
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2021, 11:09:11 AM »

Maybe the same reason why NYC doesnít get served by a x0 US route?

US 1 goes through NYC and that's a main US route
I know, but for a city its size, you expect it to get both a x1 and x0. Maybe US 20 wouldíve went to NYC if US 10 didnít end in Detroit and used the route to Boston instead, but thatís fictional stuff.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2021, 11:33:15 AM »

I've always wondered that myself, but having lots of 400-series highways (mainly 401) should make up for it.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2021, 12:54:20 PM »

Maybe the same reason why NYC doesnít get served by a x0 US route?
Yeah strange that US 30 and US 40 go to Atlantic City. One should have been routed further north.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2021, 05:00:44 PM »

Maybe the same reason why NYC doesnít get served by a x0 US route?

US 1 goes through NYC and that's a main US route
I know, but for a city its size, you expect it to get both a x1 and x0. Maybe US 20 wouldíve went to NYC if US 10 didnít end in Detroit and used the route to Boston instead, but thatís fictional stuff.

New York's relative dearth of US routes is due mostly to one guy from New York on the US route numbering committee who favored very strict limitations on what qualified to be a US route. He drew up NY's US route system based on his own preferences, then nobody else on the committee agreed with him and didn't follow his example.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2021, 07:32:02 PM »

Not a single non-freeway Ontario Provincial Highway goes within Toronto's borders - although that's for a different reason (due to the province not wanting to pay for them anymore in 1997, and thus transferring the responsibility of the routes (incl. Highway 2, 5, 11, 27, 48, 50) over to the municipality).

As for the TCH, it isn't really taken seriously in Ontario anyways. They're only signed on reassurance markers, and not at junctions, so you can't actually navigate the TCH by signs only.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2021, 06:29:50 PM »

Australia has a network of National Highways that connect all the major cities. The states number and maintain highways as they please, but the highways in the national system have a distinctive shield. Has Canada ever considered something like this?
https://www.atn.com.au/maps/australian-road-maps.html
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2021, 07:00:45 PM »

Australia has a network of National Highways that connect all the major cities. The states number and maintain highways as they please, but the highways in the national system have a distinctive shield. Has Canada ever considered something like this?
https://www.atn.com.au/maps/australian-road-maps.html
Sounds a bit like the US Highway system.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2021, 01:46:01 PM »

Continuing the Australian OT for a moment, that's out of date since many of the states have adopted alphanumeric signage and the old National Route-Highway vs State Highway distinction has all but disappeared as a result. If anything, it's gotten worse since you see hybrid signage in some places currently (VIC comes to mind), so an "A" route may not necessarily be continuously signed as "A" (or, previously, NH/NR).
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2021, 08:42:56 PM »

Continuing the Australian OT for a moment, that's out of date since many of the states have adopted alphanumeric signage and the old National Route-Highway vs State Highway distinction has all but disappeared as a result. If anything, it's gotten worse since you see hybrid signage in some places currently (VIC comes to mind), so an "A" route may not necessarily be continuously signed as "A" (or, previously, NH/NR).
Maybe Australia should have a national system.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2021, 10:22:45 AM »

Canada does have a core system of National Highways that the Federal Government contributes funding for but under the division of powers.....highways fall under Provincial and Territorial jurisdiction......not Ottawa.

https://tc.canada.ca/sites/default/files/migrated/nhs_2007.pdf
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2021, 06:23:28 PM »

Canada does have a core system of National Highways that the Federal Government contributes funding for but under the division of powers.....highways fall under Provincial and Territorial jurisdiction......not Ottawa.

https://tc.canada.ca/sites/default/files/migrated/nhs_2007.pdf
Thanks...that's exactly what I was asking about. My suggestion is that it might be helpful (to visitors from other parts of Canada or from the U.S.) for these routes to be distinguished in signage in some way.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2021, 06:44:21 PM »

I don't see why Canada would need a national numbering system anyways. Firstly, the country's population is all concentrated in the south, and the population is also pretty much split in two between the east and west.

Let's say Canada had a numbering system similar to the US Route system in the US - there would be only one route that goes coast-to-coast east-west because, there's only one major road that crosses the Manitoba/Ontario border. There would be no route that goes from the US border to the north, save for maybe a highway from BC to Alaska. The country is too large and spread out for any national numbering system to be useful, as there just wouldn't be that much traffic travelling such large distances. Provincial routes do just fine.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 10:44:30 PM by andrepoiy »
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2021, 10:39:45 PM »

I don't see a numbering system like the US routes or interstates working for Canada, for exactly that reason.  The population distribution doesn't support the concept of setting aside some routes in a grid as "transcontinental".  Something more like NY's numbering system, perhaps, which in the 1930 renumbering had numbers 1-99 be the core of the system (with lower numbers being more major, roughly) and 100+ assigned in rough clusters for the more shorter routes.

I would think having some form of national numbering system would make cross-provincial navigation easier, and it seems the western provinces agree, and they voluntarily coordinated the numbering on the TCH.  And then there's the Atlantic provinces, which are the size of US states (or smaller) but have numbering that varies wildly - I could see lots of benefit from such a system there.  That said, the area with the largest population density is also the area least likely to see a national numbered system - good luck getting Quťbec to agree to be part of such a thing.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2021, 10:55:11 PM »

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2021, 06:59:51 AM »

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.

Save your time and effort...as I noted above highways are a Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction not Federal. We can't even get two provinces to agree on Covid Quarantine requirements between each! Just like our national Health Care.....the Feds contribute to the funding but it's administered by the provinces.

Here in Nova Scotia.....TCH104 free-flows onto TCH2 at the New Brunswick border. It's not like I have to come off in Amherst and drive the back streets looking for a road to Moncton. And once in New Brunswick......at Riverglade I can take NB1 to US1 at St. Stephen/Calais and NB95 just flows onto I-95 at Woodstock/Houlton. At the Quebec Border TCH2 becomes A-85   

Ontario and Quebec...... the two most populous Provinces have only two major highway crossings: A-20 to ON401 and A-40 to ON417 (TCH). There are also 5 bridges at Ottawa/Gatineau and the northern TCH route (QC117/ON66) in the Abitibi-Temiscamingue  The other routes are secondary including a couple of bridges and ferries across the Ottawa River.

And at the Ontario Manitoba Border there is but one single two-lane highway...the TCH and it's not even a divided highway. There's also a single Canadian National Railway track and a Canadian Pacific Railway track. That's all that connects eastern and western Canada between the Minnesota Border.....all the way to the Artic. This is fly-over country vs the 1000 mile drive through the woods of Northern Ontario!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 08:10:40 AM by ghYHZ »
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2021, 07:14:22 AM »

Canada has some extensions of US route numbers. Maybe these could become standard? (Quebec currently has rules for what routes beginning with 1, 2, 3, and 4-9 are, but they're all 3 digits; numbers below 100 could be used and reserved for US route extensions.)
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2021, 01:08:25 PM »

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.

Save your time and effort...as I noted above highways are a Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction not Federal. We can't even get two provinces to agree on Covid Quarantine requirements between each! Just like our national Health Care.....the Feds contribute to the funding but it's administered by the provinces.

Here in Nova Scotia.....TCH104 free-flows onto TCH2 at the New Brunswick border. It's not like I have to come off in Amherst and drive the back streets looking for a road to Moncton. And once in New Brunswick......at Riverglade I can take NB1 to US1 at St. Stephen/Calais and NB95 just flows onto I-95 at Woodstock/Houlton. At the Quebec Border TCH2 becomes A-85   

Ontario and Quebec...... the two most populous Provinces have only two major highway crossings: A-20 to ON401 and A-40 to ON417 (TCH). There are also 5 bridges at Ottawa/Gatineau and the northern TCH route (QC117/ON66) in the Abitibi-Temiscamingue  The other routes are secondary including a couple of bridges and ferries across the Ottawa River.

And at the Ontario Manitoba Border there is but one single two-lane highway...the TCH and it's not even a divided highway. There's also a single Canadian National Railway track and a Canadian Pacific Railway track. That's all that connects eastern and western Canada between the Minnesota Border.....all the way to the Artic. This is fly-over country vs the 1000 mile drive through the woods of Northern Ontario!
When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2021, 02:10:39 PM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it. Not worth the hassles encountered now at the US Border for the little time and mileage saved:

Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Duluth: 21 hrs and 1975 km
Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay: 22 hrs and 2080 km 
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