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Author Topic: What will happen when trucks get fast?  (Read 2374 times)

kernals12

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What will happen when trucks get fast?
« on: October 28, 2022, 04:54:26 PM »

Truckers measure their 0-60 times in minutes as opposed to seconds. To prevent slow trucks from holding up traffic (and getting rear ended by faster cars), many highways include climbing lanes. But things are changing. New electric trucks can offer far quicker acceleration. Tesla claims their Semi can get from 0-60 with a full 80,000 pound load in just 20 seconds. Surely this will mean better traffic flow in a lot of places?
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kphoger

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2022, 04:55:56 PM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?
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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2022, 04:58:34 PM »

That's really not fast, says the owner of a 128hp automobile.

Considering there's not going to be a majority switchover from ICE to electric trucks for at least 15-20 years, there's not much reason to change things to accommodate a few faster trucks.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2022, 05:04:09 PM by formulanone »
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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2022, 04:58:39 PM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.
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kphoger

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2022, 05:04:17 PM »


Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.

If that's the case, then I imagine a lot of companies would instruct their drivers to not put the pedal to the metal.
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formulanone

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2022, 05:08:16 PM »


Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.

If that's the case, then I imagine a lot of companies would instruct their drivers to not put the pedal to the metal.

Or they'll be speed-limited as well as acceleration-limited.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2022, 05:21:09 PM »

Since when has 0-60 in twenty second been considered fast?  That would have been horrifically slow even the Malaise Era.
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kernals12

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2022, 05:43:19 PM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.
Unlike ICE cars, electric cars can then recapture the energy used during acceleration during braking.
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kernals12

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2022, 05:43:55 PM »

Since when has 0-60 in twenty second been considered fast?  That would have been horrifically slow even the Malaise Era.

It's probably fast enough to not warrant separate truck climbing lanes.
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CoreySamson

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2022, 07:27:16 PM »

Part of me feels like this could potentially affect how fast certain roads wear (maybe on-ramps will have to be repaved a little more often?), but honestly I don't think that it would affect it much.

Bruce

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2022, 08:18:01 PM »

Speed governors are going to become mandatory in more and more heavy vehicles (including EV cars). Too many idiots to handle going 0-60 in that short of a span with that kind of weight behind it. I foresee our rate of deaths per miles driven skyrocketing even more than it already is.
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GaryV

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2022, 09:21:39 PM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.
Unlike ICE cars, electric cars can then recapture the energy used during acceleration during braking.

Not all of it, unless you've invented perpetual motion.
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csw

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2022, 09:27:39 PM »

Since when has 0-60 in twenty second been considered fast?  That would have been horrifically slow even the Malaise Era.

It's probably fast enough to not warrant separate truck climbing lanes.
Truck climbing lanes have nothing to do with acceleration...they exist because a truck's top speed is slower up a hill, not because trucks take longer to get to that top speed. Both are dependent on engine power, though, regardless of how that power is generated. So trucks might get to their (still slow) top speed on hills more quickly with an electric engine - doesn't mean they won't still be going slowly and be a danger to other traffic. Keep the truck lanes.
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vdeane

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2022, 10:17:59 PM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.
Unlike ICE cars, electric cars can then recapture the energy used during acceleration during braking.
That doesn't affect whether it's more efficient to accelerate slowly or to have maximum acceleration.  The energy recaptured with regenerative braking is the same regardless of whether the driver had the petal to the metal when accelerating earlier.
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Dirt Roads

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2022, 03:00:16 PM »

I'm curious how truckers will adapt to the additional acceleration.  One of the safety impacts is that the potential need for panic braking during a full acceleration application causes a not insignificant increase in braking distance as the maximum acceleration rate increases, particularly downhill.  Locomotive engineers need to be keenly aware of this when hauling "light freight", but I'm not sure how most truckers will adapt.  In my world, we highly encourage (and sometimes require) that the electric traction control systems provide a [safe means] of limiting the acceleration when rate the motors and controllers are designed to be capable or more than required for [normal use].
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2022, 03:02:35 PM »

Actual question, how are these E-trucks going to get down steep grades without the assist of a Jake Brake and traditional gear shifting? 
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kernals12

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2022, 05:49:08 PM »

Actual question, how are these E-trucks going to get down steep grades without the assist of a Jake Brake and traditional gear shifting?

Regenerative braking.
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Road Hog

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2022, 02:04:36 AM »

Electric motors apply torque instantaneously, so it's not surprising that a fully-loaded truck with an electric motor could get off to a (relatively) jackrabbit start. But on most congested highways, it's the governored trucks going 65 mph or less that are the problem.
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SectorZ

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2022, 08:17:21 AM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.
Unlike ICE cars, electric cars can then recapture the energy used during acceleration during braking.

Not all of it, unless you've invented perpetual motion.

It's like Snowpiercer, but a truck...
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2022, 10:25:55 AM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.
Unlike ICE cars, electric cars can then recapture the energy used during acceleration during braking.

Not all of it, unless you've invented perpetual motion.

It's like Snowpiercer, but a truck...

Even Snowpiercer started breaking down as the years wore on.  Thatís why Winford (in the movie) kept harvesting kids from the caboose, some Engine Eternal. 
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Dirt Roads

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2022, 03:57:25 PM »

Electric motors apply torque instantaneously, so it's not surprising that a fully-loaded truck with an electric motor could get off to a (relatively) jackrabbit start.

This wasn't true until the suppliers of traction motor controllers switched over to variable frequency inverters in the late 1990s.  Before then, the best controllers utilized diode choppers to modulate the voltage and allow tighter control of acceleration, jerk and snatch.

Actual question, how are these E-trucks going to get down steep grades without the assist of a Jake Brake and traditional gear shifting?

Regenerative braking.

Regenerative braking is also useful in preserving the life of friction braking elements such as brake shoes, discs and drums.  I still don't understand why diesel electric hybrid technology hasn't taken hold in the panel truck and service truck industry, because of the inherent cost savings related to the brake system.  This cost savings won't apply to tractor-trailers, as the trailer still needs its friction brake applications coordinated with the big rig's brakes on the cab unit.  But regenerative braking will still work quite well on big rig's, just like on railroad locomotives.
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SectorZ

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2022, 05:58:21 PM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.
Unlike ICE cars, electric cars can then recapture the energy used during acceleration during braking.

Not all of it, unless you've invented perpetual motion.

It's like Snowpiercer, but a truck...

Even Snowpiercer started breaking down as the years wore on.  Thatís why Winford (in the movie) kept harvesting kids from the caboose, some Engine Eternal.

Ha ha I've never seen the movie. The show, now four seasons in, has gotten pretty ridiculous with the inconsistencies of how it operates (and that there was a main train and a second train). They pulled a "don't dwell too much on the science" routine with it.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2022, 06:09:51 PM »

Does accelerating that quickly drain the battery more?

I would assume it does. Just like accelerating faster in a car with an ICE uses more gas.
Unlike ICE cars, electric cars can then recapture the energy used during acceleration during braking.

Not all of it, unless you've invented perpetual motion.

It's like Snowpiercer, but a truck...

Even Snowpiercer started breaking down as the years wore on.  Thatís why Winford (in the movie) kept harvesting kids from the caboose, some Engine Eternal.

Ha ha I've never seen the movie. The show, now four seasons in, has gotten pretty ridiculous with the inconsistencies of how it operates (and that there was a main train and a second train). They pulled a "don't dwell too much on the science" routine with it.

Conversely Iíve never seen the show.  In the movie there was only one train and it crashes at the end.  Presumably everyone dies even though there is indications the Earth is warming back up.  The movie variant of Snowpiercer is over the top and reminds me of an 80s Robocop-style movie in the best way possible.  Itís definitely something I would recommend giving a watch.
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JREwing78

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2022, 09:09:44 PM »

Most current medium to heavy-duty truck EV applications employ governors to roughly mimic current diesel truck performance. It's generally a bad idea to have things like school buses and box trucks laying rubber from stoplights or power-on drifting around corners.

The last thing truck manufacturers want to see is their expensive new products suffering breakdowns and becoming roadway menaces at the hands of maniac drivers. They also have to keep the battery packs alive for at least 250,000+ miles.

While hooning Tesla semi trucks makes for great video, you'll never see that on a public roadway.
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kernals12

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Re: What will happen when trucks get fast?
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2022, 01:24:07 PM »

Electric motors apply torque instantaneously, so it's not surprising that a fully-loaded truck with an electric motor could get off to a (relatively) jackrabbit start.

This wasn't true until the suppliers of traction motor controllers switched over to variable frequency inverters in the late 1990s.  Before then, the best controllers utilized diode choppers to modulate the voltage and allow tighter control of acceleration, jerk and snatch.

Actual question, how are these E-trucks going to get down steep grades without the assist of a Jake Brake and traditional gear shifting?

Regenerative braking.

Regenerative braking is also useful in preserving the life of friction braking elements such as brake shoes, discs and drums.  I still don't understand why diesel electric hybrid technology hasn't taken hold in the panel truck and service truck industry, because of the inherent cost savings related to the brake system.  This cost savings won't apply to tractor-trailers, as the trailer still needs its friction brake applications coordinated with the big rig's brakes on the cab unit.  But regenerative braking will still work quite well on big rig's, just like on railroad locomotives.

That's another thing: regenerative braking could eliminate the need for runaway truck lanes... and prevent a great number of gruesome accidents.
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