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Author Topic: I-49 Coming to Missouri  (Read 275836 times)

mvak36

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #825 on: August 15, 2018, 09:52:09 AM »

« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 10:00:46 AM by mvak36 »
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Gordon

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #826 on: October 27, 2018, 10:24:32 PM »

Missouri has added on Oct.26th for Nov. bids 11/16/18 of Demolition of structures, job #J7P3376 on Future I49 near US 90 hwy. Hopefully this will help for the request to award NWA Transportation planning commission the Federal Highway Build grant for Missouri to finish their part of I49.
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #827 on: October 27, 2018, 11:15:30 PM »

Missouri has added on Oct.26th for Nov. bids 11/16/18 of Demolition of structures, job #J7P3376 on Future I49 near US 90 hwy. Hopefully this will help for the request to award NWA Transportation planning commission the Federal Highway Build grant for Missouri to finish their part of I49.

I think you mean MO 90?
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Gordon

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #828 on: October 28, 2018, 10:30:08 AM »

yes MO 90 my error, where the interchange is going to be. 4 mobile homes and 1 home and all improvements associated with them.
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mvak36

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #829 on: October 28, 2018, 10:37:53 AM »

Missouri has added on Oct.26th for Nov. bids 11/16/18 of Demolition of structures, job #J7P3376 on Future I49 near US 90 hwy. Hopefully this will help for the request to award NWA Transportation planning commission the Federal Highway Build grant for Missouri to finish their part of I49.

That's good news. It was tentatively scheduled to be let earlier this summer but it wasn't and I was beginning to wonder when they would do it. I will update the lettings thread with this.

I also noticed in the proposal that this project is supposed to be completed by May 15 of next year so that's good. Crossing my fingers for that BUILD grant in December.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 10:44:07 AM by mvak36 »
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mvak36

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #830 on: November 06, 2018, 10:56:35 PM »

It's not looking good so far for the gas tax increase in Missouri. Looks like that Bella Vista Bypass will have to wait unless they get a federal grant. :banghead:
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Great Lakes Roads

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #831 on: November 06, 2018, 11:03:44 PM »

It's not looking good so far for the gas tax increase in Missouri. Looks like that Bella Vista Bypass will have to wait unless they get a federal grant. :banghead:

Grrr… thought that Missouri would increase the gas tax by now!!
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UAN51

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #832 on: November 07, 2018, 01:46:16 AM »

It's not looking good so far for the gas tax increase in Missouri. Looks like that Bella Vista Bypass will have to wait unless they get a federal grant. :banghead:

Grrr… thought that Missouri would increase the gas tax by now!!

The numbers are almost close but not close enough.
46.3% voted YES
53.7% voted NO
This is 97% precincts reported.
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MikieTimT

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #833 on: November 07, 2018, 08:50:27 AM »

It was likely doomed by adding the highway patrol funding and Olympic medalist deductions and other such things that cloud the main purpose of the funding.  If they'd just make a slightly smaller tax, dedicated solely to surface transportation and bridges, then folks likely wouldn't distrust taxation so much.  In 2012, Arkansas voted themselves a 10 year bond issue paid for by a 0.5 cent temporary tax where the proceeds were to be used solely for roads, widening roads that sorely needed it and repairing local, county, and state roads and bridges.  People generally will support paying for things when they know EXACTLY where their dollars are going and having a clear termination of that tax once it has fulfilled its very clear purpose.  The problem of complicating measures by tacking on almost unrelated things to the bill is that people are used to their taxes being pooled into what are essentially slush funds that the voters have no control over, so things ultimately don't get funded like the voters intended, thus perpetuating the distrust in the stewardship of those funds.  Arkansas is now going to have to continue begging the federal govt. for grants on Missouri's behalf to get this ridiculous gap plugged in the Interstate system.
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3467

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #834 on: November 07, 2018, 08:53:49 AM »

It need never passes in MO. Those MO engineers need to go to IDOT because they will have some money to build their 3 lanes because the political balance in Illinou is bi giving more to downstate.
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edwaleni

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #835 on: November 07, 2018, 08:57:53 AM »

The Olympic deduction was the original voting item. The gas tax was tacked on later.

I will check the county vote tallies but it seems NE and NW Missouri voted overwhelmingly against it.

Since they don't have any pressing highway needs this makes sense.
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sparker

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #836 on: November 07, 2018, 01:06:07 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^
From what I understand, there's a threshold in MO in terms of percentage tax increase that can be done without a public referendum -- so there's the technical possibility that small incremental increases could occur over a period of time -- provided the state legislature and administrative officials are willing to do so.  But the tax-averse nature of these bodies in many states (with the Midwest being "ground zero" for such sentiment) would in all likelihood prove a point of resistance to such an approach.  Nevertheless, a DOT with needs and at least a measure of political savvy might be able to eke out bits & pieces of funding for projects it could effectively frame as "pressing" (i.e., I-49).  But keeping up the notion of angling for federal grant money might be an alternate -- if not historically fruitful -- path.  Doing both might over time yield results.
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3467

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #837 on: November 07, 2018, 06:36:33 PM »

Yes even totally super blue Illinous is planning to use pot and gambling to fund roads and universities.I do expect both to pass easily that's why I suggested frustrated MDot people cross the river.
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UAN51

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #838 on: November 07, 2018, 09:37:06 PM »

I mean, I can see why people would vote no. Like MikieTimT mentioned, not all of that money would go to roads as some would go to MO Hwy Patrol. Also, the state did not give out a list of goals they had in mind if Prop D were to pass. No doubt the Bella Vista bypass would be on the list, but what else? What other projects between now and 2022 need funding? A 4-lane freeway on US 50 from Sedalia to California, MO? Upgrade US 60 or US 36 to freeway which has destinations to nowhere? Strong Towns has a good article to why Missourians should vote no --> https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/10/25/why-would-a-strong-towns-advocate-oppose-a-gas-tax-increase .

I see both sides of the argument, but Jeff City just screwed up (again). Maybe (just maybe) if a list of projects were released and none of the tax money goes to MO Hwy Patrol, Prop D would have attracted more yes votes.
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txstateends

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #839 on: November 07, 2018, 11:29:32 PM »

Still ridiculous that it's apparently so difficult to come up with any $$$$ for a 10-15 mile section of road, especially one with so much economic development potential.

With the election over, what is a possible timeline (other than 'never') for the remainder of the Bypass, and where could the eventual funding come from?
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edwaleni

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #840 on: November 08, 2018, 12:34:00 AM »

Still ridiculous that it's apparently so difficult to come up with any $$$$ for a 10-15 mile section of road, especially one with so much economic development potential.

With the election over, what is a possible timeline (other than 'never') for the remainder of the Bypass, and where could the eventual funding come from?

While Missouri has no toll road capacity today, I would suggest they simply create one and toll the final 15 miles and get it over with.

When any municipalities, coalitions or interest groups start petitioning their government officials or MoDOT for new expressways for their area, simply tell them it will be tolled and will cost x amount per mile to use it. (Think of Popular Bluff I-57 here)

Be very loud about it, lots of press releases, "no more new freeways in Missouri, all future new expressways will be tolled".

2 things will occur. Those constituencies will stop asking for a road and energy will shift to supporting a gas tax.



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Anthony_JK

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #841 on: November 08, 2018, 01:57:33 AM »

I mean, I can see why people would vote no. Like MikieTimT mentioned, not all of that money would go to roads as some would go to MO Hwy Patrol. Also, the state did not give out a list of goals they had in mind if Prop D were to pass. No doubt the Bella Vista bypass would be on the list, but what else? What other projects between now and 2022 need funding? A 4-lane freeway on US 50 from Sedalia to California, MO? Upgrade US 60 or US 36 to freeway which has destinations to nowhere? Strong Towns has a good article to why Missourians should vote no --> https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/10/25/why-would-a-strong-towns-advocate-oppose-a-gas-tax-increase .

I see both sides of the argument, but Jeff City just screwed up (again). Maybe (just maybe) if a list of projects were released and none of the tax money goes to MO Hwy Patrol, Prop D would have attracted more yes votes.

Well, Louisiana just passed a constitutional amendment on Tuesday that protected their Transportation Trust Fund from being raided by the Louisiana State Police. Maybe Missouri should just follow suit and protect theirs before asking for new taxes? Also, specify which projects would benefit from the increase.
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UAN51

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #842 on: November 08, 2018, 02:56:43 AM »

I mean, I can see why people would vote no. Like MikieTimT mentioned, not all of that money would go to roads as some would go to MO Hwy Patrol. Also, the state did not give out a list of goals they had in mind if Prop D were to pass. No doubt the Bella Vista bypass would be on the list, but what else? What other projects between now and 2022 need funding? A 4-lane freeway on US 50 from Sedalia to California, MO? Upgrade US 60 or US 36 to freeway which has destinations to nowhere? Strong Towns has a good article to why Missourians should vote no --> https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/10/25/why-would-a-strong-towns-advocate-oppose-a-gas-tax-increase .

I see both sides of the argument, but Jeff City just screwed up (again). Maybe (just maybe) if a list of projects were released and none of the tax money goes to MO Hwy Patrol, Prop D would have attracted more yes votes.

Well, Louisiana just passed a constitutional amendment on Tuesday that protected their Transportation Trust Fund from being raided by the Louisiana State Police. Maybe Missouri should just follow suit and protect theirs before asking for new taxes? Also, specify which projects would benefit from the increase.

I would not be opposed to that.

As for a list of specific projects, MoDOT never officially released any projects they had in mind from the failed gas tax increase. I'm assuming Bella Vista bypass is a priority as well as upgrading US 50 from Sedalia to California, MO to 4 lanes; adding a Hannibal, MO bypass (US 61); rebuilding I 44; and rebuilding I 70. We'll never know for sure.
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sparker

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #843 on: November 08, 2018, 04:19:49 AM »

^^^^^^^^^
Without knowing the specifics of intrastate MO political influences and power-wielding, I'll venture a guess that the state police -- particularly in regards to their accompanying union -- carry outsize influence in Jeff City circles, especially in the matter of fund distribution (police unions certainly do out here in CA).  If that is indeed the case, a state government drawn from a tax-averse base will in all likelihood elect to conflate road conditions and over-the-road enforcement; under such a system there's simply not enough funds to take care of business on multiple fronts.  Thus, the ongoing "squeaky wheel" -- the amply represented folks in trooper uniforms -- will continue to lay first claim to any $$ apportioned to general transportation needs -- and will vigorously oppose any alteration of the status quo -- such as a LA-style separation of infrastructure expenditures from those of law enforcement.  Until a more realistic taxation system or base is instituted, this situation isn't likely to budge. 
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mvak36

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #844 on: November 08, 2018, 01:28:03 PM »

I did ask MODOT earlier this summer if they would have a list of projects that they would do if the gas tax passed. They said that they didn't. I wonder if they had a list it would have helped out in the rural areas.
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sparker

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #845 on: November 08, 2018, 05:16:40 PM »

I did ask MODOT earlier this summer if they would have a list of projects that they would do if the gas tax passed. They said that they didn't. I wonder if they had a list it would have helped out in the rural areas.

Some sort of "laundry list(s)", possibly tailored for the region affected, might have helped -- but from most accounts it sounds like the tie-in with the state police may have caused folks, particularly in rural areas, to reject the measure.  If 2 years from now another attempt is made, it would probably have to have an attached codicil directing at least 2/3 of the funds directly to road repair and/or construction -- with some longstanding but delayed projects (I-49, the AOS Hannibal bypass, and possibly some upgrades along the US 60 portion of the I-57 extension corridor) cited front & center.  Clearly more of the same isn't going to cut it for the next go-around!
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3467

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #846 on: November 09, 2018, 05:15:48 PM »

MO did do a list last time it failed. 36/110 & 61/27 were on the list and it only passed in the northeast counties. It didn't but MO DOT found a way to reward them . They are done. I wonder where it passed btw IL has a similar amendment to LA. But its not enough. CA voted to keep their gas tax.MO is never going to pass IDiOT needs new blood I wish some of the MO people would cross the river.
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sparker

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #847 on: November 09, 2018, 05:30:15 PM »

MO did do a list last time it failed. 36/110 & 61/27 were on the list and it only passed in the northeast counties. It didn't but MO DOT found a way to reward them . They are done. I wonder where it passed btw IL has a similar amendment to LA. But its not enough. CA voted to keep their gas tax.MO is never going to pass IDiOT needs new blood I wish some of the MO people would cross the river.

If one considers the cookie-cutter upper-Midwest freeway/expressway configuration as likely the best that MO, given their fiscal straits, will be able to cobble up in the NE part of the state -- and apply that standard to US 36 and US 61 -- the only item left on the "to-do" list would be a N-S Hannibal bypass.  And that is a project that has been pushed back several times already -- I don't even think there's been a definitive alignment selected as of yet.

But getting back to the thread topic -- continuing to pursue the grant route is probably the only thing that's going to get the MO portion of the I-49 "Bella Vista" bypass built in the near term.  If I were MODOT, I'd ask ARDOT to support their next grant request -- and possibly ask the Wal-Mart executive board for their input.   I'd be lobbying for this nonstop until positive results were achieved.     
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Revive 755

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #848 on: November 09, 2018, 11:02:14 PM »

If one considers the cookie-cutter upper-Midwest freeway/expressway configuration as likely the best that MO, given their fiscal straits, will be able to cobble up in the NE part of the state -- and apply that standard to US 36 and US 61 -- the only item left on the "to-do" list would be a N-S Hannibal bypass.  And that is a project that has been pushed back several times already -- I don't even think there's been a definitive alignment selected as of yet.

There was one for a while.  I recall MoDOT originally planning the bypass as a full freeway, then cutting it back to an expressway.  I don't recall the exact southern terminus, but I do recall as part of the cutback from freeway to expressway it moved northward (from around the US 61/Route M intersection to around the US 61/Route HH intersection).  The bypass would have cut over to the US 36/US 24 interchange, then used a widened US 24 to reconnect to US 61.

Google has a dated Final EIS online for the bypass as well.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 11:04:19 PM by Revive 755 »
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J N Winkler

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #849 on: November 09, 2018, 11:38:53 PM »

MO did do a list last time it failed.

Yes, I remember that as well.  I think part of the reason Proposition D failed is that, as written on the ballot, it looked like a doubling of the Highway Patrol's budget, with no release of any of its current funding for state highway improvements.  In fact, that was how I interpreted the ballot language until I found a story reporting otherwise.  The part of the increase that was earmarked specifically for roads (one-third of the total) was for city streets only.
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