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Author Topic: I-69 Ohio River Bridge  (Read 245340 times)

froggie

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #800 on: July 29, 2017, 06:47:21 PM »

What is not stated in the narrative to this point are some problems with West Option 1 and 2.  Both of these options call for removal of the the current twin bridges, which would save future maintenance cost, but in doing so would complicate matters:
1.  By removing the current bridges for a replacement bridge you again limit the Evansville/Henderson area to on crossing, and that could cause problems when accidents occur, maintenance, etc.
2.  When I-69 is completed to Indianapolis (we even may see this somewhat when the road is completed to Martinsville), traffic will increase on the north/south corridor here, and the bridge should be wide enough for three lanes in each direction, but that is not what they are planning.  This would be especially important if the other bridges are removed.
3.  Even if only one bridge is kept of the current (in the case of the central corridor), you do have a free option to cross the river for current residents.  I would think Henderson area residence would be especially angry since if they work in Evansville, they would have to budget $1000 or more a year for the round trip just to go to work (based on $2.00 or so each way).


Replying a week late, but regarding your #2, both of the West Corridor alignments do have 3 lanes in each direction on the river bridge.
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Life in Paradise

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #801 on: July 30, 2017, 04:17:20 PM »

I saw that description of the west bridges a couple of days after I made the post.  Getting rid of both of the existing bridges will rid the area of a free crossing (other than Owensboro-30 miles or Shawneetown-50 miles) and no emergency crossing if the new bridges have a major incident.
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vdeane

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #802 on: July 30, 2017, 05:33:24 PM »

I don't recall seeing anything saying that they had made the decision to toll the I-69 bridge, only that they were considering the option.  Has something changed?
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Captain Jack

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #803 on: July 30, 2017, 11:05:07 PM »

i actually don't think any ohio river bridge is in indiana, the state line is the shore of the ohio river, dating back to the nw territory.  it zig-zags a lot so it's not perfect, but most of the approaches are in indiana on the northern side, none of the 41 bridges are though. 
I'd consider the elevated parts of the approaches to be part of the bridge, so most of them actually do have part of the bridge over Indiana.

The state line is the low-water mark on the north side of the Ohio River as it existed in 1792, when Kentucky became a state. Kentucky and Indiana do have maintenance agreements on the bridges -- Kentucky maintains some and Indiana maintains others. But the US 41 bridges are entirely in Kentucky because the course of the river changed significantly. I don't know when that occurred, but the fact remains that you don't cross the state line when you cross one of those bridges.

it must have change a lot since then, there's a road in evansville called riverside drive (not the piece that actually is near the shore) that is no where near the ohio.

Riverside Drive runs along the river through the downtown area. It never ran along the river after that. Riverside Drive is where it is going SE from downtown because most of the land south of it to the river is in the flood plain. Supposedly the 1792 mark runs just south and parallel to Waterworks Road.
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Life in Paradise

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #804 on: July 31, 2017, 09:03:18 AM »

I don't recall seeing anything saying that they had made the decision to toll the I-69 bridge, only that they were considering the option.  Has something changed?

Almost all discussions locally involve tolling, since it is thought that a revenue stream will be needed to pay for the bridge rather than drain both state's general road funds.
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sparker

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #805 on: July 31, 2017, 02:18:49 PM »

I don't recall seeing anything saying that they had made the decision to toll the I-69 bridge, only that they were considering the option.  Has something changed?

Almost all discussions locally involve tolling, since it is thought that a revenue stream will be needed to pay for the bridge rather than drain both state's general road funds.

That raises the question:  if the new-bridge option selected involves eliminating the US 41 bridges -- and tolls were part of the package -- how would local usage, which heretofore has been free -- be addressed?  My guess would be that local residents would either be given cards or devices which allowed free passage -- or at least a steeply discounted rate!  Of course, if the central option is chosen -- which would leave at least one of the existing bridges intact -- the point would be moot -- although that also provides a known-quantity routing for shunpiking.  If that situation were to come about, I'd venture that the signals through Henderson would be reset to what is termed "traffic calming" (although the "calm" syllable is often colloquially replaced with another 4-letter word by drivers!) to render through passage highly inefficient.  It'll be interesting to see how all these factors play out in the bridge alignment decision.
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thefro

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #806 on: August 11, 2017, 10:55:56 AM »

http://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/central-corridor-is-top-choice-in-i-69-ohio-river-crossing/786692348

In shocking news, Bridgelink recommended to the I-69 Bridges project manager that they pick the central corridor (new bridge) plan that they originally came up with.
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silverback1065

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #807 on: August 11, 2017, 11:04:04 AM »

central 1 benefits henderson the most, i bet that's the one they pick.
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sparker

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #808 on: August 11, 2017, 04:48:07 PM »

http://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/central-corridor-is-top-choice-in-i-69-ohio-river-crossing/786692348

In shocking news, Bridgelink recommended to the I-69 Bridges project manager that they pick the central corridor (new bridge) plan that they originally came up with.
central 1 benefits henderson the most, i bet that's the one they pick.

It's likely that the option that would be favored on both sides of the river would be the one that results in two individual crossings -- the new I-69 bridge and the existing US 41 structure -- even if only one of the original twin bridges is retained.  That would provide for some degree of separation of local and through traffic as well as redundancy in case of congestion or incidents impairing either crossing. 
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vdeane

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #809 on: August 11, 2017, 06:11:00 PM »

The article says the central option "will cut down on the number of miles of new terrain needed", but don't the west corridors have fewer new terrain miles?  The east options and central 2 were already eliminated from consideration.

The central option is certainly less disruptive to Henderson, though, and no doubt has less expensive ROW despite having more mileage.

Hopefully Kentucky can put US 41 back where it belongs.  That US 41/KY 425/KY 2084 change is awkward as hell.
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lordsutch

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #810 on: August 11, 2017, 07:56:04 PM »

The article says the central option "will cut down on the number of miles of new terrain needed", but don't the west corridors have fewer new terrain miles?  The east options and central 2 were already eliminated from consideration.

The reporter probably paraphrased the press release wrong. It says Central Corridor 1 is "the shortest corridor, resulting in the least amount of new roadway. It has considerable impacts to farmland, wetlands and forested habitat, but would impact the fewest residences and no businesses."
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vdeane

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #811 on: August 12, 2017, 01:10:19 PM »

I guess I don't see how Central 1 can be "the least amount of new roadway" of the three remaining corridors.  It's 8.5 miles from where it diverges from US 41 to exit 3 in Indiana, of which 8 miles are new terrain construction and 0.5 miles are former I-164.  The west corridors are 9.9 miles between these points, but include 1.4 miles of existing US 41 to Henderson, 2.9 miles of existing US 41 across the Ohio River (albeit likely with replacing the bridges), and 2.3 miles of former I-164, 6.6 miles of existing roadway in total, and so only have 3.3 miles of new terrain construction.  Even if you exclude the part of US 41 near the Ohio River (which will need upgrading), it's only 6.2 miles of construction.
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sparker

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #812 on: August 12, 2017, 03:21:04 PM »

I guess I don't see how Central 1 can be "the least amount of new roadway" of the three remaining corridors.  It's 8.5 miles from where it diverges from US 41 to exit 3 in Indiana, of which 8 miles are new terrain construction and 0.5 miles are former I-164.  The west corridors are 9.9 miles between these points, but include 1.4 miles of existing US 41 to Henderson, 2.9 miles of existing US 41 across the Ohio River (albeit likely with replacing the bridges), and 2.3 miles of former I-164, 6.6 miles of existing roadway in total, and so only have 3.3 miles of new terrain construction.  Even if you exclude the part of US 41 near the Ohio River (which will need upgrading), it's only 6.2 miles of construction.

Re the "least amount of roadway":  They're either counting the frontage/slip roads that would be part of any in-town alignment next to the existing US 41, or they're simply engaging in wishful hyperbole!  In any case, it's clear that the regional consensus points toward Central 1; the other options are probably there to placate those who would prefer only a single crossing remain after the dust settles -- letting them know that their preferences are still in the mix. 
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Grzrd

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #813 on: September 28, 2017, 02:30:07 PM »

central 1 benefits henderson the most, i bet that's the one they pick.

This article reports that Henderson city officials are indeed supporting Central 1:

Quote
Henderson City Commissioners and Mayor Steve Austin officially threw their support behind one of the three Interstate 69 Ohio River crossing routes currently being considered for Henderson.
After several landowners spoke up in favor of a route further east in the county, Central Corridor No. 2, which is no longer being considered by state and federal officials, the panel of commissioners and Austin voted unanimously on a resolution of support for Central Corridor 1 .....
"It's the least expensive, causes the least disruption in our community and third, it offers a redundancy of crossing the Ohio River … the other two routes would leave only one crossing," Austin said. "Sometimes we have to make the best of the choices available to us."
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thefro

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #814 on: December 19, 2017, 09:44:44 AM »

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/plans-i69-ohio-river-crossing-set-revealed-february-134512/

Quote from: Indiana Public Media
A group working on an environmental impact statement for an I-69 bridge connecting Evansville and western Kentucky says it’s making progress.

Mindy Peterson of I-69 Ohio River Crossing – or ORX – says the group has gathered a tremendous amount of information and expects to deliver more during open houses in early February.

Dan Prevost is the environmental lead for ORX. He said a navigation analysis has been performed and passed on to the Coast Guard.

“And preliminary they’ve said that actually either a single navigation span or a two navigation span arrangement could work,” Prevost says.

In July, the group narrowed the number of potential bridge corridors to three, with a central corridor just east of the existing U.S. 41 Twin Bridges favored among elected officials.

Prevost would not say which of the three corridors presents the fewest environmental issues.

“They each have their own set of challenges. They all have different challenges or potential impacts depending on the resources you’re talking about,” Prevost says.

Prevost also said tolling is not a foregone conclusion on a new bridge or on the Twin Bridges, if they remain.

The Draft Environmental Impact Statement is due next fall. A final statement and decision is expected in fall 2019.
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silverback1065

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #815 on: January 31, 2018, 06:19:12 PM »

From INDOT:

NOTICE OF PUBLIC OPEN HOUSES
Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) and Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC)
public open houses to present refined alternatives for the I-69 Ohio River Crossing (I-69 ORX) project
The I-69 ORX Project Team will hold two open houses to inform and solicit feedback from residents and motorists about the refined alternatives being evaluated in the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for a modern Ohio River crossing between Henderson, KY, and Evansville, IN.
The first open house will be held from 4:30 to 7:30 p.m. Central time on Tuesday, February 6, 2018, at Henderson Community College, Preston Arts Center, 2660 S. Green St., Henderson, KY. Doors will open at 4:30 p.m.
A second open house will be held from 4:30 to 7:30 p.m. Central time on Wednesday, February 7, 2018, at Benjamin Bosse High School, 1300 Washington Ave., Evansville, IN. Doors will open at 4:30 p.m.
Each open house will include two brief presentations from the Project Team at 5 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. The team will be on hand to address questions and comments before and after the presentations. 
Copies of open house materials will be available online by Tuesday, February 6, at www.I69ohiorivercrossing.com and at the project offices located at (Indiana office) 320 Eagle Crest Drive, Suite C, Evansville, IN 47715, and (Kentucky office) 1970 Barrett Court, Suite 100, Henderson, KY 42420. The Evansville office is open Monday, Tuesday and Thursday; the Henderson office is open Wednesday and Friday. Standard office hours are 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. CT or by appointment.
Following the meeting, written comments may be sent to the aforementioned addresses or to info@I69OhioRiverCrossing.com.
In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), persons with disabilities or representing an ADA and/or Limited English Proficiency (LEP) population are encouraged to contact the I-69 ORX project team at 888-515-9756 in advance with regard to coordinating services such as participation at the meeting venue, language, visual and audio interpretation services.
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thefro

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #816 on: February 01, 2018, 09:31:53 AM »

http://www.courierpress.com/story/news/2018/01/31/details-emerge-possible-69-routes/1084969001/
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4364026-I-69-ORX-Preliminary-Alternatives-Map.html#document/p1
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4364025-I-69-ORX-Preliminary-Alternatives-Handout.html#document/p1

Quote from:
More details are available about the three remaining routes under consideration for a new Interstate 69 Ohio River bridge.

In each scenario, travelers to and from Evansville and Henderson will have six lanes of traffic, with at least four of those on I-69. The two west alternatives generally follow the path of U.S. 41, while the central alternative is further east..

Quote
The three remaining routes, and some of the new information available:

West Alternative 1 would bring a new four-lane I-69 bridge and two-way traffic would remain on one U.S. 41 bridge. It also includes a reconstructed U.S. 60 interchange and new interchanges at Watson Lane and U.S. 41/Veterans Memorial Parkway.

It would keep traffic on U.S. 41 corridor and maintain businesses in the area. The Eagle Slough recreation area is avoided. The estimated cost is $1.47 billion and includes maintenance costs for both the new and old bridges.

West Alternative 2 would bring a new six-lane I-69 bridge, and both U.S. 41 bridges would go out of service. It also includes a reconstructed U.S. 60 interchange and new interchanges at Watson Lane, Wolf Hills/Stratman Road, Nugent Drive and U.S. 41/Veterans Memorial Parkway.

It would keep traffic on the U.S. 41 corridor, but businesses along the west side of U.S. 41 are impacted. Eagle Slough is avoided. The estimated cost is $1.49 billion and includes new bridge maintenance.

Central Alternative 1, the popular choice among local elected officials in Evansville and Henderson, would bring a new four-lane I-69 bridge east of Ellis Park. One U.S. 41 bridge would remain in use with two-way traffic.

The alignment has been shifted to avoid a wetland mitigation site and historic properties at U.S. 60, officials said. The estimated cost is $1.42 billion and includes maintenance of the new and old bridges.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 09:39:14 AM by thefro »
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silverback1065

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #817 on: February 01, 2018, 10:19:18 AM »

i like the one the locals like, central
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hbelkins

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #818 on: February 01, 2018, 11:22:21 AM »

I like Central 1, as it impacts fewer residences, but I don't like the idea of only keeping one US 41 bridge. I think both of those bridges should be maintained until such time that it becomes cost-prohibitive to maintain the older of the two structures.
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Avalanchez71

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #819 on: February 01, 2018, 01:35:39 PM »

The Breezewood option preserves the business district of Henderson KY and should be something that the chamber should be supporting.
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RoadWarrior56

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #820 on: February 01, 2018, 02:04:49 PM »

I grew up in Evansville and have driven that 2.5 - 3  mile section of US 41 in Henderson for decades.  I only quit driving it less than 3 years ago when my dad moved from Evansville to a retirement community in the Louisville area.  US 41 is a nightmare of intense commercial strip development, with much of it being blighted or borderline blighted, and an uncontrolled number of driveways several traffic lights and numerous crashes, as well as a bad northbound left-turn lane drop on a curve immediately north of the US 60 intersection.  I have had near-misses myself on that section of roadway through the years. 

You can't compare it with "Breezewood", which is only 1500 feet long and has a relative handful of businesses compared to US 41 in Henderson.  The problems with that strip on US 41 probably hurts business in Henderson more than it helps it in the long run.   They need to bypass that strip for through traffic.  It is too far gone to try to fix it.
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sparker

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #821 on: February 01, 2018, 04:16:58 PM »

The Breezewood option preserves the business district of Henderson KY and should be something that the chamber should be supporting.

I didn't realize there was a Breezewood option!  From the documents cited, there will be a freeway facility somewhere connecting the Indiana freeway segment to the Pennyrile section of I-69.  Period.  Breezewood is a situation that simply isn't transportable to other circumstances (at least outside of PA!) -- regardless of how some folks just won't be disabused of the concept.   
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lordsutch

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #822 on: February 01, 2018, 05:38:52 PM »

I think most towns, Henderson included, are trying to get out of the situation of their public face being stoplight-infested commercial strips with fast-food restaurants, downmarket motels, and gas stations on the "main drag" in favor of reviving walkable downtown business districts.

Also, the original Breezewood is less than 1000 linear feet of roadway, so it's somewhat harder to justify large-scale construction to bypass it—westbound a surface-level 25 mph loop ramp tying into the tollbooth spur to US 30 would be sufficient and even a high-speed ORT loop to the Turnpike mainline probably could be built at relatively low cost, but I-70's mainline seems to have been designed deliberately to ensure it would require substantial reconstruction to put in place any direct ramp from either the Turnpike proper or the tollbooth spur eastbound. Henderson's commercial strip is much longer and a substantially more burdensome passage for through traffic (and has a lot more intermingled local use, since Henderson isn't just a sleepy village in the middle of nowhere like Breezewood).
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hbelkins

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #823 on: February 01, 2018, 09:00:58 PM »

I haven't been off US 41 in Henderson for years, but isn't most of the newer commercial development somewhere else?

And US 41 is a long way from downtown.
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tdindy88

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Re: I-69 Ohio River Bridge
« Reply #824 on: February 01, 2018, 09:08:33 PM »

There's a little commercial development along US 60 just east of the US 41 interchange on the north side of Henderson. Personally I don't see how anything other than the Central alternative is realistically feasible, I think the two western alternatives left are just window dressing at this point.
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