The universe according to MMM

[vdeane]

Why should someone get an advantage in life just because they won the birth lottery and had rich parents?

And honestly, MMM being born with a silver spoon in his mouth explains a LOT.  He's never lived in the real world.  Ever.  No wonder all his ideas are fantastical.  He is Example A for why we need a national service requirement... perhaps a year in a small town and a year in a big city doing community service.  Could help bring people in this country together to understand each other.

[MultiMillionMiler]

I think it says a lot about MMM that my household doesn't even exist according to his chart.

More like he thinks you're not entitled to have kids.

You aren't. I have never felt reproduction was a fundamental human right. Consensual and Safe sexual pleasure? Sure, but just creating new life cause you feel like it? Nah. And for the same reason, I think children should have a say in whether their parents have further kids or not, as that will obviously affect their lifestyle as well. The same reason genetically related people don't have a right to have kids (cause of the potential birth defects they'd be imposing) what's the difference with extreme poverty, or other bad life circumstances (not trying to offend anyone, am saying for the offspring sake only)

[MultiMillionMiler]

Why should someone get an advantage in life just because they won the birth lottery and had rich parents?

And honestly, MMM being born with a silver spoon in his mouth explains a LOT.  He's never lived in the real world.  Ever.  No wonder all his ideas are fantastical.  He is Example A for why we need a national service requirement... perhaps a year in a small town and a year in a big city doing community service.  Could help bring people in this country together to understand each other.

Why should one be deprived of a potential advantage just because others think it is unfair. This "I suffered so you should too" is the most irrational mindset I have seen in this country. Do we say that about powerball jackpot winners? And compulsory service requirements? Talk about fascist work ethic LOL. If I worked hard my whole life and had kids, I would want to spare them from that, not put them through the same thing. I'd be happy that they were luckier than me. And who says all rich people don't want to work? I recently read something that someone who won a secondary lottery prize which was still several million, still intended to finish med school and become a doctor, so wanting a stable bank account doesn't make one "spoiled".

[kkt]

Nah, sex is more harmful than driving.

Proof? That doesn't seem true.

Citation definitely needed.

[Scott5114]

I think it says a lot about MMM that my household doesn't even exist according to his chart.

More like he thinks you're not entitled to have kids.

You aren't. I have never felt reproduction was a fundamental human right. Consensual and Safe sexual pleasure? Sure, but just creating new life cause you feel like it? Nah. And for the same reason, I think children should have a say in whether their parents have further kids or not, as that will obviously affect their lifestyle as well. The same reason genetically related people don't have a right to have kids (cause of the potential birth defects they'd be imposing) what's the difference with extreme poverty, or other bad life circumstances (not trying to offend anyone, am saying for the offspring sake only)

You're like a hop, skip, and a jump away from eugenics with this, you know.

[MultiMillionMiler]

Eugenics is deliberately desining babies the way you want. I think that's ridiculous. I'm saying the number of babies coming out should be lower, period, certainly not that rich people should be able to choose the gender or hair/eye color of their offspring. Deleting harmful mental illness/physical illness generating genes, sure, but that's it. Nothing beyond that.

[Scott5114]

I mean, if you say there should be an minimum income level to be able to have kids, that's saying that rich people's genes deserve to be perpetuated and poor people's don't. Which certainly appears to be a form of eugenics to me.

[kkt]

I dunno about New York State, but in Washington there are rules about both the hours and times of day persons under 18 are allowed to work, while they are in school.  At the time it was my job as a lead to enforce it, in those unusual situations in which we hired an undergraduate under 18 to work in the library.  I think it was something like no more 10 hours a week and not later than 7 PM Monday through Thursday.  (Reasonable for high school, less reasonable for a college where some students had no classes or classes that started late on some days or did have classes on Saturdays.)

[Max Rockatansky]

I think it says a lot about MMM that my household doesn't even exist according to his chart.

Our household is roughly the same range my Dad was in by himself during the mid-1990s.  Factoring inflation that really kills me sometimes that he was making that kind of money.  He certainly never ended up saving much of it, or didn't know how to invest in the slightest. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Eugenics is deliberately desining babies the way you want. I think that's ridiculous. I'm saying the number of babies coming out should be lower, period, certainly not that rich people should be able to choose the gender or hair/eye color of their offspring. Deleting harmful mental illness/physical illness generating genes, sure, but that's it. Nothing beyond that.

Eugenics after Nazism should be one of those things discarded to the dustbin of history.  Really it should have been discarded long before Nazism was even a thing.

[MultiMillionMiler]

I mean, if you say there should be an minimum income level to be able to have kids, that's saying that rich people's genes deserve to be perpetuated and poor people's don't. Which certainly appears to be a form of eugenics to me.

Not saying it should be illegal for people under X Y Z circumstances to have kids, just that it's not a fundamental human right. Foster kids on the other hand, have a right to get adopted, which is much more sensible than reproduction anyway.

[Scott5114]

Not saying it should be illegal for people under X Y Z circumstances to have kids, just that it's not a fundamental human right.

The United Nations disagrees with you.

Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

[Max Rockatansky]

You know what's funny, the US is now the only country in the UN to not ratify the Child Rights Convention. So it's absurdly disturbing that the thing you have such a fundamental right to make, doesn't end up even having as many fundamental rights. Sickening.

And how is promoting facets of Eugenics not disturbing? 

[MultiMillionMiler]

You know what's funny, the US is now the only country in the UN to not ratify the Child Rights Convention. So it's absurdly disturbing that the thing you have such a fundamental right to make, doesn't end up even having as many fundamental rights. Sickening.

Address this first. Even facets of Eugenics (which I don't support) are not as hypocritical as having the right to make a human that doesn't even end up having the same rights (in the US at least).

[Max Rockatansky]

You know what's funny, the US is now the only country in the UN to not ratify the Child Rights Convention. So it's absurdly disturbing that the thing you have such a fundamental right to make, doesn't end up even having as many fundamental rights. Sickening.

Address this first. Even facets of Eugenics (which I don't support) are not as hypocritical as having the right to make a human that doesn't even end up having the same rights (in the US at least).

Eugenics had it's day and it led to things like Nazism.  Seems straightforward to me that it isn't worth revisiting.  It was a deeply flawed belief system that was inevitably going to lead to atrocities.

[Scott5114]

You know what's funny, the US is now the only country in the UN to not ratify the Child Rights Convention. So it's absurdly disturbing that the thing you have such a fundamental right to make, doesn't end up even having as many fundamental rights. Sickening.

Address this first.

760 UNITED NATIONS PLZ
NEW YORK NY 10017-6818

[MultiMillionMiler]

The atrocity is that we are the only developed country that can't agree to having a basic, universal bill of rights for kids (like the UNCRC), yet aggressively profess our "right" to create as many of them as we want. Reproduction is not needed to personally survive.

[MultiMillionMiler]

For example, courts worry more about the 2 minutes of pain a serial killer might feel being executed, but yet corporal punishment of kids is legal of half the states. Just this lack of children's rights alone is a direct argument against the "right" to reproduce, even without considering the fact that you don't absolutely "need" to have kids.

[Max Rockatansky]

And how is any of what you describe making Eugenics okay by proxy?

[MultiMillionMiler]

I've said about 5 times by now it doesn't, but it's laughable how people can claim that someone saying "hey you shouldn't really have 5 kids you can't afford" is infringing on their rights, when the persons you intend to create wont even have all of the universal rights for 18 years. I feel the same way about organ donation, it should be universal, or at least opt-out instead of opt in (I registered a year ago), the rights of people who do exist trump the rights of people who no longer, or do not yet, exist.

[Max Rockatansky]

Eugenics is deliberately desining babies the way you want. I think that's ridiculous. I'm saying the number of babies coming out should be lower, period, certainly not that rich people should be able to choose the gender or hair/eye color of their offspring. Deleting harmful mental illness/physical illness generating genes, sure, but that's it. Nothing beyond that.

You're the one promoting this. 

[MultiMillionMiler]

 If there was a scientific way to remove a gene that would prevent your baby from being paralyzed, an amputee, or have a degenerative neurological condition that would kill the child by age 5, who the hell wouldn't opt for that? The "Eugenics war" or how its portrayed in science fiction anyway, is about crap like optimizing the IQ of the population or weeding out people without certain skills/strength..etc. What I stated is basic medical care, and I don't care how closely those words resemble anything else you imagine. If one has a brain one can disguinguish the two. People can find a million ways to associate anything with Fascism or Nazi-Germany, that is a fallacy and doesn't make it not a valid point.

[Max Rockatansky]

Whatevs, you're the one promoting beliefs which would align with Nazism.  If that sits well with you, that's on you.  Real life isn't Star Trek, shame you seem incapable of recognizing that.

[Scott5114]

Can we maybe cool it and focus on something more mundane before I have to start deleting posts or issuing warnings or whatever?

[Scott5114]

I had a feeling it would come to that, so totally fine with me.

MMM, you're probably one outbreak away from being banned. I'm not a mod so I wouldn't know for sure but I would guess so.

You're not a mod, so it's not your place to say any of that.