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Las Vegas 'temporary' bridge(s) for F1 race

Started by rickmastfan67, November 14, 2023, 09:00:02 PM

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rickmastfan67

Found this interesting.  They built temporary bridges for normal traffic over the route of the F1 race once the 'track' goes hot.

https://twitter.com/jeff_gluck/status/1724552254735495229

Definitely something you don't see everyday.

Supposedly they'll also put it in storage for the next F1 race there next year!


Big John

I read that the race didn't attract nearly enough spectators nor receive nearly enough revenue as expected.   Are they going to do this again?

Bruce

Quote from: Big John on November 14, 2023, 11:25:41 PM
I read that the race didn't attract nearly enough spectators nor receive nearly enough revenue as expected.   Are they going to do this again?

It hasn't even taken place yet.

Big John

Hmm they conveniently left that part out.  It said organizers and hotels were trying to charge exorbitant rares and needed to greatly reduce prices due to lack of demand.

US 89

I was going to say, isn't it this weekend?

Potentially a bigger issue will be the weather. The race will start at 10 pm local time so that it can be shown on morning TV in Europe, which will likely make for the coldest F1 race in history. There will also be a threat for substantial amounts of rain during the race and on the days leading up to it.

Honestly I feel like F1 is getting exactly what they asked for here. Clearly the goal was not to cater to the American fans or get more Americans into F1 with a hyped up race in Vegas. Otherwise 1) pricing would have been a bit more affordable and 2) they could have easily had the race in the early morning, which would make for afternoon viewing in Europe and morning viewing in the rest of the US (when F1 is usually on). This was obviously viewed as a rich Europeans' getaway.

A lot of Las Vegas residents are none too happy with how long the construction process and associated disruptions have dragged on for. Especially given that the race won't mean all that much to the average viewer since Max Verstappen has already clinched the season championship. Plus the drivers themselves aren't all too impressed with the track, so there probably won't be much in the way of exciting racing anyway.

formulanone

#5
The alternative is to run it in the Caesar's Palace parking lot, which they used for 1981-82, and later used for Indy cars for another two years. Effectively, Miami's GP uses a parking lot area for much of its track, although literally in the shadow of Florida's Turnpike's ramps.

On a semi-related note, the street circuit for the former Valencia GP used a swing bridge, which I think was the only track which had such a feature (no, it wasn't opened during racing events).

Rothman



Quote from: US 89 on November 15, 2023, 09:20:33 AM
I was going to say, isn't it this weekend?

Potentially a bigger issue will be the weather. The race will start at 10 pm local time so that it can be shown on morning TV in Europe, which will likely make for the coldest F1 race in history. There will also be a threat for substantial amounts of rain during the race and on the days leading up to it.

Honestly I feel like F1 is getting exactly what they asked for here. Clearly the goal was not to cater to the American fans or get more Americans into F1 with a hyped up race in Vegas. Otherwise 1) pricing would have been a bit more affordable and 2) they could have easily had the race in the early morning, which would make for afternoon viewing in Europe and morning viewing in the rest of the US (when F1 is usually on). This was obviously viewed as a rich Europeans' getaway.

A lot of Las Vegas residents are none too happy with how long the construction process and associated disruptions have dragged on for. Especially given that the race won't mean all that much to the average viewer since Max Verstappen has already clinched the season championship. Plus the drivers themselves aren't all too impressed with the track, so there probably won't be much in the way of exciting racing anyway.

Pfft.  F1 race tickets are outrageous anyway, so the cost has nothing to do with attracting American fans one way or another.  See the races that have already been taking place in Texas, for example.  Besides, the Drive to Survive effect on F1 attendance is impervious to ticket prices.

Still, I am loving the geographic ignorance of Europeans coming into play with them obviously not realizing that it gets cold at night in the desert.  Heck, I wonder if they thought they were "avoiding the heat" by holding it at night. :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

hotdogPi

Clinched

Traveled, plus 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

New:
I-189 clinched
US 7, VT 2A, 11, 15,  17, 73, 103, 116, 125, NH 123 traveled

Rothman

Quote from: 1 on November 15, 2023, 12:18:25 PM
Since when is 55 degrees cold?
Pretty sure it'll be colder at night and the rain will make it worse.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

hotdogPi

Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2023, 12:21:18 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 15, 2023, 12:18:25 PM
Since when is 55 degrees cold?
Pretty sure it'll be colder at night and the rain will make it worse.

55 is the temperature at the time of the event, not the daytime temperature.
Clinched

Traveled, plus 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

New:
I-189 clinched
US 7, VT 2A, 11, 15,  17, 73, 103, 116, 125, NH 123 traveled

Rothman

Quote from: 1 on November 15, 2023, 12:23:56 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2023, 12:21:18 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 15, 2023, 12:18:25 PM
Since when is 55 degrees cold?
Pretty sure it'll be colder at night and the rain will make it worse.

55 is the temperature at the time of the event, not the daytime temperature.
Huh.  Warmed up since I last checked.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

formulanone

#11
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2023, 12:09:46 PM


Quote from: US 89 on November 15, 2023, 09:20:33 AM
I was going to say, isn't it this weekend?

Potentially a bigger issue will be the weather. The race will start at 10 pm local time so that it can be shown on morning TV in Europe, which will likely make for the coldest F1 race in history. There will also be a threat for substantial amounts of rain during the race and on the days leading up to it.

Honestly I feel like F1 is getting exactly what they asked for here. Clearly the goal was not to cater to the American fans or get more Americans into F1 with a hyped up race in Vegas. Otherwise 1) pricing would have been a bit more affordable and 2) they could have easily had the race in the early morning, which would make for afternoon viewing in Europe and morning viewing in the rest of the US (when F1 is usually on). This was obviously viewed as a rich Europeans' getaway.

A lot of Las Vegas residents are none too happy with how long the construction process and associated disruptions have dragged on for. Especially given that the race won't mean all that much to the average viewer since Max Verstappen has already clinched the season championship. Plus the drivers themselves aren't all too impressed with the track, so there probably won't be much in the way of exciting racing anyway.

Pfft.  F1 race tickets are outrageous anyway, so the cost has nothing to do with attracting American fans one way or another.  See the races that have already been taking place in Texas, for example.  Besides, the Drive to Survive effect on F1 attendance is impervious to ticket prices.

Still, I am loving the geographic ignorance of Europeans coming into play with them obviously not realizing that it gets cold at night in the desert.  Heck, I wonder if they thought they were "avoiding the heat" by holding it at night. :D

Pretty sure they're holding at night to suit the primary fanbase which doesn't like to watch races live at oddball hours, before worrying too much about temperatures. I'm getting too old to watch the races at midnight anymore, but weird hours were part of the TV watching "experience" (not much else competing for eyes at 6am on a Sunday morning).

In any case, if low temps throw any sort of curve into the race planning and outcome, I'm all for it.

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: formulanone on November 15, 2023, 01:05:46 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 15, 2023, 12:09:46 PM


Quote from: US 89 on November 15, 2023, 09:20:33 AM
I was going to say, isn't it this weekend?

Potentially a bigger issue will be the weather. The race will start at 10 pm local time so that it can be shown on morning TV in Europe, which will likely make for the coldest F1 race in history. There will also be a threat for substantial amounts of rain during the race and on the days leading up to it.

Honestly I feel like F1 is getting exactly what they asked for here. Clearly the goal was not to cater to the American fans or get more Americans into F1 with a hyped up race in Vegas. Otherwise 1) pricing would have been a bit more affordable and 2) they could have easily had the race in the early morning, which would make for afternoon viewing in Europe and morning viewing in the rest of the US (when F1 is usually on). This was obviously viewed as a rich Europeans' getaway.

A lot of Las Vegas residents are none too happy with how long the construction process and associated disruptions have dragged on for. Especially given that the race won't mean all that much to the average viewer since Max Verstappen has already clinched the season championship. Plus the drivers themselves aren't all too impressed with the track, so there probably won't be much in the way of exciting racing anyway.

Pfft.  F1 race tickets are outrageous anyway, so the cost has nothing to do with attracting American fans one way or another.  See the races that have already been taking place in Texas, for example.  Besides, the Drive to Survive effect on F1 attendance is impervious to ticket prices.

Still, I am loving the geographic ignorance of Europeans coming into play with them obviously not realizing that it gets cold at night in the desert.  Heck, I wonder if they thought they were "avoiding the heat" by holding it at night. :D

Pretty sure they're holding at night to suit the primary fanbase which doesn't like to watch races live at oddball hours, before worrying too much about temperatures. I'm getting too old to watch the races at midnight anymore, but weird hours were part of the TV watching "experience" (not much else competing for eyes at 6am on a Sunday morning).

In any case, if low temps throw any sort of curve into the race planning and outcome, I'm all for it.

I wouldn't be surprised if having all the lights on the Strip as a backdrop wasn't also part of it.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

Bruce


jeffandnicole

Quote from: formulanone on November 15, 2023, 11:40:37 AM
The alternative is to run it in the Caesar's Palace parking lot, which they used for 1981-82, and later used for Indy cars for another two years. Effectively, Miami's GP uses a parking lot area for much of its track, although literally in the shadow of Florida's Turnpike's ramps.

That parking lot is long gone, and was kinda an exaggeration anyway. Part of the track went thru a portion of the parking lot, but most of the track utilized an empty desert lot north of Caesars between I-15 & Las Vegas Blvd.  You can view the track on www.historicaerials.com, go to the Caesars area on the Strip, and click on 1983.

Vegas underwent a huge growth spurt in the late 1980s and 1990s.

Today, that parking lot doesn't exist. The Forum at Caesars Shopping Mall is there, along with a large parking garage. The empty lot is now where The Mirage is located.

Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: Big John on November 15, 2023, 04:53:28 AM
Hmm they conveniently left that part out.  It said organizers and hotels were trying to charge exorbitant rares and needed to greatly reduce prices due to lack of demand.

The economic benefits/costs of F1 are being questioned by some as the date approaches.

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/as-vegas-f1-race-approaches-questions-loom-over-lofty-economic-projections

kalvado

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on November 16, 2023, 05:38:54 AM
Quote from: Big John on November 15, 2023, 04:53:28 AM
Hmm they conveniently left that part out.  It said organizers and hotels were trying to charge exorbitant rares and needed to greatly reduce prices due to lack of demand.

The economic benefits/costs of F1 are being questioned by some as the date approaches.

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/as-vegas-f1-race-approaches-questions-loom-over-lofty-economic-projections
Looks like many large scale events are no longer that big of an economic boost they used to be (if they actually were)
Olympics are often coming into discussion as an example of such event.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2023, 06:02:41 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on November 16, 2023, 05:38:54 AM
Quote from: Big John on November 15, 2023, 04:53:28 AM
Hmm they conveniently left that part out.  It said organizers and hotels were trying to charge exorbitant rares and needed to greatly reduce prices due to lack of demand.

The economic benefits/costs of F1 are being questioned by some as the date approaches.

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/as-vegas-f1-race-approaches-questions-loom-over-lofty-economic-projections
Looks like many large scale events are no longer that big of an economic boost they used to be (if they actually were)
Olympics are often coming into discussion as an example of such event.

I'd argue they often never were the economic boost touted. Cities love to say events bring big money to cities, and there's something to be said for successful events leaving an impression on visitors that may encourage them to travel to the city. But by in large, many events are hyped at first then prices fall. Locals may not come out at much. Well known tourist spots and restaurants may see a boost in revenue, but the smaller places visited by locals often see drops. And even restaurants and bars that are popular to begin with, you're not going to make much more money if they're already filled or booked nornally.

And these are events with facilities already in place. Vegas has been a construction zone for several months. Not really the impression first time and occasional visitors want to see where they get no benefit, and have to deal with other inconveniences.

formulanone

Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 16, 2023, 07:18:31 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2023, 06:02:41 AM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on November 16, 2023, 05:38:54 AM
Quote from: Big John on November 15, 2023, 04:53:28 AM
Hmm they conveniently left that part out.  It said organizers and hotels were trying to charge exorbitant rares and needed to greatly reduce prices due to lack of demand.

The economic benefits/costs of F1 are being questioned by some as the date approaches.

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/as-vegas-f1-race-approaches-questions-loom-over-lofty-economic-projections
Looks like many large scale events are no longer that big of an economic boost they used to be (if they actually were)
Olympics are often coming into discussion as an example of such event.

I'd argue they often never were the economic boost touted. Cities love to say events bring big money to cities, and there's something to be said for successful events leaving an impression on visitors that may encourage them to travel to the city. But by in large, many events are hyped at first then prices fall. Locals may not come out at much. Well known tourist spots and restaurants may see a boost in revenue, but the smaller places visited by locals often see drops. And even restaurants and bars that are popular to begin with, you're not going to make much more money if they're already filled or booked nornally.

And these are events with facilities already in place. Vegas has been a construction zone for several months. Not really the impression first time and occasional visitors want to see where they get no benefit, and have to deal with other inconveniences.

I think the economic boost claim is always a slow-growth projection, at best. Which makes sense for a nation / region / city looking to have revitalization through years of tourism. But Las Vegas is already quite well established as a tourist and travel destination, so it really doesn't make too much sense. I guess someone realized there was a gap just before Thanksgiving when they realized not too many conventions and events were occurring, so they figured they might capitalize on foreign tourists because it is not typically their holiday time spent with family instead of vacationing. (Yes, I'm aware there are folks who don't meet for Thanksgiving and take advantage of the quieter tourist draws.)

It's probably much less expensive and headache-inducing to just work with an ad agency and blitz the media with advertising than put on an F1 race. But nobody is wowed by that.

Rothman

Pfft.  When big events are sold as economic boosters, it's definitely not sold to the public as slow-growth and at least strongly implied, if not stated outright, that the influx of visitors and other workers supporting the event are going to be opening their wallets to the community.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

formulanone

Quote from: Rothman on November 16, 2023, 08:38:17 AM
Pfft.  When big events are sold as economic boosters, it's definitely not sold to the public as slow-growth and at least strongly implied, if not stated outright, that the influx of visitors and other workers supporting the event are going to be opening their wallets to the community.

No kidding. We know it's a charlatan's idea that it would pay itself off immediately, but realistically, that's rarely the case. 

jeffandnicole

Vegas is hosting the Super Bowl in February. That may be a bigger economic booster than this race, at a lower cost and much less disruption. The main facilities are already in place (granted, they were just built with Vegas getting a SB in mind, which cost a pretty penny). Way more people will watch the game, with numerous shots of Vegas, than will watch the F1.  Costs certainly go up: Police & security is one of the most costly expenditures. And there's a lot of planning involved - city officials have no doubt visited other cities which hosted Superbowls to understand their experiences and unexpected issues and costs.

Obviously most people know about Vegas already. This just keeps it on their minds as they prepare for vacations later in the year.

Vegas is no Jacksonville FL. They're used to big events. This is just on a different scale.

SSR_317

Quote from: US 89 on November 15, 2023, 09:20:33 AM
I was going to say, isn't it this weekend?

Potentially a bigger issue will be the weather. The race will start at 10 pm local time so that it can be shown on morning TV in Europe, which will likely make for the coldest F1 race in history. There will also be a threat for substantial amounts of rain during the race and on the days leading up to it.

Honestly I feel like F1 is getting exactly what they asked for here. Clearly the goal was not to cater to the American fans or get more Americans into F1 with a hyped up race in Vegas. Otherwise 1) pricing would have been a bit more affordable and 2) they could have easily had the race in the early morning, which would make for afternoon viewing in Europe and morning viewing in the rest of the US (when F1 is usually on). This was obviously viewed as a rich Europeans' getaway.

A lot of Las Vegas residents are none too happy with how long the construction process and associated disruptions have dragged on for. Especially given that the race won't mean all that much to the average viewer since Max Verstappen has already clinched the season championship. Plus the drivers themselves aren't all too impressed with the track, so there probably won't be much in the way of exciting racing anyway.

Formula One does not care about American race fans. That has been obvious for decades now. As for "exciting racing", that is an oxymoron when it comes to F1. The series is and has been little more than a way for big Eurobanks to launder mega-wealthy people's money for some time now.

The TRUE "world champion" of auto racing is the winner of the NTT INDYCAR Series. We may not have races outside of North America, but we have the most competitive major racing series on the planet and most of the best, and certainly the most versatile, drivers in it! Nothing against F1 drivers, they certainly have talent (for the most part). But many drivers who used to race there and are now part of INDYCAR say the atmosphere and the racing over here is better.

Rothman

Quote from: SSR_317 on November 16, 2023, 05:10:16 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 15, 2023, 09:20:33 AM
I was going to say, isn't it this weekend?

Potentially a bigger issue will be the weather. The race will start at 10 pm local time so that it can be shown on morning TV in Europe, which will likely make for the coldest F1 race in history. There will also be a threat for substantial amounts of rain during the race and on the days leading up to it.

Honestly I feel like F1 is getting exactly what they asked for here. Clearly the goal was not to cater to the American fans or get more Americans into F1 with a hyped up race in Vegas. Otherwise 1) pricing would have been a bit more affordable and 2) they could have easily had the race in the early morning, which would make for afternoon viewing in Europe and morning viewing in the rest of the US (when F1 is usually on). This was obviously viewed as a rich Europeans' getaway.

A lot of Las Vegas residents are none too happy with how long the construction process and associated disruptions have dragged on for. Especially given that the race won't mean all that much to the average viewer since Max Verstappen has already clinched the season championship. Plus the drivers themselves aren't all too impressed with the track, so there probably won't be much in the way of exciting racing anyway.

Formula One does not care about American race fans. That has been obvious for decades now. As for "exciting racing", that is an oxymoron when it comes to F1. The series is and has been little more than a way for big Eurobanks to launder mega-wealthy people's money for some time now.

The TRUE "world champion" of auto racing is the winner of the NTT INDYCAR Series. We may not have races outside of North America, but we have the most competitive major racing series on the planet and most of the best, and certainly the most versatile, drivers in it! Nothing against F1 drivers, they certainly have talent (for the most part). But many drivers who used to race there and are now part of INDYCAR say the atmosphere and the racing over here is better.
Not sure how that laundering works, then.

Didn't Grosjean go to Indy?  Crashing on our side of the pond now...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

gonealookin

The idea has been thrown out there to build a permanent bridge where one of those temporary bridges now stands.

QuoteA temporary Formula One traffic relief measure on Flamingo Road may become a permanent transportation fixture.

Talks are underway between race leaders, Clark County and the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority to build a permanent overpass over Koval Lane in the future.

LVCVA President and CEO Steve Hill, in a briefing on Formula One after Tuesday's LVCVA board meeting, said the temporary bridge structure built in October to provide access to resorts and businesses encircled by the 3.8-mile race circuit has been so successful in moving resort corridor traffic that leaders are considering building a permanent bridge at the site.




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